Exige or Cerbera
Discussion
Oliver - and what Lotus is that you drive then??
olivier has 1 post to his name - clearly trolling on the very boring theme that the elise is under powered
It is not underpowered ! it is not a motorway cruiser either - its a flippin track car that can go on the road ! Horses for courses - and for a lightweight car driven correctly it will clearly blow most cars into the weeds.
end of - anyone who wants 70 - 150 mph acceleration is looking at the wrong car - buy all means buy a HDI if thats your bag ....
Perhaps I should log onto tvr and ask about back seats
It is not underpowered ! it is not a motorway cruiser either - its a flippin track car that can go on the road ! Horses for courses - and for a lightweight car driven correctly it will clearly blow most cars into the weeds.
end of - anyone who wants 70 - 150 mph acceleration is looking at the wrong car - buy all means buy a HDI if thats your bag ....
Perhaps I should log onto tvr and ask about back seats
Gargamel said: olivier has 1 post to his name - clearly trolling on the very boring theme that the elise is under powered
It is not underpowered ! it is not a motorway cruiser either - its a flippin track car that can go on the road!
Although you must admit a rather slow one...
I wouldn't doubt the acceleration times posted by the diesel, oddles of torque very low down, so it may beat an Elise if they were both in top gear.Each engine has a different powerband - so to compare a diesel and a petrol you have to look at where peak power is and what gear peak power is obtained at for any given speed.
So for my Golf 150 diesal TD
236 lbs.ft at a very impressive 1900 rpm, more torque than a Boxter S in fact !
So for a 'like with like' comparison you should not compare an Elise at 50mph in 5th gear with a TD in 5th gear as the TD is in its peak power but the Elise is nowhere near its peak power peak power which is at 4500 rpm.
i.e. to make the comparison fair the Elise would need to be in 3rd gear (therefore both engines using their peak power). In this situation the Elise accelerates from 50 - 70mph in 3.9 seconds.
I am lucky enough to have both cars so I can enjoy the refinement of quick motorway driving (In the TD)without having to drop to 3rd as i would in my Elise.
You pay your money and take your choice.
>> Edited by akd on Thursday 24th October 14:13
So for my Golf 150 diesal TD
236 lbs.ft at a very impressive 1900 rpm, more torque than a Boxter S in fact !
So for a 'like with like' comparison you should not compare an Elise at 50mph in 5th gear with a TD in 5th gear as the TD is in its peak power but the Elise is nowhere near its peak power peak power which is at 4500 rpm.
i.e. to make the comparison fair the Elise would need to be in 3rd gear (therefore both engines using their peak power). In this situation the Elise accelerates from 50 - 70mph in 3.9 seconds.
I am lucky enough to have both cars so I can enjoy the refinement of quick motorway driving (In the TD)without having to drop to 3rd as i would in my Elise.
You pay your money and take your choice.
>> Edited by akd on Thursday 24th October 14:13
Ade - purlease - even allowing for your trying to justify selling your liz because of "performance"
The diesel might beat the elise 50 - 70 - don't even joke about it, you are miles of beam - ffs the bloody thing will only hit 98mph - not 135...
at fifty in top gear (why would I be in top gear) i would be in second gear !! this isn't even an argument
13.1 sec to 62mph - vs 5.2 secs for the elise (111s) or i suppose 6 secs real world - so by the time we both hit 60 I am twice the distance or even slightly more - that won't change between 50 - 70 .... why would accelerate from 50mph in top - its a sports car not a bloody van....
this forum is full of people who actually don't like the elise or don't like what lotus are pushing as a philosophy ... get over it already - it's a light weight low power sports car with the best handling in the business - thats what makes it special and lovable.
Enough from me - I resolve not to post in the lotus forum again - I loved my elise and was gutted when I sold it - this place is populated by people who have either never owned on (and probably never will) or owned one and didn't like it ... fair enough it can't be all things to all people but ...for goodness sake
stop knocking one of the most important and sucessful cars of the last 6 years , an award winner that saved an important british car company for recievership.
and probably contributed more to track day culture than other car of the last few years.....
everytime a decent question comes up - it gets refered to the british car bbs anyway ...
Ted .... sort them out.
The diesel might beat the elise 50 - 70 - don't even joke about it, you are miles of beam - ffs the bloody thing will only hit 98mph - not 135...
at fifty in top gear (why would I be in top gear) i would be in second gear !! this isn't even an argument
13.1 sec to 62mph - vs 5.2 secs for the elise (111s) or i suppose 6 secs real world - so by the time we both hit 60 I am twice the distance or even slightly more - that won't change between 50 - 70 .... why would accelerate from 50mph in top - its a sports car not a bloody van....
this forum is full of people who actually don't like the elise or don't like what lotus are pushing as a philosophy ... get over it already - it's a light weight low power sports car with the best handling in the business - thats what makes it special and lovable.
Enough from me - I resolve not to post in the lotus forum again - I loved my elise and was gutted when I sold it - this place is populated by people who have either never owned on (and probably never will) or owned one and didn't like it ... fair enough it can't be all things to all people but ...for goodness sake
stop knocking one of the most important and sucessful cars of the last 6 years , an award winner that saved an important british car company for recievership.
and probably contributed more to track day culture than other car of the last few years.....
everytime a decent question comes up - it gets refered to the british car bbs anyway ...
Ted .... sort them out.
I think it's time for Gargamels chill pill as he as had a serious sense of humour failure!!! 
Look the whole discussion of the standard Elise being underpowered has been running for ages, far longer than the start of this thread. I think most people will agree that it is time the standard Elise got something a bit more sprightly pushing it along as it needs to keep up with the competition. As you said it was an important stepping stone in car development, but every stepping stone leads onto another don't you think??
