Elise vs Caterham?
Discussion
Having owned an Elise for nearly 7 years but driven a Caterham on track and on road before purchase to help me choose between the two I agree with what's been said. Both are excellent cars and in my opinion it comes down to personal preference. I really enjoyed the Caterham on track, more than I enjoy the Elise on track. But on road, the Caterham I hired disappointed a little bit, but the Elise I hired from Sports Car Hire in Shrewsbury felt perfect the moment I drove it. But as I said - it's down to personal preference, driving style and whether predominantly on track or road (for me the latter). I prefer the way the Caterham looks, especially inside, because the Elise cockpit seems empty and plain with no transmission tunnel. I still have a pang of envy when I see inside a Caterham! The deciding factor for me was that the Elise roof could be put on more quickly and it's more bearable with the roof on, and has a boot that locked (important to me as I often have a rucksack containing expensive gear with me). My advice to anyone having to decide between the two is to try them both!
Building a 7 is an itch that's becoming harder and harder to ignore.
I'm also madly obsessed with my S2 Exige and I do appreciate being able to use it in all weathers, and the perceived safety benefits on the road are important to me.
Could I feasibly run a garage with both an S2 and a 7?! 7 would likely be exclusively trailered to track on nicer days, and the Exige relegated to "touring" and winter trackdays.
I'm also madly obsessed with my S2 Exige and I do appreciate being able to use it in all weathers, and the perceived safety benefits on the road are important to me.
Could I feasibly run a garage with both an S2 and a 7?! 7 would likely be exclusively trailered to track on nicer days, and the Exige relegated to "touring" and winter trackdays.
Great thread this. Always fancied a Caterham having had a few goes and it was the car that kicked off the obsession when I rode in one at about ten years old.
I bought an Elise this year to replaced a series of more mainstream sports cars - an Elise feel pretty hardcore to most people BUT it has doors, locks, heater, radio, a pretty much waterproof roof etc which allows you to use it just as a car. I use mine regularly outside of deep winter weather and do shopping, commutes, nursery run etc leaving the diesel estate parked up.
I strongly considered a 7, but it was the things above that discounted it for me. It was a big purchase for me so I easier to justify it the more it's used, I also ultimately didn't feel comfortable putting a small child in a Caterham (he loves the Elise!).
Perhaps if I had a sportier more interesting daily drive, I might justify a 7, but that takes the total budget for both cars right up.
Elise is epic to drive but what I miss though, is the playfulness of front engine rear drive, being able to peel out of T junctions with a bit of lock on etc, as a Caterham (or my previous cars) let you do, and the superb feel of a gear shifter poking from the box into your hand.
If only Lotus had made an Elan Mk3 into the 2000s, engine up front gearbox next to you and LSD at the back but using the manufacturing techniques of the Elise with bonded alloy chassis and GRP body.
Like a Mk3 MX-5 but 300kg lighter. Imagine that!
I bought an Elise this year to replaced a series of more mainstream sports cars - an Elise feel pretty hardcore to most people BUT it has doors, locks, heater, radio, a pretty much waterproof roof etc which allows you to use it just as a car. I use mine regularly outside of deep winter weather and do shopping, commutes, nursery run etc leaving the diesel estate parked up.
I strongly considered a 7, but it was the things above that discounted it for me. It was a big purchase for me so I easier to justify it the more it's used, I also ultimately didn't feel comfortable putting a small child in a Caterham (he loves the Elise!).
Perhaps if I had a sportier more interesting daily drive, I might justify a 7, but that takes the total budget for both cars right up.
Elise is epic to drive but what I miss though, is the playfulness of front engine rear drive, being able to peel out of T junctions with a bit of lock on etc, as a Caterham (or my previous cars) let you do, and the superb feel of a gear shifter poking from the box into your hand.
If only Lotus had made an Elan Mk3 into the 2000s, engine up front gearbox next to you and LSD at the back but using the manufacturing techniques of the Elise with bonded alloy chassis and GRP body.
Like a Mk3 MX-5 but 300kg lighter. Imagine that!
RichardJS said:
But on road, the Caterham I hired disappointed a little bit, but the Elise I hired from Sports Car Hire in Shrewsbury felt perfect the moment I drove it.
It's usually enough to get the Caterham fanbois frothing at the mouth, but (whisper it) the Westfield SEi is actually a better road car: in some ways, it sits between the Elise and the Caterham, having the Caterham's rearward driving position (which makes it much easier to sense yaw) but the Elise's fluidity, as a result of the independent rear suspension. On public roads, the Caterham's pace is too often limited by the de Dion beam rear axle wanting to go hoppity skippety over every slight road imperfection.Neither the Westfield nor the Caterham have anything like the Elise's steering feel, though (the Westfield FW400 did - having completely different steering geometry to the normal Westfield, which is compromised by having been designed around the geometry of the Ford Cortina upright - but the FW400 is a very rare animal indeed).
I never managed to get my SLR to be very nice on the road, it was a bit snatchy at the rear on the limit. The R500 that followed and the 1600 superlight after that both worked much better. I should have done some more setup work on the SLR, but the opportunity for the R500 came along and so I sold it.
