RE: Lotus Europa S
Discussion
labman said:
I'm taking my Europa back to Thorney next week for an updated map which should iron out the problems I've had with the turbo cutting in and out (see previous post). If this works well then I would have to say that the Europa (in my opinion) is a far better option than the elise simply due to the power that's easily available with such an upgrade.
I did complain to Lotus about the ECU because I took a Europa for a test drive before buying one I noticed that there was a problem with the car over-revving when changing gear (it really is a bind after a week of ownership) and was told by the dealer that Lotus were working on a fix for the ECU to cure this and add more power at the same time, also, the upgrade would be fitted free of charge to all existing owners. I returned to the dealer 3 weeks later (after buying one)to be told that there is an upgrade for the Europa but it would cost me £1200 + fitting (but still didn't fix the problem with over-revving).
As you can imagine I was very pissed off and sent an email to Lotus customer care explaining the situation. I received a reply 3 weeks later telling me that's the way it is and they will not do anything about it, hence I went to Thorney.
Lotus have not impressed me one bit.
I will let you know how it goes with Thorney, if they fix the problems (and I'm sure they will)with the the ECU upgrade then I would have to recommend that you cannot buy a Europa without the Thorney Motorsport upgrade as the standard car is crap by comparison, it really does transform the car into something special.
Watch this space..........................
I'm sure detail's of this thread's get filtered through to Lotus, well unless they plan to drop this model from the line up? I don't believe they can't resolve your issue's with the Ecu and I think you should push this much further. I'd ask to speak to the Customer Service Manager up at Lotus or contact your supplying Lotus dealer and ask for the Lotus sales manager to contact you regarding this, know one wants negative feedback published on these forum's it would be the final nail in the coffin for the Europa before it even gets off the ground. Their's enough Lotus dealer's reading these forum's!I did complain to Lotus about the ECU because I took a Europa for a test drive before buying one I noticed that there was a problem with the car over-revving when changing gear (it really is a bind after a week of ownership) and was told by the dealer that Lotus were working on a fix for the ECU to cure this and add more power at the same time, also, the upgrade would be fitted free of charge to all existing owners. I returned to the dealer 3 weeks later (after buying one)to be told that there is an upgrade for the Europa but it would cost me £1200 + fitting (but still didn't fix the problem with over-revving).
As you can imagine I was very pissed off and sent an email to Lotus customer care explaining the situation. I received a reply 3 weeks later telling me that's the way it is and they will not do anything about it, hence I went to Thorney.
Lotus have not impressed me one bit.
I will let you know how it goes with Thorney, if they fix the problems (and I'm sure they will)with the the ECU upgrade then I would have to recommend that you cannot buy a Europa without the Thorney Motorsport upgrade as the standard car is crap by comparison, it really does transform the car into something special.
Watch this space..........................
Edited by labman on Thursday 6th September 06:55
Boggy
If the info that someone posted on Seloc earlier this week is to be believed, then the 'Eagle' model is now looking like becoming a 2 seater only rather than a 2+2. If this is the case then I can't see any place for the Europa in the current lineup. This isn't necessarily a bad move for Lotus, they really could do with a good looking, well built, 'comfier' coupe and if the VVA architecture allows a 2+2 in the same vein as this then they could be onto a winner. They just need to spend a bit more time working on aesthetics. The Europa just isn't different enough from the Elise to get current customers to swap from one to another (marginally lower sill and marginally bigger boot.)
Boggy you seems to have more knowledge about upcoming cars than any of us! Perhaps you'd be able to elaborate?
Boggy you seems to have more knowledge about upcoming cars than any of us! Perhaps you'd be able to elaborate?
rfoster said:
If the info that someone posted on Seloc earlier this week is to be believed, then the 'Eagle' model is now looking like becoming a 2 seater only rather than a 2+2. If this is the case then I can't see any place for the Europa in the current lineup. This isn't necessarily a bad move for Lotus, they really could do with a good looking, well built, 'comfier' coupe and if the VVA architecture allows a 2+2 in the same vein as this then they could be onto a winner. They just need to spend a bit more time working on aesthetics. The Europa just isn't different enough from the Elise to get current customers to swap from one to another (marginally lower sill and marginally bigger boot.)
