Where have all the Europas gone?
Discussion
PearlGarden said:
Seems counter intuitive to speculate that a car will depreciate to a set price in order to buy and complain when they don’t. If your buying a car with such financial consideration then it should be a plus point that the Europa hasn’t depreciated. Its lack of depreciation should be looked on as a bonus financially as it means one of the biggest costs in owning a car is negated.
Not being critical of people looking in to the financial aspect of Europa ownership. But its funny how the Europa seems to be a head purchase when most car enthusiast buy these sort of cars with the heart. Be warned though if you get one that can quickly change. Hence why there are not many on the market.
I don't think anyone's complaining...the reality is that despite the talk of 'only 100 in the country!', 'it's a fantastic car get them while you can!' etc ones advertised at the top end of the range (20k+) have tended to remain advertised for a long time. Not being critical of people looking in to the financial aspect of Europa ownership. But its funny how the Europa seems to be a head purchase when most car enthusiast buy these sort of cars with the heart. Be warned though if you get one that can quickly change. Hence why there are not many on the market.
The silver one at 21k looks perfect, it must have been advertised for at least a couple of months now (?) - why hasn't it sold? I think you have to consider the possibility that people aren't prepared to pay that much for one.
Even the 16.5k one and 15.5k one have been around for a while now.
There have been ones that have sold almost immediately, and I suppose there will always been sales like this where the perfect car comes up and where people have their 'heart' set on one. I think for a lot of people though the 'head' aspect of the purchase will often (sadly) have to come into it.
It obviously depends on your circumstances, if you have your 'heart' set on one go for it, I'm sure you'll enjoy the car, owners speak very highly of them. If you're in no rush, and happy to be patient there are other interesting opportunities out there:
21k:
26k: admittedly more money, but on a downward trend
M5Fan said:
It obviously depends on your circumstances, if you have your 'heart' set on one go for it, I'm sure you'll enjoy the car, owners speak very highly of them. If you're in no rush, and happy to be patient there are other interesting opportunities out there:
21k:
26k: admittedly more money, but on a downward trend
More money and 65,000 miles versus 38,000 on the Europa.21k:
26k: admittedly more money, but on a downward trend
More money and more miles but tempting nevertheless. I'm not in the market for either but if I was the Evora would probably take my fancy. I don't believe that Europa prices will stay 'firm' just because of their rarity value. I sort of feel that if they'd really been that good in the first place we'd have seen a lot more of them being sold, which wasn't the case. One could say vastly underestimated or a car that just missed its target. The Evora is marginally different although still far from being a best seller. Perhaps one day Ill have the pleasure of testing them to find out for myself. Either way, interesting times.
M5Fan said:
I don't think anyone's complaining...the reality is that despite the talk of 'only 100 in the country!', 'it's a fantastic car get them while you can!' etc ones advertised at the top end of the range (20k+) have tended to remain advertised for a long time.
The silver one at 21k looks perfect, it must have been advertised for at least a couple of months now (?) - why hasn't it sold? I think you have to consider the possibility that people aren't prepared to pay that much for one.
Even the 16.5k one and 15.5k one have been around for a while now.
There have been ones that have sold almost immediately, and I suppose there will always been sales like this where the perfect car comes up and where people have their 'heart' set on one. I think for a lot of people though the 'head' aspect of the purchase will often (sadly) have to come into it.
It obviously depends on your circumstances, if you have your 'heart' set on one go for it, I'm sure you'll enjoy the car, owners speak very highly of them. If you're in no rush, and happy to be patient there are other interesting opportunities out there:
21k:
26k: admittedly more money, but on a downward trend
In fairnes both the cheaper ones are quite high mileage at 51 & 85k & none have the nicer Lux interior, I had one at 65k that wouldn't sell (so I kept it for myself!) & yet I sold my own 2007 CAT D Europa S 21k with Lux interior & Nitrons for £17500 a few months back.The silver one at 21k looks perfect, it must have been advertised for at least a couple of months now (?) - why hasn't it sold? I think you have to consider the possibility that people aren't prepared to pay that much for one.
Even the 16.5k one and 15.5k one have been around for a while now.
There have been ones that have sold almost immediately, and I suppose there will always been sales like this where the perfect car comes up and where people have their 'heart' set on one. I think for a lot of people though the 'head' aspect of the purchase will often (sadly) have to come into it.
