TVR vs Elise - good tradeoff?
Discussion
Oh dear gas blaster - you appear to have lowered the tone of an otherwise reasonable debate. 
The point being he already has a trevor and is looking to sell. Secondly whilst no one here disputes that the tvr is ultimately quicker etc - round a tight track it will lose to a well driven elise - and on a b road an elise will easily keep up - plus be more fun to drive - lower running costs eg 40mpg not 4
etc
Agreed the 500 is a great car - I dare say there are envious elise owners - I wonder though - have YOU driven an elise?
>> Edited by Gargamel on Thursday 5th December 17:42
The point being he already has a trevor and is looking to sell. Secondly whilst no one here disputes that the tvr is ultimately quicker etc - round a tight track it will lose to a well driven elise - and on a b road an elise will easily keep up - plus be more fun to drive - lower running costs eg 40mpg not 4
etc Agreed the 500 is a great car - I dare say there are envious elise owners - I wonder though - have YOU driven an elise?
>> Edited by Gargamel on Thursday 5th December 17:42
This Elise lack of grunt argument leaves me all rather perplexed. Where do you need it?
The grunt is not just about top speed, its about acceleration without having to thrash the nuts off it. Imagine this:
You are following numpty on your country lane, you come out of a bend and you have a bit of a straight, numpty accelerates, so do you BUT the lack of power means you don't have the instant ability to shoot past. This is especilly important if numpty accelerates to 60+. You end up stuck behind Numpty for miles and miles. Its no good you being able to corner fantastically if the car in front can't.
The elise should easily be capable of 100 in a sub-10secs (the Noble does it for example), thats where the grunt factor comes in.
As you say Clanger, top speed isn't that important its how it gets there.
wedgie said: I do concur that it's pretty academic having a machine that'll do 170 when you're tied to an Edwardian speed limit. But it is nice to know it's under there... and it is SO good to be able to stick the hoof down and lose that Boxter who decides to have a go on the Mway!
but its far more satisfying to hoof a Elise through a series of bends and leave a 350bhp blackpool monster trailing. the elise is just so good round bends.
any idiot can put their foot down, admittedly power wise its a different ethos from TVR but its equally as satisfying driving a car which really handles and grips like few others, short of a caterham!
depends on whether you are in it for your EGO (show up other drivers on a dual carriageway) or for a bit of sport, hooning it around a bit of twisty b road.
Bennno
Actually, it's all pretty academic now, cos Er Indoors has realised she can't get luggage in an Elise 
But it has been an interesting debate, though I do take some issue with going quickly in a straight line being referred to as ego - all part of the fun of driving a performance motor!
Thing is, the roads round local are nice and bendy, but the surface is fcukin awful to say the least (combined with half an inch of good wholesome you-know-what off the fields), so one has to take it a bit steady anyway
- getting onto a cushy dual carriageway is a blessing!
But it has been an interesting debate, though I do take some issue with going quickly in a straight line being referred to as ego - all part of the fun of driving a performance motor!
Thing is, the roads round local are nice and bendy, but the surface is fcukin awful to say the least (combined with half an inch of good wholesome you-know-what off the fields), so one has to take it a bit steady anyway
- getting onto a cushy dual carriageway is a blessing! 
Had TVR 350 Wedge, great noise comfy etc, got 400 Griff pre-cat sound even better but quite expensive to run, got Westfield SEight not as good a sound, but goes like s*it off a shovel - grin factor 9.5 out of 10, now have 'basic' Mk1 Elise, (as well!!!) terrific, not the grunt, not the extreme, but a joy to drive at any speed without the almost irresitible temptation to go to warp speed between every roundabout.
Light, dainty, quick (but not fast) grin factor reduced along with cost per mile and smile factor increased to 9.5. Aren't we all lucky to be able to have had the experiences listed in this thread
Light, dainty, quick (but not fast) grin factor reduced along with cost per mile and smile factor increased to 9.5. Aren't we all lucky to be able to have had the experiences listed in this thread
I rather like coming up behind an Elise, then watching it do its thing round the corners, then when the merest sniff of an overtaking opportunity arises (and it always does) surging past on a wave of torque.
Had a go in an Elise round Silverstone, handled very nicely, but the lack of acceleration was a turn off.
Having said that, I've always fancied a Caterham...does this compute?
Gruff. gruff.
Had a go in an Elise round Silverstone, handled very nicely, but the lack of acceleration was a turn off.
Having said that, I've always fancied a Caterham...does this compute?
Gruff. gruff.
