RE: Lotus Europa S
Discussion
bobo said:
Considering the esprit i think is now due 2008, the europa isn’t getting perhaps the reviews lotus wanted / according to them isn’t a money spinner is a low volume car anyway and elise/exige sales are in decline in the US and Euroland...
They either have something up their sleeves between now and the esprit or its looking a bit grim isn’t it??
Serious question...
They either have something up their sleeves between now and the esprit or its looking a bit grim isn’t it??
Serious question...
Looking a bit grim? Come on!
They have 2 Elises now on sale, the S and the R.
They have 3 Exiges now on sale, the Exige, the Exige S and you can still spec up a Cup240 spec car if you want one.
They have the Europa S with murmours of potential for an "R" at some point.
The Esprit has been put back to 2009 apparently (originally due in 2008). If you believe the rumour-mongers it's because they've had a dispute with BMW over the engine or something... BMW engine with Lotus chassis sounds nice though eh?
And there's a secondary rumour on the mill which postulates that another part of the delay of the Esprit is that they will bring in a (BMW?) V6 engined "something", maybe a 2+2 in 2007. That VVA may yet be put to good use, and if it is (and given the amount of whining and begging of the Lotus afficionado's over the still-born M250), I guess it wouldn't be complete madness to think that something more akin to that in the design-shop.
We wait with baited breath.
quote from ScoobyWRX:
Well ermmm...as your name suggests...you must be a cross-eyed-twit...everyone is entitled to an opinion including myself and if that really upsets you...go somewhere else. I wasn't putting anything into anyones mouth. Uncross your eyes a bit and you might see that i said at the end of my posting... "Sorry to be so ccritical and i may be completely wrong"... And...i will stick to my scooby...that's why i bought one, you PLONKA!!!
ouch ouch ouch
well I'm not in the habit of flaming people but you clearly have an opinion that you want, no demand, everyone to abide by. If people out there think the car is crap fine, don't buy it, voice your opinion and clear off to whatever other forum you frequent but to practically 'order' people not to buy it is just a little rude. Especially as you haven't driven the damn thing so can't give ANY practical reasons why
How about I tell everyone to not buy a Subaru as they are heavy lumbering eyesores that any twit, myself included, can drive fast and have the appeal of the chav population.
Well, that may or may not be my opinion but I aint going on a Subaru forum to voice it. That would be a bit rude and people would probably, no, certainly, flame me for inciting bad feeling.
I see there are faults with the car, its overpriced... erm thats it really. Very pretty, interior is nice and it caters to a particular customer. And they are only building 500 a year.
I haven't driven it so can't comment on the dynamics but am happy to read the reviews which say it drives as a Lotus should, brilliantly.
Perhaps you should consider your comments before imposing your views on fans of a particular marque, especially as you don't appear to own a Lotus at all...
Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Tuesday 10th October 12:26
cathalm said:
One other thing worth mentioning is that you can get that engine to generate a lot more power with no problems. Rmap for 500 notes and youll have another 40bhp, a bit more and you can head towards 300. It has been done loads with the VX220.
Exacty - Thorney Motorsport have made big strides with that engine. I can see an "R" model with 250-300bhp being easily achievable.
cross-eyed-twit said:
How about I tell everyone to not buy a Subaru as they are heavy lumbering eyesores that any twit, myself included, can drive fast and have the appeal of the chav population.
Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Tuesday 10th October 12:26
steady on old chap... my mum drives a scooby wrx sti and she’s 60 and far from being a chav.
she loves it.... as i do. for what it does it does brilliantly. it has something in common with the europa tho... really horrible dash ha ha ha (i trust we can still joke on here?)
sorry to go off topic.
With 300bhp and monster breaks the car would finaly have more of a point (previous comments about that "little bit more comfort" agreed), but for some reason it gives me the feeling that it would sit absolutely superbly with a proton badge and an 18K price tag. They do look alot nicer in the flesh though but at 35K methinks it should have much more poke and the interior absolutely covered (especially the dash) in leather and alcantara to give it more percieved comfort and luxury. I really wanted to like it and do see how it could make alot of sense. Still dissapointed it wasnt something more though.... bit of a waste of the europa name really. Hope a (better) excel or eclat appears some time soon. PS i would defo start saving for one if it had the 300bhp and loads of alcantara even at the silly price but then i would be getting more for my money.
there was me thinking it was aimed at people wanting a more practical and comfortable elise! I reckon that it's just not powerful enough and it certainly isnt cheap enough. I reckon a standard version with 250bhp at this price (or cheaper) would be more like it and a 300bhp R version with the appropriate upgrade in tyres, breaks and suspension (still at under 38K) would be much more sensible and would give people more justification to buy it. I just cant get my head around the silly high asking price. I still reckon that it could (with little modification) be made into a really brilliant little sports/gt car. I think i could forgive the lack of cylinders if it had the (on road) straight line pace to leave an exige s for dead.
