RE: Lotus Europa S

Author
Discussion

TheYeti

656 posts

215 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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VladD said:
I have a big problem here. The first car I ever though was cool was a Lotus Eurpoa and thus the name brings back good memories.

Secondly, I'm having a certain birthday next year in which, theoretically, my life should begin.

What should come along at just the right time, but this Europa. Great I thought, perfect timing.

And then there are the reviews, which are a mixed bag to say the least.

Guess I'll just have to test drive one and see what I think.

I suppose the question is, is it worth the money? There have been all these comparisons to the Elise/Exige, but would an Esprit V8 be a better alternative if you want more of a GT than a sports car. Has anyone driven both and got an opinion?

This car could be a daily driver for me, so would that rule an Esprit out? Would an M3 be more sensible?

I'm so confused.


Vlad,

As we have no idea what the new Esprit is going to be like (no-one has actually seen it yet) and basing it on the LAST Esprit, which was out and out supercar, I reckon the Esprit ISN'T going to be an everydayer. Maybe Lotus are going that way to broaden their market, but the Esprit would be VERY expensive to run as an every day car. The Europa on the other hand is a very achievable target as an every day car and you really, really should go and drive one and see what you think to make up your mind. Don't expect the Esprit to be ready to compare by the time your "special" birthday comes around though............

rfoster

1,482 posts

253 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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S works said:
I think the big concern with the Esprit is that when it goes wrong (and it most certainly will) it's going to kick you in the nuts... hard.


Oh yes. Been there, done that.

cross-eyed-twit

8,421 posts

259 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
I'm sorry, are you paid by Lotus' competitors to say these things? sounds like you are putting words into peoples mouths. Why don't you drive one before you slag them off, or just stick to your 'Scooby' which is in my opinion, shit.
thanks



scoobiewrx said:
The answer is no, no and definately no again. The Exige and Elise are great modern sports cars but the Europa is a pile of poo!!! All the reviews i have read on the Europa say that basically it's just not worth the bother, and no more a GT car than a Morris Minor. It doesn't look that great either.

Sorry to be so critical and i may be completely wrong as i have never driven one but all the indicators say to me DON'T BUY ONE!!! nono

Francis



edited to add:
Lotus use a 'Scooby' like yours to drag a water bowser round their handling circuit. very reliable apparently...



Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Monday 9th October 17:39

Black_Lotus

14 posts

261 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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The car itself may not be that bad, but...

The looks are not that excellent, don't say not to compare it to an elise or exige because it has millimetrically the same interior (It just has the US Elise Dashboard Or Super Touring Pack Elise Dashboard).

So what is the point of this car?

The only thing I could come up with is that they want to get rid of their remaining VX220 engines. If it should be an all day gt why put a vauxhall engine in it, the toyota engine has better performance and is more reliable.

If only they had added a V6 engine to justify the price difference with the elise, but sorry for the biggest part it is a longer elise with a vauxhall engine and proton looks.

Regards.

ChrisW.

6,208 posts

254 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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I rather like the look of this car.

I'm also looking at an Aston Martin Vantage V8.

But I already have a GT3 which will outrun and outscratch the V8 by miles.

I'm looking for something that's exclusive and yet reasonably eco-friendly (the GT3 does 16mpg), and I like the idea of light yet practical.

I've had an Elise --- yes the boot did stop working --- I have a 130000 mile Yaris and can live with the lightweight plastics which have been --- derided, so it's definitely on my list of Must Drives.

Alternative, BMW 335i Turbo ? (If that's the model number !) But this would be othing like as special, so long as the Lotus is reliable.

Saw a Fezza 430 Spider being hauled onto a low loader yeterday and I really felt for the poor guy watching it go ....

MW666

64 posts

223 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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why is this car getting such a slating when the vx220 turbo got such praise, as the cars are meant to be more than just similar under the skin?

monkey boy 1

2,063 posts

230 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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S Works said:
No-one's been 'done' out of anything. When the are people going to get over the fact that the M250 didn't pan out and probably never will? Move on.


clapclapclap At last, someone who realises that the M250 was a prototype, a still born project from 1999.

Esprit

6,370 posts

282 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
monkey boy 1 said:
S Works said:
No-one's been 'done' out of anything. When the are people going to get over the fact that the M250 didn't pan out and probably never will? Move on.


clapclapclap At last, someone who realises that the M250 was a prototype, a still born project from 1999.


The interesting thing is that people still lust after it, seven years on. The M250 still looks stunning and Lotus Customer base would have supported the model.