Costs. Tvr big, Lotus small, Bro in law had a griff..great car, but cost a fortune to run, and fell apart when hammered, and depreciated like it had a bad desease.
the lotus is fun,nimble and you can afford to experiment with its fantastic chassis. plus its design is a classic, especially in chassis construction, take a good look at those door hinges! the tvr?.. bed frame job. the lotus you will want to keep forever the Tvr would wish for such....
no contest
the lotus is fun,nimble and you can afford to experiment with its fantastic chassis. plus its design is a classic, especially in chassis construction, take a good look at those door hinges! the tvr?.. bed frame job. the lotus you will want to keep forever the Tvr would wish for such....
no contest
Know what?
Rowland hit the nail on the head here - we should all step back and realise how lucky we are to be able to have this sort of conversation.
Take a moment, think of all those unfortunate people who may never progress beyond a Vectra
It's different strokes for different folks. Made me mind up - I'm sticking to TVR, (or maybe Noble if I get some extra cash). But it'll have to be another Chimp or a Cerb 4.5 - can't live without V8 (can't live with 6-pot engines blowing up either!)
But don't you Elsie folks take umbrage
it's personal preference!
By the way, here's an idea for a new thread...
why are all Vectra drivers such complete aerosols? I'll bet everyone here has had some sad rep in a Vectra try it on on the Mway!
In fact, I'm gonna be a devil and post this
>> Edited by wedgie on Thursday 5th December 22:52
Rowland hit the nail on the head here - we should all step back and realise how lucky we are to be able to have this sort of conversation.
Take a moment, think of all those unfortunate people who may never progress beyond a Vectra
It's different strokes for different folks. Made me mind up - I'm sticking to TVR, (or maybe Noble if I get some extra cash). But it'll have to be another Chimp or a Cerb 4.5 - can't live without V8 (can't live with 6-pot engines blowing up either!)
But don't you Elsie folks take umbrage
it's personal preference! By the way, here's an idea for a new thread...
why are all Vectra drivers such complete aerosols? I'll bet everyone here has had some sad rep in a Vectra try it on on the Mway!
In fact, I'm gonna be a devil and post this
>> Edited by wedgie on Thursday 5th December 22:52
Wedgie, because they are aerosols.
In the Chimaera, you just puts your foot down and wave goodbye. In the Elise they're right behind you. Unless you're down the twisty back roads.
As an aside, drove the Chimaera every day for 2 years, no problem.
Solutions to Problem
TVR power and Elise like handling, got to be the Noble then. Keep on saving...
Naff all luggage space though, if that's what your wife wants. Having said that, we're always amazed at how much you can get in the Elise. Long as you pack in small bags (Tesco etc), you can get a trolley full in. Just don't buy 12 toilet rolls as your wife (partner) will be sharing the front with them (ok for short distances though).
I agree with most of the discussion below, both British cars, both will put a smile on your face, both bloody brilliant but for different reasons.
Geoff...
In the Chimaera, you just puts your foot down and wave goodbye. In the Elise they're right behind you. Unless you're down the twisty back roads.
As an aside, drove the Chimaera every day for 2 years, no problem.
Solutions to Problem
TVR power and Elise like handling, got to be the Noble then. Keep on saving...
Naff all luggage space though, if that's what your wife wants. Having said that, we're always amazed at how much you can get in the Elise. Long as you pack in small bags (Tesco etc), you can get a trolley full in. Just don't buy 12 toilet rolls as your wife (partner) will be sharing the front with them (ok for short distances though).
I agree with most of the discussion below, both British cars, both will put a smile on your face, both bloody brilliant but for different reasons.
Geoff...
Just swapped my 400SE for an S1 Elise. After driving the Elise for a month I got back in the Wedge and it felt horrible in comparison all soggy and unresponsive despite brand new suspension. In comparison the Elise feels so connected, not only is the steering sharper than anything else I've driven, the brakes give so much feel and confidence. My s1 is standard engine spec but still feels crisp and responsive and the low speed acceleration is as good as thev wedge. The only place the TVR really excels over the Lotus is with the acceleration from high speed eg 90mph on and most of the time you cant drive at these speeds anyway. Tere is always the 160bhp upgrade anyway!
The only way to find out of course is to drive one - go for it!
Dave
The only way to find out of course is to drive one - go for it!
Dave
Just swapped my 400SE for an S1 Elise. After driving the Elise for a month I got back in the Wedge and it felt horrible in comparison all soggy and unresponsive despite brand new suspension. In comparison the Elise feels so connected, not only is the steering sharper than anything else I've driven, the brakes give so much feel and confidence. My s1 is standard engine spec but still feels crisp and responsive and the low speed acceleration is as good as thev wedge. The only place the TVR really excels over the Lotus is with the acceleration from high speed eg 90mph on and most of the time you cant drive at these speeds anyway. Tere is always the 160bhp upgrade anyway!
