Lotus; where to start
Discussion
Havoc856 said:
Must admit, my thoughts on the matter are mirrored in the posts above.
Coming from a very well sorted 400bhp Hot Hatch to an Elise to satisfy an itch I've had since i put up a poster of the Motorsports Elise on my wall....
I love the packaging, handling and aesthetics of both S1 and S2 Elises, but seriously concerned about the power side of things, due to my forging a path into the higher output hot hatches.
I'm tempted to get an S2 111S K-Series thats either been fettled by DVA or take it to DVA for some cams, Larini Clubsport exhaust and intake.
Saying that the S1 Sport 160s are rather nice... But not really suited to daily drivers.
111R would certainly be 'future proof' for me, as i'd lump on a Lotus charger when the power got samely....
I understand that in normal conditions there is very little to separate the 111S and 111R on the road due to the differing power delivery. I do go on track, but not more than 4-6 times a year.
I find it very difficult to decide which i'm path to take.... But i know i want either a black or dark grey one!
There are plenty of lowish mileage S1 118bhp cars about for reasonable prices and having read the DVA site that seems a good way to go however, you are then ditching a perfectly good low mileage engine (or parts of it). Would the upgrades reflect badly on any resale or just limit your market?Coming from a very well sorted 400bhp Hot Hatch to an Elise to satisfy an itch I've had since i put up a poster of the Motorsports Elise on my wall....
I love the packaging, handling and aesthetics of both S1 and S2 Elises, but seriously concerned about the power side of things, due to my forging a path into the higher output hot hatches.
I'm tempted to get an S2 111S K-Series thats either been fettled by DVA or take it to DVA for some cams, Larini Clubsport exhaust and intake.
Saying that the S1 Sport 160s are rather nice... But not really suited to daily drivers.
111R would certainly be 'future proof' for me, as i'd lump on a Lotus charger when the power got samely....
I understand that in normal conditions there is very little to separate the 111S and 111R on the road due to the differing power delivery. I do go on track, but not more than 4-6 times a year.
I find it very difficult to decide which i'm path to take.... But i know i want either a black or dark grey one!
Edited by Havoc856 on Saturday 27th December 20:41
If I went for a bog standard S1 118BHP. What would be needed to bring it up to say 160bhp and any idea of cost. Ideally I would like to avoid going for a SC or turbo. Is this possible for a reasonable power hike. What is the maximum you can expect sticking to NA upgrades on the stock 118bhp engine.
Once again many thanks for all your help guys
Once again many thanks for all your help guys
Gooby said:
Before you start with the willy waving power numbers etc, perhaps you should do a few Walshy days and learn how to use the power properly with some skill.
Sorry Gooby, an Elise is the last of my cars I would be using for willy waving power figures. What makes you think I don't know how to drive and need tuition on this front??? Thanks for your input 
Gooby said:
Before you start with the willy waving power numbers etc, perhaps you should do a few Walshy days and learn how to use the power properly with some skill.
A bit uncalled for I'd say.having ran various TVRs myself, an Elise with (only) 118bhp may feel a little underpowered, lighter yes and more nimble almost certainly but the bhp/weight ratio would still exist.
My Caterham with a crossflow in it had 135bhp in a lighter car, and that was 15 year ago.
I don't think it's phrased very well by the other poster, but there are very few people who are new to Lotus who wouldn't benefit from doing a Walshy day shortly after buying the car. I certainly would have and I plan to book another one this year. The car has a very short wheelbase and quite a high centre of gravity, especially the S2 exige. This means that it's rather twitchy at the limit. Looking at your garage, with all due respect, I don't think that an Elise platform car will have the same handling characteristics as the 911s you are used to and I would presume that these also have a whole raft of stability and other electronic systems which are entirely absent in most Lotus. Unless you buy a V6 Exige or an Evora you won't have much more than ABS and traction control (at most).
In reply to your original post, I'd buy the latest S2 exige that you can get for your budget. I bought a 2008 Sprint 3 years ago for 27k, have done almost 10,000 miles in it and could sell it for the same price now - although I've spent a reasonable amount on it in mods in the meantime. If you can stretch a bit further the 260 cups seem to only be going one way in price at the moment. The 240PP cars are definitely worth looking out for as, aside from the power uplift, they come with 4 pot APs, full length roof scoop and some other nice bits and pieces. Also make it cheaper to do the 260 upgrade as the come with the 'correct' injectors - which, whatever model you get, is well worth doing.