Maybe i'll get one second hand in a couple of years, put yokos, nitrons and bigger breaks on it then trim a load of the interior bits in my favorite material (alcantara) and soup it up to 300bhp and have a right naughty little sports car that can handle the daily commute and outrun other serious machinery....
Maybe i'll get one second hand in a couple of years, put yokos, nitrons and bigger breaks on it then trim a load of the interior bits in my favorite material (alcantara) and soup it up to 300bhp and have a right naughty little sports car that can handle the daily commute and outrun other serious machinery....
Cris Neils had one in a couple of weeks ago. While waiting for my scooby to be ready I had a sniff round it. It's certainly a lot better appointed than an elise or exige inside and probably a lot more comfortable to drive any distance. However, the question I kept asking myself was, why would I bother to buy one? It felt like a compromise to me. I've been looking at an elise for a couple of months (going for a WR1 impreza instead) and I can't see a reason why anyone who wants the thrills of a lotus would settle on one of these. If you want a GT car then the same question applies, why would you want a europa to fulfill that role?
I know, I actually didn't mean the comments, I was just a little peeved at the ignorant comments made and wanted to have a rant.
i sat in a Europa a little while back at the factory and its a great little car, just some people can't pigeonhole it, as if it needed to be.
I have nothing against Subarus or any other car really, except perhaps the Escort that I used to have that ran on 3 cylinders and was prone to breaking down at busy traffic lights...
How about I tell everyone to not buy a Subaru as they are heavy lumbering eyesores that any twit, myself included, can drive fast and have the appeal of the chav population.
steady on old chap... my mum drives a scooby wrx sti and she’s 60 and far from being a chav.
she loves it.... as i do. for what it does it does brilliantly. it has something in common with the europa tho... really horrible dash ha ha ha (i trust we can still joke on here?)
sorry to go off topic.
i sat in a Europa a little while back at the factory and its a great little car, just some people can't pigeonhole it, as if it needed to be.
I have nothing against Subarus or any other car really, except perhaps the Escort that I used to have that ran on 3 cylinders and was prone to breaking down at busy traffic lights...
bobo said:
cross-eyed-twit said:
How about I tell everyone to not buy a Subaru as they are heavy lumbering eyesores that any twit, myself included, can drive fast and have the appeal of the chav population.
Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Tuesday 10th October 12:26
steady on old chap... my mum drives a scooby wrx sti and she’s 60 and far from being a chav.
she loves it.... as i do. for what it does it does brilliantly. it has something in common with the europa tho... really horrible dash ha ha ha (i trust we can still joke on here?)
sorry to go off topic.
Fair play to Lotus I think it's a good little car, aesthetically could have been better but I can certainly see a market for it. I think it's probably true that Lotus simply couldn't afford to develop it anymore so there will be some flaws but it was either that or nothing at all.
It's especially refreshing to have some different options at least to all the mass market boring stuff out there.
I personally like driving something a bit different, to the point where I am willing to overlook certain flaws for the knowledge that I am driving something special and fairly unique.
Lets get behind our British manufacturers for a change.
It's especially refreshing to have some different options at least to all the mass market boring stuff out there.
I personally like driving something a bit different, to the point where I am willing to overlook certain flaws for the knowledge that I am driving something special and fairly unique.
Lets get behind our British manufacturers for a change.
Before anyone judges the new Europa just drive it. I had a test drive on Monday and all I can say is it's fantastic. Every bit a real Lotus. Engine, gear change, breaks, ride and handling are a revelation. Only quibble is it's a little difficult to get in and out of. To say it's a Proton reject is an insult. It may seem pricey but you are paying for a finely tuned product. It really is that good and, no, I don't work for them!
I haven't driven the Europa S yet, but have finally seen it in person (although to my defence, only through the glass sitting inside the showroom at night time). Personally, I'd rather have more Lotus and less Vauxhall in it. IMO they could have done a lot better to distinguish it from the rest of the market and make it look like a Lotus should. I'm sure it drives like a Lotus should, but IMO the car just doesn't have enough of that specialness that makes the Elise and Exige (and the Esprit, Europa before it, Elan) a true Lotus.
You can't compare the VX with the Europa. The Europa was designed to give a little more comfort and practicality over something like the Elise and VX and I believe it could still give them both a run for their money. I appreciate the VX was built by Lotus but which badge holds more kudos? Lotus or Vauxhall? You are paying a premium for the name of a product that is at the leading edge of performance cars. Who do Vauxhall and other manufacturers go to for help with their handling? Lotus is all about Chapman, his design brilliance and racing heritage. Even Enzo was in awe of him! Lotus can't afford to develop their own engine anymore and this why they use the Vauxhall unit (which is excellent) and are looking at others for the Esprit replacement. Lotus specialty is designing cars that combine power, light weight and handling. There is nothing wrong with using alternative engine suppliers. It's how you combine the package and Lotus are second to none in this field. Perhaps it can't quite meet the build quality and luxury of it's competitors but I know which badge excites me more. Even if it comes with a hefty price tag!
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