Elise engine conversion: Honda v Duratec
Discussion
Lefty said:
If going Honda, do most people not bother about changing the clocks? Rev counter only goes to 8k...
I have toyota clocks to use although they have a CAN-bus interface so a small embedded system is required to sit in the middle. IIRC Hondata can supply a box of tricks to do the same. Scuffers said:
economicpygmy said:
120kg must be without ancillaries and gearbox.
As above. The Honda K20A2 is around 40kg more than the Rover K 1.8 in the same state.
The reason I measured it was becuase I was sick of reading all the bulls
t.
with ancillaries, no gearbox.As above. The Honda K20A2 is around 40kg more than the Rover K 1.8 in the same state.
The reason I measured it was becuase I was sick of reading all the bulls
t.Gearbox is something like 41Kg's
engine holds just over 5L of oil, gearbox is under 2L
Next problem is your average weighbridge is calibrated to ~20Kg's at best for objects weighing several tonnes, not a light car.
Not saying yours is not that heavy, just that they don's have to be.
barchetta_boy said:
I must be the only person in the world who doesn't like the power delivery from the Honda engine, it just felt a bit gutless to me until the very upper reaches of the rev range, by which point the car sounded like a bandsaw, not a car.
In the end I went for an Elise with a DVA head and ITBs, nice, reliable 180bhp, sounds great. Still a very linear power delivery but a good slug of torque in the midrange.
I think there are some good points to keeping the standard engine but not sure I can understand this. 180bhp Rover K dyno is here:In the end I went for an Elise with a DVA head and ITBs, nice, reliable 180bhp, sounds great. Still a very linear power delivery but a good slug of torque in the midrange.
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/162_188/i...
Even a stock K20A2 has slightly more torque, as you would expect with 200cc extra capacity.
Edited by economicpygmy on Saturday 27th February 18:19
barchetta_boy said:
I must be the only person in the world who doesn't like the power delivery from the Honda engine, it just felt a bit gutless to me until the very upper reaches of the rev range, by which point the car sounded like a bandsaw, not a car.
In the end I went for an Elise with a DVA head and ITBs, nice, reliable 180bhp, sounds great. Still a very linear power delivery but a good slug of torque in the midrange.
I have to agree. I know it is fashionable to love VTEC, but I don't.In the end I went for an Elise with a DVA head and ITBs, nice, reliable 180bhp, sounds great. Still a very linear power delivery but a good slug of torque in the midrange.
danwebster said:
I built a pretty cooking 2l K20 a couple of months back with some hot cams that does 140lb ft at 2000rpm, peaks at 178lb ft and does 250hp at 8200rpm. I think if you find a K20 elise gutless you're not driving the right ones.
I must admit, I've never driven a k20 Elise.I was never a fan of that engine in a Civic though. I much preferred the H22A I had in my Prelude!
Long'un said:
I must admit, I've never driven a k20 Elise.
I was never a fan of that engine in a Civic though...
It feels very different in a car which is half a tonne lighter. I was never a fan of that engine in a Civic though...
As someone pointed out above, the K20 has a fair chunk more torque than any K-series or naturally aspirated Toyota engine they put in the Elise.
kambites said:
It feels very different in a car which is half a tonne lighter.
As someone pointed out above, the K20 has a fair chunk more torque than any K-series or naturally aspirated Toyota engine they put in the Elise.
Yeah, I can imagine!As someone pointed out above, the K20 has a fair chunk more torque than any K-series or naturally aspirated Toyota engine they put in the Elise.
It’s a toss-up between the K20 or Duratec for me.
K20 would cost a fair bit more, but re-sale is somewhat higher.
The car feels like a keeper though.
Long'un said:
Yeah, I can imagine!
It’s a toss-up between the K20 or Duratec for me.
K20 would cost a fair bit more, but re-sale is somewhat higher.
The car feels like a keeper though.
In which case I strongly recommend you drive a good example of each, as they're entirely different beasts. It’s a toss-up between the K20 or Duratec for me.
K20 would cost a fair bit more, but re-sale is somewhat higher.
The car feels like a keeper though.
besides the power, the K20 makes driving a Elise an event. The sound and the slick close ratio gearbox alone are worth the trouble.
a Duratec can be as fast, but it won't "feel" like a Honda ragged to 8000 rpm though the gears.
To use Dan as an Example. Would you prefer this
https://youtu.be/MhqnQDdfd5I?t=25
or this?
https://youtu.be/PDX9TaDiHn8?t=26
The Duractec sound like a powerful Rover K. I like it, but it is not as rev happy or has a as wide power band as a Honda with its VTEC.
Both cooking cars BTW :-)
I'd try both before committing.
a Duratec can be as fast, but it won't "feel" like a Honda ragged to 8000 rpm though the gears.
To use Dan as an Example. Would you prefer this
https://youtu.be/MhqnQDdfd5I?t=25
or this?
https://youtu.be/PDX9TaDiHn8?t=26
The Duractec sound like a powerful Rover K. I like it, but it is not as rev happy or has a as wide power band as a Honda with its VTEC.
Both cooking cars BTW :-)
I'd try both before committing.
The main concern for me about the K20, is that I’ve read a few times that is has spoilt the handling balance of the car?
That would be a big problem for me, as the handling is what impresses me the most!
I’m not sure I could tell with my meagre ability, but I don’t want to make it any more snappy!
I will try and drive both before I make the decision, easier said than done though, both are quite rare beasts.
That would be a big problem for me, as the handling is what impresses me the most!
I’m not sure I could tell with my meagre ability, but I don’t want to make it any more snappy!
I will try and drive both before I make the decision, easier said than done though, both are quite rare beasts.
Hello All,
My first post on here so go easy on me please :-) I am the owner of the blue Elise S1 that is shown in Will_S 's Honda conversion thread. I have just ordered a Stark kit but I have a bit of a dilema. I have an EP3 for a doner but in my shed I also have a K20/K24 Frankenstein engine which i intended to go into the EP3. I don't know whether to put the K20 or the K20/K24 engine in the Elise. Anyone have any thoughts, opinions, etc ?
Dave.
My first post on here so go easy on me please :-) I am the owner of the blue Elise S1 that is shown in Will_S 's Honda conversion thread. I have just ordered a Stark kit but I have a bit of a dilema. I have an EP3 for a doner but in my shed I also have a K20/K24 Frankenstein engine which i intended to go into the EP3. I don't know whether to put the K20 or the K20/K24 engine in the Elise. Anyone have any thoughts, opinions, etc ?
Dave.
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