In reply to your original post, I'd buy the latest S2 exige that you can get for your budget. I bought a 2008 Sprint 3 years ago for 27k, have done almost 10,000 miles in it and could sell it for the same price now - although I've spent a reasonable amount on it in mods in the meantime. If you can stretch a bit further the 260 cups seem to only be going one way in price at the moment. The 240PP cars are definitely worth looking out for as, aside from the power uplift, they come with 4 pot APs, full length roof scoop and some other nice bits and pieces. Also make it cheaper to do the 260 upgrade as the come with the 'correct' injectors - which, whatever model you get, is well worth doing.
If you've had more powerful cars it doesnt matter if you jump into a 118bhp Elise. Its a totally different type of experience. Most properly fast cars are pretty crap to drive on the road. Stiff suspension, no steering feel, cost a fortune to run etc. This does happen within the lotus range as well. I think the Elise SC is probably the best road car for those wanting power. Toyota 134 if you just want a good reliable road car and S1 if you like the styling better and like spanners. There are lots of other wonderful options inbetween but the Exiges can start getting a bit hardcore for the road the further up you go.
Richie200 said:
Gooby said:
Before you start with the willy waving power numbers etc, perhaps you should do a few Walshy days and learn how to use the power properly with some skill.
Sorry Gooby, an Elise is the last of my cars I would be using for willy waving power figures. What makes you think I don't know how to drive and need tuition on this front??? Thanks for your input I have a 520bhp V10 M5 and I have recently been driving a 650bhp Merc AMG SL. None of which a decent set up for driving a liz. Tuition from an ex F1 driver will allow you to exploit the elise. Not only is it fun it will teach you how to drive an elise / exige or any other car. Cross country the liz is faster as long as you can exploit the elise. If you think you are so good that you can't learn from Walshy then you are an incredible driver and you are not only barking up the wrong tree, you are in the wrong woods because there is nothing you could learn here. Walshy tuition is so good my brother comes over from California for it. He races Porsches as a hobby.
Over the years so many have turned up with "I want more power" blah blah blah. A few have stacked them shortly after. Sod the engine, more power does not really make the car more fun. If you want the best from a liz, then learn to drive it. Pretty soon you will figure the best upgrade is to the driver then suspension, then start the power hikes and brakes. The bottom line is induction / zorst kits do very little. You will want a supercharger and then if you are still serious an engine swap for (probably) a honda lump with a SC is the way to go.
Drag racing an Elise? oh god. Stick to your over powered shopping cart, and carry on reading max muppet. It would be far cheaper to go buy an old subaru WRX (at least the chassis is good) for 3-4k then stick a big turbo and a dump valve so you can make "Psssst" noises at the pub.
You are welcome for my input.
Gooby said:
Richie200 said:
Gooby said:
Before you start with the willy waving power numbers etc, perhaps you should do a few Walshy days and learn how to use the power properly with some skill.
Sorry Gooby, an Elise is the last of my cars I would be using for willy waving power figures. What makes you think I don't know how to drive and need tuition on this front??? Thanks for your input I have a 520bhp V10 M5 and I have recently been driving a 650bhp Merc AMG SL. None of which a decent set up for driving a liz. Tuition from an ex F1 driver will allow you to exploit the elise. Not only is it fun it will teach you how to drive an elise / exige or any other car. Cross country the liz is faster as long as you can exploit the elise. If you think you are so good that you can't learn from Walshy then you are an incredible driver and you are not only barking up the wrong tree, you are in the wrong woods because there is nothing you could learn here. Walshy tuition is so good my brother comes over from California for it. He races Porsches as a hobby.
Over the years so many have turned up with "I want more power" blah blah blah. A few have stacked them shortly after. Sod the engine, more power does not really make the car more fun. If you want the best from a liz, then learn to drive it. Pretty soon you will figure the best upgrade is to the driver then suspension, then start the power hikes and brakes. The bottom line is induction / zorst kits do very little. You will want a supercharger and then if you are still serious an engine swap for (probably) a honda lump with a SC is the way to go.