One of the reasons I love posting on this forum is the fact it is populated by pretty much every type of car owner and isn't some Lotus worshipping site singing it's praises all the time. Apart from when someone needs direct help there is always someone questioning your opinion or looking at things from another point of view, for gods sake don't take it personally!!
So for this thread you don't think the Elise is underpowered, fine, but don't treat everyone as wrong simply because they disagree with you.
Look the whole discussion of the standard Elise being underpowered has been running for ages, far longer than the start of this thread. I think most people will agree that it is time the standard Elise got something a bit more sprightly pushing it along as it needs to keep up with the competition. As you said it was an important stepping stone in car development, but every stepping stone leads onto another don't you think??
One of the reasons I love posting on this forum is the fact it is populated by pretty much every type of car owner and isn't some Lotus worshipping site singing it's praises all the time. Apart from when someone needs direct help there is always someone questioning your opinion or looking at things from another point of view, for gods sake don't take it personally!!
So for this thread you don't think the Elise is underpowered, fine, but don't treat everyone as wrong simply because they disagree with you.
Guys, Gargamel has a point although a deep breath on his part is required too. Please respect this forum as being here for the use of Elise enthusiasts.
That said, this debate on the whole has been an interesting one and the question was asked Elise vs Cerbera so most of it has been valid.
Let's keep this forum useful please and devoid of trolls.
That said, this debate on the whole has been an interesting one and the question was asked Elise vs Cerbera so most of it has been valid.
Let's keep this forum useful please and devoid of trolls.
PetrolTed
The question asked was Exige vs Cerbera so most of the discussion is not valid at all.
If you want comfort, power and a cracking engine note go for a Cerbera.
If you want racing car dynamics and plenty enough power for the road go for the Exige.
I don't even see the 2 cars as being mildly comparible.
The question asked was Exige vs Cerbera so most of the discussion is not valid at all.
If you want comfort, power and a cracking engine note go for a Cerbera.
If you want racing car dynamics and plenty enough power for the road go for the Exige.
I don't even see the 2 cars as being mildly comparible.
The wife and I are debating the fact that as our first baby is only 3 months away we might need to consider a 2+2 sportscar. If Lotus had one on the market (no, excels and elites need not apply...) then my blind brand loyalty would have won over. But there isn't one, so being British my only choice would be a Cerbera. I love TVR styling, I love the engines, and would probably buy one tomorrow BUT :
The elise feels fast at any speed - 40mph round the twisties feels like 90mph in my old 540. Can't imagine ever going beyond 120mph in a cerbie so thats almost half the engine power wasted...
The elise costs me bugger all to maintain - If a cerbie was as reliable / easy to maintain then I would be a happy man !
Anyone who complains about being beaten at 70mph+ should consider a small engine upgrade. Mines got a B&C 160ish kit (probably about 154 bhp) which has transformed the car into a fast lightweight.
I am also not the worlds greatest driver IMHO, and I worry that with my hands at the wheel of a cerbie I may run into trouble...
Any Cerbie drivers wish to put my mind at rest feel free - my wallet itches expectantly
Am I alone in wishing that one day some rich b'stard would buy Lotus off Proton and TVR of Mr. Wheeler and combine the two ? Lotus Handling with TVR engines - surely then we are talking a proper English Ferrari ?
Ok, ramble over
The elise feels fast at any speed - 40mph round the twisties feels like 90mph in my old 540. Can't imagine ever going beyond 120mph in a cerbie so thats almost half the engine power wasted...
The elise costs me bugger all to maintain - If a cerbie was as reliable / easy to maintain then I would be a happy man !
Anyone who complains about being beaten at 70mph+ should consider a small engine upgrade. Mines got a B&C 160ish kit (probably about 154 bhp) which has transformed the car into a fast lightweight.
I am also not the worlds greatest driver IMHO, and I worry that with my hands at the wheel of a cerbie I may run into trouble...
Any Cerbie drivers wish to put my mind at rest feel free - my wallet itches expectantly
Am I alone in wishing that one day some rich b'stard would buy Lotus off Proton and TVR of Mr. Wheeler and combine the two ? Lotus Handling with TVR engines - surely then we are talking a proper English Ferrari ?
Ok, ramble over
Newer TVRs are beginning to handle. The Tamora is a generation ahead of the Cerbera which simply isn't a good handling car straight out of the box. The Cerbera is also a car that begs to be driven at ridiculous speeds all the time. A real licence loser and perhaps not the ideal family motor
Lotus are unlikely to ever make 2+2's again it would seem. Their success in modern times is attributable to the Elise and I think whoever the owners are will certainly cling on to that mentality in the short term.
Also, at the end of the day let's not forget that Lotus are famous for making performance cars using light weight chassis and small engines.
Lotus are unlikely to ever make 2+2's again it would seem. Their success in modern times is attributable to the Elise and I think whoever the owners are will certainly cling on to that mentality in the short term.
Also, at the end of the day let's not forget that Lotus are famous for making performance cars using light weight chassis and small engines.
So if the Cerbie is not a great handler "out of the box" how can it be improved ? Is hydratrak the way forward ?
My little birdie tells me you might be wrong about the future of lotus cars though - I had heard that a 2 +2 (or +1) was very much a reality, along with another lightweight (a la 7 as opposed to elise...)
My little birdie tells me you might be wrong about the future of lotus cars though - I had heard that a 2 +2 (or +1) was very much a reality, along with another lightweight (a la 7 as opposed to elise...)
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