The only way to find out of course is to drive one - go for it!
Dave
The only way to find out of course is to drive one - go for it!
Dave
Just swapped my 400SE for an S1 Elise. After driving the Elise for a month I got back in the Wedge and it felt horrible in comparison all soggy and unresponsive despite brand new suspension. In comparison the Elise feels so connected, not only is the steering sharper than anything else I've driven, the brakes give so much feel and confidence. My s1 is standard engine spec but still feels crisp and responsive and the low speed acceleration is as good as thev wedge. The only place the TVR really excels over the Lotus is with the acceleration from high speed eg 90mph on and most of the time you cant drive at these speeds anyway. Tere is always the 160bhp upgrade anyway!
The only way to find out of course is to drive one - go for it!
Dave
The only way to find out of course is to drive one - go for it!
Dave
Just swapped my 400SE for an S1 Elise. After driving the Elise for a month I got back in the Wedge and it felt horrible in comparison all soggy and unresponsive despite brand new suspension. In comparison the Elise feels so connected, not only is the steering sharper than anything else I've driven, the brakes give so much feel and confidence. My s1 is standard engine spec but still feels crisp and responsive and the low speed acceleration is as good as thev wedge. The only place the TVR really excels over the Lotus is with the acceleration from high speed eg 90mph on and most of the time you cant drive at these speeds anyway. Tere is always the 160bhp upgrade anyway!
The only way to find out of course is to drive one - go for it!
Dave
The only way to find out of course is to drive one - go for it!
Dave
So if you want an Elise to go like a TVR, put a Turbo on it or a Honda engine in it. Then you can go just as fast, and probably be just as unreliable as the TVR
Light cars with powerful engines get stressed a lot, and things break
I have had problems with my exhaust system mounts breaking at track days. Hopefully soon I'll get a lightweight sport exhaust, but for now I got a flex coupling fitted to reduce the stress. However it is fun to drive a 200+ bhp Elise, I was behind two Vipers and a Pantera when they took off on some back roads, I had no problem staying with them on the straights and dawdled around the corners after them. Afterwards the Pantera driver came over to check my car out, and when he figured out I had about half the power and half the weight he understood...
200+Bhp is easily possible with the original K, so why waste thousands and thoudands of pounds putting a honda engine in . . . (I know you had to . . .)
You can get a brand new K for < 1000 quid, probably for 500 if you really look, and tune it, or get someone else to tune it for you . . . probably still far cheaper and much simpler than wasting time changing the engine . . .
Fd
>> Edited by fergusd on Sunday 8th December 12:51
You can get a brand new K for < 1000 quid, probably for 500 if you really look, and tune it, or get someone else to tune it for you . . . probably still far cheaper and much simpler than wasting time changing the engine . . .
Fd
>> Edited by fergusd on Sunday 8th December 12:51
Bennno said.....
If that were true, then yes it would be satisfying Ben, but you have never done that in your Elise so how would you know....
Also, I have driven my Tamora on the track twice now and both times I spanked an Elise driven by an instructor, so when combined with a decent chassis the power does make a difference.... however, a Griff 500 or Chimaera would get stuffed by an Elise on a track because of the poorer chassis/suspension/dampers on them.
I was mightily impressed by the way the Elise kept up with my Tamora in Wales the other week, but I was equally impressed with how my Tamora kept up with what is a stunningly quick and sharp handling car through the twisties. I had feared the Elise would lose me round the greasy twisty roads but it never did. AND when we hit the straights, you were holding me up Ben, and I'm not just saying that...
There is more to this argument than handling v Power. The latest TVR's (Tamora, T350, Tuscan S) all handle extremley well. What is the deciding factor for me here is what you are going to use the car for. If you want a track day car that handles brilliantly and you are not bothered about comfort or travelling long distances,or indeed going quick in a straight line, then the Elise is unbeatable value. The TVR however, is twice as expensive, twice as heavy and has all the creature comforts...ie: proper seats, carpets, heater, easier to get in and out of and quicker in a straight line.
They are both great cars, and comparing them isn't really fair at all. I loved the Elise when I had a go, but it is so different to any TVR. My advice, as always is to drive them all and buy the one you like best.
As for Bennno, well...he's just ordered a T350C so it's obvious what he likes best...
>> Edited by flasher on Sunday 8th December 16:38
but its far more satisfying to hoof a Elise through a series of bends and leave a 350bhp blackpool monster trailing. the elise is just so good round bends.
If that were true, then yes it would be satisfying Ben, but you have never done that in your Elise so how would you know....