Boggy you seems to have more knowledge about upcoming cars than any of us! Perhaps you'd be able to elaborate?
It wouldn't be fair for me to comment on an open forum such as this viewable by the general public, all I can say is it will be worth the wait. I think it will probably be a 2 seater coupe firstBoggy you seems to have more knowledge about upcoming cars than any of us! Perhaps you'd be able to elaborate?
The Europa is becoming a real non - starter and I'm gutted
Anyone who knows me understands this as I'm a complete Lotus fan so a model failing doesn't make me happy. I just wish they'd listened to the buying public, I can't remember a car made by Lotus failing like this? Let's face it Lotus have to sell new car's! If Lotus hadn't existed then Seloc wouldn't ever have formed, we'd never exchanged thread's, Honda/Audi conversion's wouldn't exist etc etc etcBoggy
As I wrote on the other Europa thread...
We're all getting excited of course... presuming that is that it's not a cocked-up, half-arsed, too-quick-to-market-without-being-properly-finished job just like the Europa.
It would be nice to think that whatever the Eagle is it'll work out of the box, that the interior won't have plastic of a similar quality to a Perodua, that the fit and finish will be first-class instead of premium economy, and that the support from the dealer network & Lotus themselves will step up a gear in case of any customer woes.
The Eagle and Esprit (IF it ever happens) will need a step-change in dealership and Hethel mind-set. The half-baked approach taken in many quarters that can just about be gotten away with for Elise and Exige customers won't cut it when you're competing against the big boys. I hope the complete and utter failure of the Europa has been a massive wake up call to Hethel and the dealer network.
We're all getting excited of course... presuming that is that it's not a cocked-up, half-arsed, too-quick-to-market-without-being-properly-finished job just like the Europa.
It would be nice to think that whatever the Eagle is it'll work out of the box, that the interior won't have plastic of a similar quality to a Perodua, that the fit and finish will be first-class instead of premium economy, and that the support from the dealer network & Lotus themselves will step up a gear in case of any customer woes.
The Eagle and Esprit (IF it ever happens) will need a step-change in dealership and Hethel mind-set. The half-baked approach taken in many quarters that can just about be gotten away with for Elise and Exige customers won't cut it when you're competing against the big boys. I hope the complete and utter failure of the Europa has been a massive wake up call to Hethel and the dealer network.
labman said:
I'm taking my Europa back to Thorney next week for an updated map which should iron out the problems I've had with the turbo cutting in and out (see previous post). If this works well then I would have to say that the Europa (in my opinion) is a far better option than the elise simply due to the power that's easily available with such an upgrade.
I did complain to Lotus about the ECU because I took a Europa for a test drive before buying one I noticed that there was a problem with the car over-revving when changing gear (it really is a bind after a week of ownership) and was told by the dealer that Lotus were working on a fix for the ECU to cure this and add more power at the same time, also, the upgrade would be fitted free of charge to all existing owners. I returned to the dealer 3 weeks later (after buying one)to be told that there is an upgrade for the Europa but it would cost me £1200 + fitting (but still didn't fix the problem with over-revving).
As you can imagine I was very pissed off and sent an email to Lotus customer care explaining the situation. I received a reply 3 weeks later telling me that's the way it is and they will not do anything about it, hence I went to Thorney.
Lotus have not impressed me one bit.
I will let you know how it goes with Thorney, if they fix the problems (and I'm sure they will)with the the ECU upgrade then I would have to recommend that you cannot buy a Europa without the Thorney Motorsport upgrade as the standard car is crap by comparison, it really does transform the car into something special.
Watch this space..........................
£1200 + fitting? That is a joke for what is essentially a remap. It should be free (and come with an appology). I'll bet that thorney have/will charge you less and do a better job to boot. That is pretty poor show from lotus IMHO you should not have to take the car to an aftermarket modifier to bring the car up to scratch as said before in so many previous posts (not just mine).I did complain to Lotus about the ECU because I took a Europa for a test drive before buying one I noticed that there was a problem with the car over-revving when changing gear (it really is a bind after a week of ownership) and was told by the dealer that Lotus were working on a fix for the ECU to cure this and add more power at the same time, also, the upgrade would be fitted free of charge to all existing owners. I returned to the dealer 3 weeks later (after buying one)to be told that there is an upgrade for the Europa but it would cost me £1200 + fitting (but still didn't fix the problem with over-revving).