Drag racing an Elise? oh god. Stick to your over powered shopping cart, and carry on reading max muppet. It would be far cheaper to go buy an old subaru WRX (at least the chassis is good) for 3-4k then stick a big turbo and a dump valve so you can make "Psssst" noises at the pub.
You are welcome for my input.
However I can now see why there is a thread here regarding why this place has lost it's soul. I don't know what you are on about with a 400bhp shopping trolley or any of the other offensives slurs you have chosen to use. What Non Lotus cars you have or have driven, is not really of any concern to the question in hand. I have no idea who Walshy is that you refer to. Any professional driver tuition is obviously of benefit to anyone who wants to improve their driving specific to whatever platform is new to them. I have driven many circuits along side Lotus cars and from my experience they are superb cars in many areas but like every car they also have their flaws. Power is a major concern for me as my local tracks are the Nordschliefe (40mins away), Spa and Hockenheim (both around 1hr 20mins). These are all big power circuits not suited to an Elise. Many here have suggested the base S1 car is the one to have so based on this advice and the fact that I like to build and set-up my own track cars; twirling the spanners on the S1 to suit my requirements seems a logical cause of action to take.
If you had taken the trouble to investigate my GT3RS shopping trolley you may have realised that you couldn't be any further away with your ridiculous derogatory Max Power comments.
Please lighten up and don't judge people, it really doesn't come across very well on a public forum
zebra said:
Lee, loved your S1. Was a stunning little car, sounded pretty damn good too.
How are you finding the S2?
Hello buddy, long time no speak! Well, I've not really had much chance to use it yet, bought it at the end of october and it needs a bit of sorting (got it cheap!) Needs suspension refresh and a new set of tyres for starters. I'll be doing that in April! It's a 2002 S2 so other than the body there's little difference to my S1. Thay said, the few hours I have been out in it, I've loved it!How are you finding the S2?
You still got the Exige?
Skyedriver said:
Gooby said:
Before you start with the willy waving power numbers etc, perhaps you should do a few Walshy days and learn how to use the power properly with some skill.
A bit uncalled for I'd say.having ran various TVRs myself, an Elise with (only) 118bhp may feel a little underpowered, lighter yes and more nimble almost certainly but the bhp/weight ratio would still exist.
My Caterham with a crossflow in it had 135bhp in a lighter car, and that was 15 year ago.
I've since had an S2 111S and a brief flirtation with a 190 Exige. For the last 3+ years I've had a 240 bhp SC Exige and in my view its the perfect balance of straight line pace and handling brilliance. If you are coming from a fairly underpowered TVR (Chim or Griff 4L for example), the SC cars will feel quick in a straight line as well as the twisties.
lee111s said:
zebra said:
Lee, loved your S1. Was a stunning little car, sounded pretty damn good too.
How are you finding the S2?
Hello buddy, long time no speak! Well, I've not really had much chance to use it yet, bought it at the end of october and it needs a bit of sorting (got it cheap!) Needs suspension refresh and a new set of tyres for starters. I'll be doing that in April! It's a 2002 S2 so other than the body there's little difference to my S1. Thay said, the few hours I have been out in it, I've loved it!How are you finding the S2?
You still got the Exige?
When you get the S2 sorted send me a message.
gashead1105 said:
The car has a very short wheelbase and quite a high centre of gravity, especially the S2 exige. This means that it's rather twitchy at the limit. Looking at your garage, with all due respect, I don't think that an Elise platform car will have the same handling characteristics as the 911s.
Interesting post.I suspect a 996 is probably twitchy too in some aspect.
I was looking at the Exige s2 240 and I didn't think too much about the centre of gravity to be higher than a regular Elise. Can anyone else confirm that?
Richie200 said:
If I went for a bog standard S1 118BHP. What would be needed to bring it up to say 160bhp and any idea of cost. Ideally I would like to avoid going for a SC or turbo. Is this possible for a reasonable power hike. What is the maximum you can expect sticking to NA upgrades on the stock 118bhp engine.
Once again many thanks for all your help guys
Once again many thanks for all your help guys
I'm toying with the idea of fitting one of these at some point. Not an expert and unsure of the performance benefits but i think it looks great. I would expect the sound to be improved as well. Anyone fitted one of these maybe could comment on other updates that go along?
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