Also, I have driven my Tamora on the track twice now and both times I spanked an Elise driven by an instructor, so when combined with a decent chassis the power does make a difference.... however, a Griff 500 or Chimaera would get stuffed by an Elise on a track because of the poorer chassis/suspension/dampers on them.
I was mightily impressed by the way the Elise kept up with my Tamora in Wales the other week, but I was equally impressed with how my Tamora kept up with what is a stunningly quick and sharp handling car through the twisties. I had feared the Elise would lose me round the greasy twisty roads but it never did. AND when we hit the straights, you were holding me up Ben, and I'm not just saying that...
There is more to this argument than handling v Power. The latest TVR's (Tamora, T350, Tuscan S) all handle extremley well. What is the deciding factor for me here is what you are going to use the car for. If you want a track day car that handles brilliantly and you are not bothered about comfort or travelling long distances,or indeed going quick in a straight line, then the Elise is unbeatable value. The TVR however, is twice as expensive, twice as heavy and has all the creature comforts...ie: proper seats, carpets, heater, easier to get in and out of and quicker in a straight line.
They are both great cars, and comparing them isn't really fair at all. I loved the Elise when I had a go, but it is so different to any TVR. My advice, as always is to drive them all and buy the one you like best.
As for Bennno, well...he's just ordered a T350C so it's obvious what he likes best...
>> Edited by flasher on Sunday 8th December 16:38
wedgie...whilst you're at it...
I'm going to butt in here and add a little contention to the debate.
To summarise the threads:
A TVR is utterly wonderful on the straights and fun in the corners...and makes a brilliant sound.
An Elise is utterly wonderful in the corners and runs out of fun on the straights...and can make a brilliant sound with a sports exhaust.
If you're genuinely going to test drive some cars I should like to point out a couple of alternatives:
A Porsche for instance. A Boxster (like my S ) corners with 99% of what an Elise will do and goes like 90% of our TVR. Its a compromise like any other...but an interesting alternative for you. It will also be bullet-proof reliable.
The Honda S2000 is getting a good reputation. Could also be worth a look?
Neither of these cars is as extreme as an Elise - and you cannot expect them to hang on in the quite same way the Elise will..but almost, almost...and they come with boot space and outstanding build quality.
P.S. I absoutely loved the Elise when I drove one last. I am thinking of getting one for "track use only" sort of thing....
If you're reading this dear not really. Promise. I'll get thet practical estate you've been talking about as a third car...
>> Edited by Don on Sunday 8th December 17:20
I'm going to butt in here and add a little contention to the debate.
To summarise the threads:
A TVR is utterly wonderful on the straights and fun in the corners...and makes a brilliant sound.
An Elise is utterly wonderful in the corners and runs out of fun on the straights...and can make a brilliant sound with a sports exhaust.
If you're genuinely going to test drive some cars I should like to point out a couple of alternatives:
A Porsche for instance. A Boxster (like my S ) corners with 99% of what an Elise will do and goes like 90% of our TVR. Its a compromise like any other...but an interesting alternative for you. It will also be bullet-proof reliable.
The Honda S2000 is getting a good reputation. Could also be worth a look?
Neither of these cars is as extreme as an Elise - and you cannot expect them to hang on in the quite same way the Elise will..but almost, almost...and they come with boot space and outstanding build quality.
P.S. I absoutely loved the Elise when I drove one last. I am thinking of getting one for "track use only" sort of thing....
If you're reading this dear not really. Promise.
I'll get thet practical estate you've been talking about as a third car... >> Edited by Don on Sunday 8th December 17:20
Also, I have driven my Tamora on the track twice now and both times I spanked an Elise driven by an instructor, so when combined with a decent chassis the power does make a difference.... however, a Griff 500 or Chimaera would get stuffed by an Elise on a track because of the poorer chassis/suspension/dampers on them.
Having passengered in a friends Tuscan and been thoroughly beaten by him on track in my standard engined Elise it's clear to me that something like a Tuscan or Tamora (my choice if the softtop was to my liking) is a very capable car, you cannot compete with that amount of horsepower . . . the handling is not as refined as the elise (much less composed though corners and upset by all sorts of things the elise ignores) but at the end of the day it doesn't matter, 250+ bhp more is something you cannot argue with.
I'd love a tuscan or tamora (with some decent dampers and springs - they are way too soft for my preference), but I could not buy a car with such a massive running costs and massive risk of engine failure, not yet, not until they are truly as reliable as my Elise has been. I hope that happens soon, but reading the Speed six forum in this site is a crying shame and not something that I consider acceptable for a 40+K car.
Fantastic cars, and certainly something I'd love to own, but not with the current reliablity.
Fd
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