As you can imagine I was very pissed off and sent an email to Lotus customer care explaining the situation. I received a reply 3 weeks later telling me that's the way it is and they will not do anything about it, hence I went to Thorney.
Lotus have not impressed me one bit.
I will let you know how it goes with Thorney, if they fix the problems (and I'm sure they will)with the the ECU upgrade then I would have to recommend that you cannot buy a Europa without the Thorney Motorsport upgrade as the standard car is crap by comparison, it really does transform the car into something special.
Watch this space..........................
Edited by labman on Thursday 6th September 06:55
If the new eagle/excel/eclat is a 2 seater then the europa indeed will be rather pointless and they should not have bothered and avoided the bad press they are getting. It really does make you think that the car was originally supposed to be a proton coupe. This is all such a shame.
IMHO the reason that the elise was such the phenomenon it is was not it's weight or performance (because lighter and faster cars such as caterhams et al were already out there for the die hard enthusiast) but its combination of price and practicality together with the badge and the above which was so far ahead of the alternatives. It ended up a totally different compromise to anything else on the market making it a much better car than expected and in doing so, carved out its own niche. At the time, lotus misread the market leading to long lead times and more customers than cars. This time, they seem to have misread the market in the same way but in the opposite way.
Boggy said:
rfoster said:
If the info that someone posted on Seloc earlier this week is to be believed, then the 'Eagle' model is now looking like becoming a 2 seater only rather than a 2+2. If this is the case then I can't see any place for the Europa in the current lineup. This isn't necessarily a bad move for Lotus, they really could do with a good looking, well built, 'comfier' coupe and if the VVA architecture allows a 2+2 in the same vein as this then they could be onto a winner. They just need to spend a bit more time working on aesthetics. The Europa just isn't different enough from the Elise to get current customers to swap from one to another (marginally lower sill and marginally bigger boot.)
Boggy you seems to have more knowledge about upcoming cars than any of us! Perhaps you'd be able to elaborate?
It wouldn't be fair for me to comment on an open forum such as this viewable by the general public, all I can say is it will be worth the wait. I think it will probably be a 2 seater coupe firstBoggy you seems to have more knowledge about upcoming cars than any of us! Perhaps you'd be able to elaborate?
The Europa is becoming a real non - starter and I'm gutted
Anyone who knows me understands this as I'm a complete Lotus fan so a model failing doesn't make me happy. I just wish they'd listened to the buying public, I can't remember a car made by Lotus failing like this? Let's face it Lotus have to sell new car's! If Lotus hadn't existed then Seloc wouldn't ever have formed, we'd never exchanged thread's, Honda/Audi conversion's wouldn't exist etc etc etcBoggy
The only reason that the europa is failing is because it isnt finished and doesnt handle quite like a comfy elise when it so easily (for no money if done during original build) could. Although i do think it should have a v6, wide body rear and long tail, the engine choice is such that it can easily (read cheaply) achieve ridiculous straight line pace in a reasonably practical package (ie. proper roof and ground clearence with comfy seats and nice interior appointments).
It really seems to me that lotus are just not committed to making this car good or satisfying it's existing or potential customers.
I'm starting to wonder if there is actually a decent size market for 2 seater coupes.
Europa = Not selling in any volume.
TVR = Bust.
BMW Z4C = The dealers are having to offer big discounts to shift them.
Porsche Cayman = They don't seem that common, and there is conflicting opinions on the Porsche board about how easily they are selling.
The only exception appears to be the Nissan 350Z.
Europa = Not selling in any volume.
TVR = Bust.
BMW Z4C = The dealers are having to offer big discounts to shift them.
Porsche Cayman = They don't seem that common, and there is conflicting opinions on the Porsche board about how easily they are selling.
The only exception appears to be the Nissan 350Z.
Fittster said:
I'm starting to wonder if there is actually a decent size market for 2 seater coupes.
Europa = Not selling in any volume.
TVR = Bust.
BMW Z4C = The dealers are having to offer big discounts to shift them.