Equus said:
a) Do you actually disagree with what I said?
b) If you do, on what actual experience do you base your disagreement, or;
c) Are you you just trolling?
Depends on which part as (in case you didn't spot it) I was actually accusing you of trolling. You say sensible stuff and know a more on the subject than me (probably), but you just can't post without the whole pejorative "Caterham fanbois" type nonsense. So yes, I am calling you out on it as I don't understand why you want to pollute sensible comment and debate with personal stuff. That's why I posted my actual reply to the substance of what you said first.b) If you do, on what actual experience do you base your disagreement, or;
c) Are you you just trolling?
BertBert said:
Equus said:
...Do you actually disagree with what I said?...
Depends on which part ....Equus said:
...(whisper it) the Westfield SEi is actually a better road car: in some ways, it sits between the Elise and the Caterham, having the Caterham's rearward driving position (which makes it much easier to sense yaw) but the Elise's fluidity, as a result of the independent rear suspension. On public roads, the Caterham's pace is too often limited by the de Dion beam rear axle wanting to go hoppity skippety over every slight road imperfection.
So: a) Do you actually disagree with that part of what I said?
b) If you do, on what actual experience do you base your disagreement, or;
c) Are you you just trolling?
I'm sorry, but if you've driven a wide range of IRS and non-IRS Locaterfield-type cars (as I have), it really does go beyond argument that beam rear axles are a noticeable limitation for road use and it's puerile to pretend otherwise.
The Elise has a particularly fine ride:handling balance for road use, so if the OP is moving from an Elise to a Caterham, he will notice the latter's shortcomings in that regard.
Equus said:
If the answer to (a) is 'yes': extra points if you can explain the importance of centres of percussion and sprung:unsprung weight ratio as they apply to the case in point, and tell us who wrote Caterham a note to say that they were exempted from the laws of physics.
I'm sorry, but if you've driven a wide range of IRS and non-IRS Locaterfield-type cars (as I have), it really does go beyond argument that beam rear axles are a noticeable limitation for road use and it's puerile to pretend otherwise.
The Elise has a particularly fine ride:handling balance for road use, so if the OP is moving from an Elise to a Caterham, he will notice the latter's shortcomings in that regard.
Lovely. Did you read any of what I said?I'm sorry, but if you've driven a wide range of IRS and non-IRS Locaterfield-type cars (as I have), it really does go beyond argument that beam rear axles are a noticeable limitation for road use and it's puerile to pretend otherwise.
The Elise has a particularly fine ride:handling balance for road use, so if the OP is moving from an Elise to a Caterham, he will notice the latter's shortcomings in that regard.
BertBert said:
Lovely. Did you read any of what I said?
Yes.which is why I said:
it really does go beyond argument that beam rear axles are a noticeable limitation for road use and it's puerile to pretend otherwise.
You can try bleating that it's nothing more than being down to individual set-up, but you're fooling no-one but yourself.
I had an Exige S2 and had a notion of a Caterham.
Bought an R500 (Duratec and sequential).
Plan was to use it on the road and for hillclimbs.
I couldn't live with it on the road. Lots of reasons including reliability through to noise of the straight-cut gears.
So sold the Caterham in 2019 (new owner is very happy I believe) and bought an Elise Cup 250. I use it all year round and am really happy.
My advice is to scratch an itch but, if you can afford it, hang on to your Lotus.
Bought an R500 (Duratec and sequential).
Plan was to use it on the road and for hillclimbs.
I couldn't live with it on the road. Lots of reasons including reliability through to noise of the straight-cut gears.
So sold the Caterham in 2019 (new owner is very happy I believe) and bought an Elise Cup 250. I use it all year round and am really happy.
My advice is to scratch an itch but, if you can afford it, hang on to your Lotus.
Equus said:
You can try bleating that it's nothing more than being down to individual set-up, but you're fooling no-one but yourself.
For goodness sake man. You are barking up the wrong tree entirely. I'm not bleating about whether the caterham is good or bad or in-between. I'm bleating about the fact that a/ you can't get over it and just wibble on about caterham fanbois at every opportunity and b/ you've tried to reply to me without reading a word I said. I'm still hoping you actually know some technical stuff, because your ability to have logical discourse is sorely lacking.BertBert said:
I'm still hoping you actually know some technical stuff, because your ability to have logical discourse is sorely lacking.
Then you need to read the bulk of what I have said, instead of fixating on one throw-away phrase that you perceived (quite rightly) to apply to yourself.This thread is about the comparative qualities of the Elise vs. Caterham.
One of the most noticeable differences, to even the most blatant numpty, will be ride and handling on imperfect surfaces. We're not talking about subtle shades of distinction; we're talking about night and day, and it's not because an individual model or example of Caterham might have its damping slightly less well set-up than another: in substantial part it's because of the lack of IRS (with all the basic physics that goes along with that), and anyone who has driven an IRS Locaterfield (or an Elise, or an Elan) will be happy to confirm this for you.
Take your head out of the sand, or from whatever other dark region you have it inserted, and admit the simple facts.
Edited by Equus on Friday 17th December 09:46
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