It obviously depends on your circumstances, if you have your 'heart' set on one go for it, I'm sure you'll enjoy the car, owners speak very highly of them. If you're in no rush, and happy to be patient there are other interesting opportunities out there:
21k:
26k: admittedly more money, but on a downward trend
otolith said:
I would have an Evora (though I would also be nervous about the running costs) but not a Europa for the same reason I wouldn't have a VX220T - you can get much the same sort of thing from another Elise derivative without having to put up with a turbocharged engine.
Nothing wrong with a Turbo or the Europa, Running costs for four years running costs were266
843.2
1659.34
282
344.96
276
701.6
75
Which equals to £1,112 per annum, all work was done at a main dealer includes things like tires and brake discs etc (I do not have the break down but no expense was spared for forty odd thousand miles).
The Evora currently has not gone over the £1k per annum and again no expense spared, it will be interesting to see what the overall costs will be at the same millage. would I have another Europa yes I would and the same applies for the Evora both different cars but exceedingly good for different reasons.
otolith said:
I would have an Evora (though I would also be nervous about the running costs) but not a Europa for the same reason I wouldn't have a VX220T - you can get much the same sort of thing from another Elise derivative without having to put up with a turbocharged engine.
Fair point - but the reason I'd consider the Europa is because of the lower sills. The S2 is considerably easier to get in and out of than the S1 because the sills are an inch or two lower - the Europa cuts them a similar amount again. It's a lot more accessible.
For me, at the moment, it's not a problem - hence I'm happy to potter around in an S1. Europa is as close to a step-in-and-go version of the Elise as you're going to get - your (less experienced) passengers would certainly thank you for it.
TBH, accessibility is the only thing that would put me off an Elise in the future - so for me the Europa would be the only logical step.
Toaster said:
Nothing wrong with a Turbo or the Europa, Running costs for four years running costs were
266
843.2
1659.34
282
344.96
276
701.6
75
Which equals to £1,112 per annum, all work was done at a main dealer includes things like tires and brake discs etc (I do not have the break down but no expense was spared for forty odd thousand miles).
The Evora currently has not gone over the £1k per annum and again no expense spared, it will be interesting to see what the overall costs will be at the same millage. would I have another Europa yes I would and the same applies for the Evora both different cars but exceedingly good for different reasons.
I see what he's saying - you don't get the same sort of instant responses with a turbo, and lots of people have complained about the mapping and dead spots on the Europa - something that's not an issue with the Elise. 266
843.2
1659.34
282
344.96
276
701.6
75
Which equals to £1,112 per annum, all work was done at a main dealer includes things like tires and brake discs etc (I do not have the break down but no expense was spared for forty odd thousand miles).
The Evora currently has not gone over the £1k per annum and again no expense spared, it will be interesting to see what the overall costs will be at the same millage. would I have another Europa yes I would and the same applies for the Evora both different cars but exceedingly good for different reasons.
I don't really know what it is about the Evora - or other 'expensive' cars; I happily spent £4k on my Elise in 2 years, and doubt an Evora would ever cost that. Then again, I also feel that's my Elise sorted for the forseeable future: engine, dampers, cooling, bodywork, interior.
I think an overhaul of the Evora would cost a scary amount more - even just consumables like tyres and brakes cost a lot more and it all adds up. Add petrol to the mix too...
I do like them though.
pthelazyjourno said:
I see what he's saying - you don't get the same sort of instant responses with a turbo, and lots of people have complained about the mapping and dead spots on the Europa - something that's not an issue with the Elise.
I don't really know what it is about the Evora - or other 'expensive' cars; I happily spent £4k on my Elise in 2 years, and doubt an Evora would ever cost that. Then again, I also feel that's my Elise sorted for the forseeable future: engine, dampers, cooling, bodywork, interior.
I think an overhaul of the Evora would cost a scary amount more - even just consumables like tyres and brakes cost a lot more and it all adds up. Add petrol to the mix too...
I do like them though.
I cant disagree with what you are saying, I did not find a real flat spot maybe I was lucky, I also agree a overhaul would be more money but in the Evora's defence the brakes and discs last much longer and many of the components such as the front wishbones are aluminium rear tyres are currently on MyTyres are £203.20 and last between about 7,000 and 14,000 miles. The Europa tyres last unto 18,000 miles and I was paying a similar price. On a run 38-40 mpg for the Europa and 30-32 for the Evora. So some costs are not much different (although base servicing is a bit more although the C service on a K series @ around £550 is almost as much as a Evora 4th year/36000 £634 )I don't really know what it is about the Evora - or other 'expensive' cars; I happily spent £4k on my Elise in 2 years, and doubt an Evora would ever cost that. Then again, I also feel that's my Elise sorted for the forseeable future: engine, dampers, cooling, bodywork, interior.
I think an overhaul of the Evora would cost a scary amount more - even just consumables like tyres and brakes cost a lot more and it all adds up. Add petrol to the mix too...
I do like them though.
There's no lag on my Europa, there wasn't before Courtenays mapped but I understand there have been a few with bad mapping, but its easily sorted now. I love the delivery of the Turbo compared to the S/C Exige I had, feels way faster!
Each to their own though, it'd be a sad old world if we all liked the same car & getting spares for my Europa would be a feckin nightmare!!
Each to their own though, it'd be a sad old world if we all liked the same car & getting spares for my Europa would be a feckin nightmare!!
junks said:
There's no lag on my Europa, there wasn't before Courtenays mapped but I understand there have been a few with bad mapping, but its easily sorted now. I love the delivery of the Turbo compared to the S/C Exige I had, feels way faster!
Me too!Not sure about the having to put up with a turbocharged engine quote, but I like the engine in my car. It has got plenty of torque making it lovely to drive. My friend who has a S/C Exige has taken it out and loves how it pulls from no revs.
I was having a good nosey around an Evora at Goodwood FOS - nice, I liked it.
But my car hasn't really depreciated at this time where the Evora seems to have lost lots of money.
Weirdly I was disappointed by the Evora boot! I know there is space behind the seats, but I was expecting something bigger. The rest looked lovely.
Chugga Boom said:
But my car hasn't really depreciated at this time where the Evora seems to have lost lots of money.
.
In 2007 you could pick a Europa up for £21K so they lost a lot of money in the early days but I suspect cars with higher millage will decline maybe slower than the Elise but will decline but the same applys to the Evora its just about average depreciation for cars such as Mercedes of similar value i suspect Evora's with lower milage may harden around hi ish 20's lowish 30's they are heck of a car and like the Europa slightly underrated .
simpo555 said:
More money and more miles but tempting nevertheless. I'm not in the market for either but if I was the Evora would probably take my fancy. I don't believe that Europa prices will stay 'firm' just because of their rarity value. I sort of feel that if they'd really been that good in the first place we'd have seen a lot more of them being sold, which wasn't the case. One could say vastly underestimated or a car that just missed its target. The Evora is marginally different although still far from being a best seller. Perhaps one day Ill have the pleasure of testing them to find out for myself. Either way, interesting times.
yes, just like the 340r... errI believe the Lotus plan for the Europa was to sell about 400 units, which they pretty much did. The 340R was another car that wasn’t designed to be mass-produced thus neither car was designed to be a mass production success. I guess the logistics behind these things are not as clear-cut as simply, supply the demand. The Europa was poorly received and it didn’t need to be well advertised, as the intention wasn’t to make thousands of units. They are kind of in demand now, which is why they are not depreciating.
As for the turbo comments. I test-drove several Elise variants and a couple of VX220s. The Europa had more low down torque than any of the Elises even without the turbo coming in to play.
The turbo makes for a very quick car without needing to scream the b
k out of the engine, as in say 111R, to make quick progress. Which means you can enjoy it on normal roads without looking a ttt. When the turbo comes in, it is not a delicacy, but a wow moment. Its not linear and doesn’t feel controlled and generally needs committing too, Its out of character for an Elise track style car, but it does make me chuckle and is rewarding when you get it right. It’s a bit of a schoolboy edge to what is a refined Elise. Anyone wanting repeatable linear power delivery should save some money and buy an MX5.
As for the turbo comments. I test-drove several Elise variants and a couple of VX220s. The Europa had more low down torque than any of the Elises even without the turbo coming in to play.
The turbo makes for a very quick car without needing to scream the b
k out of the engine, as in say 111R, to make quick progress. Which means you can enjoy it on normal roads without looking a ttt. When the turbo comes in, it is not a delicacy, but a wow moment. Its not linear and doesn’t feel controlled and generally needs committing too, Its out of character for an Elise track style car, but it does make me chuckle and is rewarding when you get it right. It’s a bit of a schoolboy edge to what is a refined Elise. Anyone wanting repeatable linear power delivery should save some money and buy an MX5.Edited by PearlGarden on Thursday 22 November 12:12
I went from an Elise S1 to a Europa S 225, once the novelty of a new car wore off I was very disappointed and sold it after about 8 months. The engine mapping was terrible, the brakes were decidedly average and the understeer when pushed was dull. I didn't lose money on it probably because it was a really low mileage one in a good colour. I liked the looks but I wouldn't have another one. Once the evora's get to mid twenties prices will drop on Europa's except maybe ultra low mile good spec examples.
Ducks for cover..
Ducks for cover..
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