Porsche Cayman = They don't seem that common, and there is conflicting opinions on the Porsche board about how easily they are selling.
The only exception appears to be the Nissan 350Z.
Yes a really cracking opportunity for Lotus to grab the market so to speak, I just can't wait for the Eagle to spank the Cayman's ar*e. If this car goes well then I truly believe it will lead a the end of financial problem's for Lotus for a few more yearsEuropa = Not selling in any volume.
TVR = Bust.
BMW Z4C = The dealers are having to offer big discounts to shift them.
Porsche Cayman = They don't seem that common, and there is conflicting opinions on the Porsche board about how easily they are selling.
The only exception appears to be the Nissan 350Z.
Boggy
Fittster said:
I'm starting to wonder if there is actually a decent size market for 2 seater coupes.
Europa = Not selling in any volume.
TVR = Bust.
BMW Z4C = The dealers are having to offer big discounts to shift them.
Porsche Cayman = They don't seem that common, and there is conflicting opinions on the Porsche board about how easily they are selling.
The only exception appears to be the Nissan 350Z.
Yes a really cracking opportunity for Lotus to grab the market so to speak, I just can't wait for the Eagle to spank the Cayman's ar*e. If this car goes well then I truly believe it will lead a the end of financial problem's for Lotus for a few more yearsEuropa = Not selling in any volume.
TVR = Bust.
BMW Z4C = The dealers are having to offer big discounts to shift them.
Porsche Cayman = They don't seem that common, and there is conflicting opinions on the Porsche board about how easily they are selling.
The only exception appears to be the Nissan 350Z.
Boggy
Boggy said:
Fittster said:
I'm starting to wonder if there is actually a decent size market for 2 seater coupes.
Europa = Not selling in any volume.
TVR = Bust.
BMW Z4C = The dealers are having to offer big discounts to shift them.
Porsche Cayman = They don't seem that common, and there is conflicting opinions on the Porsche board about how easily they are selling.
The only exception appears to be the Nissan 350Z.
Yes a really cracking opportunity for Lotus to grab the market so to speak, I just can't wait for the Eagle to spank the Cayman's ar*e. If this car goes well then I truly believe it will lead a the end of financial problem's for Lotus for a few more yearsEuropa = Not selling in any volume.
TVR = Bust.
BMW Z4C = The dealers are having to offer big discounts to shift them.
Porsche Cayman = They don't seem that common, and there is conflicting opinions on the Porsche board about how easily they are selling.
The only exception appears to be the Nissan 350Z.
Boggy
I think given a chance a large % of the car buying public will always buy the convertible version of a coupe. stiffness is not an issue when your trying to keep up with the Jones'.
The 350z does ok because currently, it is the only coupe where the soft top is significantly uglier than the coupe (RIP TVR 350)
4 seat coupes on the other hand do great in this country (BMW and Audi). The Audi TT sells much more coupes than soft tops becuase they lost 2 seats.
If lotus can keep the Eagle pretty with 2+2 then they should work hard at keeping the back seats no matter how useless they are. Their market will many times larger.
The 350z does ok because currently, it is the only coupe where the soft top is significantly uglier than the coupe (RIP TVR 350)
4 seat coupes on the other hand do great in this country (BMW and Audi). The Audi TT sells much more coupes than soft tops becuase they lost 2 seats.
If lotus can keep the Eagle pretty with 2+2 then they should work hard at keeping the back seats no matter how useless they are. Their market will many times larger.
James here:
Just taken the Europa round Megahoon, totalled 1629miles for 25.7mpg....
Could just about keep up with a GT3RS through twisties. The brakes are unbeatable they took massive punishment with not even the slightest of fade. Nitron adjustable was good and held the road brilliantly.
I got through a set of rear tyres and considering the temperatures of 32-39c was very pleased. I removed the steel plate under the grill on the rear and generally temps didn't get above 92c mainly 88c which is great. Did hit 102 on an 8,000foot pass over 20miles in 37c+ which was less than other cars....
All in all very pleased.. some slight intake heat issues which we will look at but considering the temps and the AMG55 wouldn't always give full boast due to temp as well I was more than happy.
Next stage a charge cooler and 280+ bhp.