I understand that it wasn't viable and is stillborn, but that doesn't mean we can't voice our desire to have seen it on the road... perhaps Lotus will listen to us and one day give us an "M250", a slightly smaller, more toned-down Esprit.

ragtop

919 posts

244 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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2 words.

renault fuego

Fruitcake

3,850 posts

225 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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wadsy said:
"The red-headed stepchild of the Lotus family"

If you are going to be a writer in the public domain then can I suggest you extend your vocabulary so you don't have to use such derogatory statements.


Jeez, someone got of of the wrong side of the bed.

Anyway, the car and the article. I think it conveys what Lotus envisage the car to do. My journey into work in the morning is a mere 20 miles, some of it through wonderful countryside and brilliant country lanes that are fast and usually free flowing but for the rest of it I'm stuck in traffic.

I think I'd struggle to find a better car for me than a Europa S.

604

489 posts

231 months

Monday 9th October 2006
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mannn I started reading some of these replies up front and thought 'o god, Im going to have to defend this car against EVERYONE...'
but Im REALLY happy to see Im not alone in liking this car. Being the the US though, I can only dream of seeing one in person (I think its stunning from the pics), much less having a go at it behind the wheel but - as stated previously - never expected it to be along the lines of a raw elise with a bigger boot. If I was in the market for an everyday car right now, in this price range, Id probably leave my MX5 for weekends in the summer and go for one of these everyday.
- simply put - theres too many Bimmers/Mercs/Lexus's running around these days and I prefer these cars with the 'less is more' thinking with no excess of un-needed creature comforts and such. Plus, its still a Lotus - and softer than an Elise it may be - but it sure as hell would still be far from a boring drive...

Snapper7

990 posts

258 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Lotus shouldn't have any problem shifting stock, even at a £32,995 asking price

But they don't Cost £ 32,995, What rubbish....

They cost £32,995 + Paint + road Tax + Delivery @ £ 900 => £ 34500

Lotus Dealers have told me that the Europa only comes in Metalic or life style paint and both of those have extra cost. The Lotus website did confirm this the other day, but Lotus have put Bog Standard Green as the only solid colour on their website for standard colour options. (Who would want standard green?).

Even if you collect the car Lotus will still charge you the extra £ 900 for delivery.

I have phoned a number of dealers and every one of them has told me the cost is £34,500 mark.

bobo

1,702 posts

277 months

Tuesday 10th October 2006
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so has anyone actually bought one yet ?


hahithestevieboy

845 posts

213 months

Tuesday 10th October 2006
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I think the problem with this car is that people (myself included) wanted to see something really special. Poeple have been wanting to see a v6 in the back of a lotus for years and imho wanted to see a genuine challenger to the porsche cayman. I think that they also wanted to see something with lotus's much vaunted VVA architecture (or what ever it was called) that got rid of some of the silly practicallity issues with current lotuses. At the end of the day, the europa is not what people expected (or it seems wanted) lotus to produce as it does not represent a significant enough step forward in technology, performance or practicality. People are therefore dissapointed and are slagging the car for that reason. It is quite simple really - most people who have commented will probably not buy one cos they dont want it. They are blinkered (rightly so) by their own expectations of the product (which it clearly does not meet) and therefore taking it out of it's dubious context. Can we all please also remember that a vauxhall vx220T was not 35 grand and the europa does not offer good value for money compared to more mainstream stuff.

bobo

1,702 posts

277 months

Tuesday 10th October 2006
quotequote all
hahithestevieboy said:
I think the problem with this car is that people (myself included) wanted to see something really special. Poeple have been wanting to see a v6 in the back of a lotus for years and imho wanted to see a genuine challenger to the porsche cayman. I think that they also wanted to see something with lotus's much vaunted VVA architecture (or what ever it was called) that got rid of some of the silly practicallity issues with current lotuses. At the end of the day, the europa is not what people expected (or it seems wanted) lotus to produce as it does not represent a significant enough step forward in technology, performance or practicality. People are therefore dissapointed and are slagging the car for that reason. It is quite simple really - most people who have commented will probably not buy one cos they dont want it. They are blinkered (rightly so) by their own expectations of the product (which it clearly does not meet) and therefore taking it out of it's dubious context. Can we all please also remember that a vauxhall vx220T was not 35 grand and the europa does not offer good value for money compared to more mainstream stuff.


very well put...

Robsarve

2 posts

209 months

Tuesday 10th October 2006
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I drive a Corrado to work. It´s the best compromise I could find.

35 k is a whole lot of money for a car with an old opel (vauxhall) engine...

I do love the car though. The styling isn´t 100%, but´s it´s about inner values.

So I hope a lot of you guys buy it, and I´ll buy it second hand and shoehorn a VR6 3.2 into it...

hahithestevieboy

845 posts

213 months

Tuesday 10th October 2006
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Indeed rob, but why should be have to do such a thing. At 35K, it should already have one. Does anyone remember the KV6 coupe they did based on the S1? it was a wonderful shape and i suspect (for the time) just what the doctor ordered. These days they would have to up their game somewhat to meet higher customer expectations. The porsche cayman needs a challenger and lotus is just the company to do it. It is interesting that lotus have had two tries at streatched v6 elise coupe type car both of which have been still born. They obviously want to do it and it seems that is what customers want. Perhaps they just cant do it for a reasonable cost or the market isnt there unless it has ridiculous performance (expensive). Maybe such a car would be too near the performance of the new esprit.......

Sigh.... come one lotus.....

cathalm

606 posts

243 months

Tuesday 10th October 2006
quotequote all
hahithestevieboy said:
Indeed rob, but why should be have to do such a thing. At 35K, it should already have one. Does anyone remember the KV6 coupe they did based on the S1? it was a wonderful shape and i suspect (for the time) just what the doctor ordered. These days they would have to up their game somewhat to meet higher customer expectations. The porsche cayman needs a challenger and lotus is just the company to do it. It is interesting that lotus have had two tries at streatched v6 elise coupe type car both of which have been still born. They obviously want to do it and it seems that is what customers want. Perhaps they just cant do it for a reasonable cost or the market isnt there unless it has ridiculous performance (expensive). Maybe such a car would be too near the performance of the new esprit.......

Sigh.... come one lotus.....


Not picking on this one in particular, but many of the comments on here. It doesn't have a V6 because that wouldn't fot and would be too heavy, Lotus engineers still bemoan the loss of the K series and having to adopt the Toyota engine. Somebody said on here that the engine is an old Opel one, old? I don't think so my friend, and somebody said that the toyota engine has better performance, what crap, less power, les torque and if ever there was a wheezing asthmatic engine in a sportscar that's it, a poor immitation of the K and the honda V-tec engines.

For those of you wondering what the car is for, I'll tell you, it's for me. I've had an Elise, and I've had a vx220. I loved them both to a ridiculous degree and both were daily drivers. Now, there came a point at which I knew that the noise on the motorway was tiring me out, and the lack of heating in particular was doing me in. All i wanted was an Elise with 15% less noise and functional heating, that would have been enough for me. In the end I screwed up my back, and getting in and out was making it worse, if only the sill was 20% smaller...

I ended up havcing to move away form Lotus in the end. The idea of a lotus with just 10 or evn 15% more comfort, pro bax seats, just a little less noise and a decent heater is mana from heaven to me. There are others out there like me, and at 500 a year, they'll be snapped up.

bobo

1,702 posts

277 months

Tuesday 10th October 2006
quotequote all
Considering the esprit i think is now due 2008, the europa isn’t getting perhaps the reviews lotus wanted / according to them isn’t a money spinner is a low volume car anyway and elise/exige sales are in decline in the US and Euroland...

They either have something up their sleeves between now and the esprit or its looking a bit grim isn’t it??

Serious question...







scoobiewrx

4,863 posts

225 months

Tuesday 10th October 2006
quotequote all
cross-eyed-twit said:
I'm sorry, are you paid by Lotus' competitors to say these things? sounds like you are putting words into peoples mouths. Why don't you drive one before you slag them off, or just stick to your 'Scooby' which is in my opinion, shit.
thanks



scoobiewrx said:
The answer is no, no and definately no again. The Exige and Elise are great modern sports cars but the Europa is a pile of poo!!! All the reviews i have read on the Europa say that basically it's just not worth the bother, and no more a GT car than a Morris Minor. It doesn't look that great either.

Sorry to be so critical and i may be completely wrong as i have never driven one but all the indicators say to me DON'T BUY ONE!!! nono

Francis



edited to add:
Lotus use a 'Scooby' like yours to drag a water bowser round their handling circuit. very reliable apparently...



Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Monday 9th October 17:39


Well ermmm...as your name suggests...you must be a cross-eyed-twit...everyone is entitled to an opinion including myself and if that really upsets you...go somewhere else. I wasn't putting anything into anyones mouth. Uncross your eyes a bit and you might see that i said at the end of my posting... "Sorry to be so ccritical and i may be completely wrong"... And...i will stick to my scooby...that's why i bought one, you PLONKA!!!