s2000 to Lotus - what's going to hit the spot
Discussion
Hi
New to this bit of Pistonheads as I currently run an s2000 as a weekend / occasional track car. I have loved every minute of having the Honda and it has never missed a beat - tremendous fun, hugely reliable, and plenty of punch from that amazing engine.
However three years have passed and the itch to upgrade has begun - and I really am sold on the idea of moving up a gear to a Lotus. I've been doing plenty of research into the different specs of Elise S2 and Exige 2 and 3 but I'm interested to get your thoughts on what kind of engine and spec car is really going to feel like a big step up in power, fun and thrills from the old 9000rpm Honda Vtech?
I've not driven an Elise yet but I've seen what they can do on the track, and I'm sure the cooking model is a blast - but if I'm looking to spend 20k on something I want it to feel like a real move up from the S.
all thoughts welcome
ETA - feel free to point me to some examples in the classifieds to illustrate your point!
New to this bit of Pistonheads as I currently run an s2000 as a weekend / occasional track car. I have loved every minute of having the Honda and it has never missed a beat - tremendous fun, hugely reliable, and plenty of punch from that amazing engine.
However three years have passed and the itch to upgrade has begun - and I really am sold on the idea of moving up a gear to a Lotus. I've been doing plenty of research into the different specs of Elise S2 and Exige 2 and 3 but I'm interested to get your thoughts on what kind of engine and spec car is really going to feel like a big step up in power, fun and thrills from the old 9000rpm Honda Vtech?
I've not driven an Elise yet but I've seen what they can do on the track, and I'm sure the cooking model is a blast - but if I'm looking to spend 20k on something I want it to feel like a real move up from the S.
all thoughts welcome
ETA - feel free to point me to some examples in the classifieds to illustrate your point!
Edited by krunchkin on Sunday 22 June 12:00
Your budget should get you a Honda'd S1...best of both worlds IMO-the amazing engine (I'd do it to mine if I had the means) plus one of the best handling sports cars on the planet.
I've not got much experience with the Toyota engines so I can't comment, but for character and "thrash me" mentality it would also be worth looking at something like a S2 Sport 190 with a K-Series VHPD engine.
I've not got much experience with the Toyota engines so I can't comment, but for character and "thrash me" mentality it would also be worth looking at something like a S2 Sport 190 with a K-Series VHPD engine.
Edited by itcaptainslow on Sunday 22 June 12:52
It rather depends on you. You might be happy with the lowest powered cars because, despite being much less powerful than the S2000, the chassis more than makes up for it. Alternatively you might miss the straight line performance and drama of the S2000, in which case you'd probably want a 111R/R (similar engine character and performance) or supercharged car (faster but arguably not as exciting in its delivery).
The K-series powered cars are arguably more "pure" to drive (no brake servo, etc.), but unless you can find a Sport 190 (rare and can be costly to run), slower than the more powerful Toyotas. My favourite Elise as a daily driver is the S2 111S, but as a weekend car you're in a rather different position.
The best of all worlds really is a Honda K20 converted K-series car, with or without a supercharger depending on what you can find and how much performance you want. Supercharged K20 cars typically run around 400 bhp/tonne. They're rare, though, and you're always a bit at the mercy of how well it's been converted and looked after.
The K-series powered cars are arguably more "pure" to drive (no brake servo, etc.), but unless you can find a Sport 190 (rare and can be costly to run), slower than the more powerful Toyotas. My favourite Elise as a daily driver is the S2 111S, but as a weekend car you're in a rather different position.
The best of all worlds really is a Honda K20 converted K-series car, with or without a supercharger depending on what you can find and how much performance you want. Supercharged K20 cars typically run around 400 bhp/tonne. They're rare, though, and you're always a bit at the mercy of how well it's been converted and looked after.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 22 June 18:19
I test drove an S2000 before I bought my Elise S2 111S and to be honest it totally depends on you - people vary in both what they think is quick but also in what way the car delivers the performance. The S2000 I drove (brand new demo from a dealer) felt quite slow compared with the 111S, but on paper it should be similar - the difference was of course just my subjective feelings on low down torque vs revs and power. The best thing to do is to drive an Elise (any sort will do) and then I reckon you'll know, plus you'll know how much the feedback and ride/handling make up for the lack of power (for me this has changed over the years and now, after two years racing single seaters, road cars are almost all about the feedback and handling). If it was me in your shoes I'd be looking at an Elise SC (if the earlier ones are within budget now?).
otolith said:
Factory SC cars still seem to be low to mid twenties.
Thanks - I didn't have time to check earlier. The SC's a fantastic car. I kept my Elise S2 111S for years and quite a few friends of mine have bought Elises and done the same (one still has his 1996 S1 and drives it regularly!), so it's worth spending a bit more initially if the OP thinks he may end up falling for his Elise as we did. There's nothing else available that drives anywhere near as well but is still daily usable. Everyone's different though - the OP may end up hating it! Test drive time I think 
otolith said:
It is not with an entirely academic interest that I'm watching the prices - not that I'll be in a position to change any time soon.
I've driven quite a few different Elises and Exiges and for me, the best two for road use have been the Elise S2 111S and the Elise SC. I'm a fan of flexible engines in road cars, which partly explains that choice Flexibility out of the optimum rev range is good, but I think there comes a level of performance where there is sufficient that it doesn't matter. My Elise's 50-70 in top figure is pretty much the same as my wife's 350Z's. A 220 bhp/ton only matching a 180bhp/ton car is evidence of a relative lack of flexibility, but in absolute terms I find them both adequate. I should imagine that my engine in a Corolla or Celica is pretty unpleasant, though.
I've had a B&C 160 S1 Elise, an S2 111S, a failed attempt at an NA Exige and a SC Exige (aftermarket SC so 240 ish bhp rather than 220).
The SC Exige has a nice balance of useful performance without some of the lagging irritation of the NA car. It also gives enough performance for the looks of the car. Yes, any variant of the Elise/Exige is fun, but I grew annoyed at some of the earlier cars in certain circumstances. The SC Exige never has a flat spot or falls short IMO.
If the budget allows, I'd not opt for a lesser powered car. They might be purer, or be able to H&T perfectly or whatever, but all variations of the S1 and S2 (never driven an S3 to judge) are pure enough that any dilution of purity is modest to the point that the benefits far outweigh such minute differences, many of which can be resolved to some extent with some choice modifications.
The SC Exige has a nice balance of useful performance without some of the lagging irritation of the NA car. It also gives enough performance for the looks of the car. Yes, any variant of the Elise/Exige is fun, but I grew annoyed at some of the earlier cars in certain circumstances. The SC Exige never has a flat spot or falls short IMO.
If the budget allows, I'd not opt for a lesser powered car. They might be purer, or be able to H&T perfectly or whatever, but all variations of the S1 and S2 (never driven an S3 to judge) are pure enough that any dilution of purity is modest to the point that the benefits far outweigh such minute differences, many of which can be resolved to some extent with some choice modifications.
I sold my S2000 to get back into a lotus. I loved so many things about the Honda, but also could not get to grips with the numb steering feels.
Once you've owned a lotus, you will find it exceptionally difficult to tolerate any other car. If your someone who really appreciates what driving is all about, then you will love any lotus I'd expect. I've never owned one of the lesser powered models, probably because I came from bigger powered cars. However, I have driven them, and despite lower power outputs, they are still a lot of fun to drive, and can get you into trouble quite quickly. People generally refer to them as the slower of models, but they are by no means slow.
You really need to try a selection, see what's going to suit. But going back to power, with you being used to 240 in the honda, you may need to look at the SC cars. I owned the Elise SC, s3, woth the 2zz engine, and I cannot fault it. It's considerably quicker than your honda, and the level of feedback is close to perfection. You can happily poodle about town, and it will take it in it's stride.
One thing I would recommend. If you do go for one, and it's a road car, opt for the non sports suspension. I had the softer set up on mine, for the road it was spot on, on track too soft, but if your like me, 1-2 TRACKDAYS per year, I'd rather steer my set up to road.
I now have an exige, reason why, I wanted more power than the SC elise could give me. Thought a up the honda route, but what I would have spent, I'd have been as well with the exige, which I can mod as I go, which is part of the fun.
You'll need a bit more than 20k for an exige just now, but will be pretty close to the first SC Elise's
Whatever you choose, you won't be disappointed. My days of non lotus in my garage are over.
It's an addiction.
Once you've owned a lotus, you will find it exceptionally difficult to tolerate any other car. If your someone who really appreciates what driving is all about, then you will love any lotus I'd expect. I've never owned one of the lesser powered models, probably because I came from bigger powered cars. However, I have driven them, and despite lower power outputs, they are still a lot of fun to drive, and can get you into trouble quite quickly. People generally refer to them as the slower of models, but they are by no means slow.
You really need to try a selection, see what's going to suit. But going back to power, with you being used to 240 in the honda, you may need to look at the SC cars. I owned the Elise SC, s3, woth the 2zz engine, and I cannot fault it. It's considerably quicker than your honda, and the level of feedback is close to perfection. You can happily poodle about town, and it will take it in it's stride.
One thing I would recommend. If you do go for one, and it's a road car, opt for the non sports suspension. I had the softer set up on mine, for the road it was spot on, on track too soft, but if your like me, 1-2 TRACKDAYS per year, I'd rather steer my set up to road.
I now have an exige, reason why, I wanted more power than the SC elise could give me. Thought a up the honda route, but what I would have spent, I'd have been as well with the exige, which I can mod as I go, which is part of the fun.
You'll need a bit more than 20k for an exige just now, but will be pretty close to the first SC Elise's
Whatever you choose, you won't be disappointed. My days of non lotus in my garage are over.
It's an addiction.
otolith said:
Yes, they do have that effect - latest hot hatch has 300bhp - meh. Don't care.
Ain't that the truth. I thought TVR's kept me coming back. Couldn't get away from them. Then I discovered Elises/Exiges. The only issue now is that I keep upping the bhp and now I cannot see beyond as to what can replace it. It's just too good.
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