View the Europa as an Elise like car in more aerodynamic clothing.... Very pleased with mine and most people seemed to like it...
Just taken the Europa round Megahoon, totalled 1629miles for 25.7mpg....
Could just about keep up with a GT3RS through twisties. The brakes are unbeatable they took massive punishment with not even the slightest of fade. Nitron adjustable was good and held the road brilliantly.
I got through a set of rear tyres and considering the temperatures of 32-39c was very pleased. I removed the steel plate under the grill on the rear and generally temps didn't get above 92c mainly 88c which is great. Did hit 102 on an 8,000foot pass over 20miles in 37c+ which was less than other cars....
All in all very pleased.. some slight intake heat issues which we will look at but considering the temps and the AMG55 wouldn't always give full boast due to temp as well I was more than happy.
Next stage a charge cooler and 280+ bhp.
View the Europa as an Elise like car in more aerodynamic clothing.... Very pleased with mine and most people seemed to like it...
Edited by Mrs Fish on Sunday 9th September 19:59
Mrs Fish said:
James here:
Just taken the Europa round Megahoon, totalled 1629miles for 25.7mpg....
Could just about keep up with a GT3RS through twisties. The brakes are unbeatable they took massive punishment with not even the slightest of fade. Nitron adjustable was good and held the road brilliantly.
I got through a set of rear tyres and considering the temperatures of 32-39c was very pleased. I removed the steel plate under the grill on the rear and generally temps didn't get above 92c mainly 88c which is great. Did hit 102 on an 8,000foot pass over 20miles in 37c+ which was less than other cars....
All in all very pleased.. some slight intake heat issues which we will look at but considering the temps and the AMG55 wouldn't always give full boast due to temp as well I was more than happy.
Next stage a charge cooler and 280+ bhp.
View the Europa as an Elise like car in more aerodynamic clothing.... Very pleased with mine and most people seemed to like it...
Good for you James, I am glad you are enjoying your car. Proof perfect that Lotus have totally cocked up and the car can easily be made into a real giant killer for a relatively small outlay. When they depreciate some more, I think I my have to have a punt. How are you getting on with the interior? Any mods planned?Just taken the Europa round Megahoon, totalled 1629miles for 25.7mpg....
Could just about keep up with a GT3RS through twisties. The brakes are unbeatable they took massive punishment with not even the slightest of fade. Nitron adjustable was good and held the road brilliantly.
I got through a set of rear tyres and considering the temperatures of 32-39c was very pleased. I removed the steel plate under the grill on the rear and generally temps didn't get above 92c mainly 88c which is great. Did hit 102 on an 8,000foot pass over 20miles in 37c+ which was less than other cars....
All in all very pleased.. some slight intake heat issues which we will look at but considering the temps and the AMG55 wouldn't always give full boast due to temp as well I was more than happy.
Next stage a charge cooler and 280+ bhp.
View the Europa as an Elise like car in more aerodynamic clothing.... Very pleased with mine and most people seemed to like it...
Edited by Mrs Fish on Sunday 9th September 19:59
Redlake27 said:
Thanks for all your advice on here....
It is a Marmite car, but I've read all this and taken the plunge. 225bhp ECU upgrade and Upgraded brakes included in the performance pack. I get it next week!
I picked mine up just over a week ago - it's fantastic, you won't regret your decision!It is a Marmite car, but I've read all this and taken the plunge. 225bhp ECU upgrade and Upgraded brakes included in the performance pack. I get it next week!
Not got the upgrade on mine yet, but will probably sort it at the next service
Cheers
Jerry
The first Lotus Europa S in Norway has turned up now... 2007, 7k miles, canyon red, £59k. I kid you not 
http://www.finn.no/finn/car/object?finnkode=123202...
http://www.finn.no/finn/car/object?finnkode=123202...
trondhb said:
The first Lotus Europa S in Norway has turned up now... 2007, 7k miles, canyon red, £59k. I kid you not
http://www.finn.no/finn/car/object?finnkode=123202...
Crikey! now that's what I call a rip-off. I can only assume that that is all down to tax?http://www.finn.no/finn/car/object?finnkode=123202...
Why dont you just do what people do in england and drive arround in one bought/registered in poland?
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff