RE: Lotus Europa S
Discussion
If Lotus keeping making varients based on one car (the Elise) they will have zero sales in the USA, only appeal to a small minority of people in Europe and go bust.
Porsche had the same situation with the 911. They saw the light. Sold out, and built the Cayenne (and to some peoples opinion, the Boxster), made loads of money. This then gave them the luxury to build such specialist products as the GT3 RS.
Lotus needs to build a proper TT/Boxster/Z4/350z alternative for the business to survive. The Europa is a wasted opportunity. It should have been called the Elise Lux! Actually, the Elise Ugly Lux.
Porsche had the same situation with the 911. They saw the light. Sold out, and built the Cayenne (and to some peoples opinion, the Boxster), made loads of money. This then gave them the luxury to build such specialist products as the GT3 RS.
Lotus needs to build a proper TT/Boxster/Z4/350z alternative for the business to survive. The Europa is a wasted opportunity. It should have been called the Elise Lux! Actually, the Elise Ugly Lux.
cross-eyed-twit said:
quote from ScoobyWRX:
Well ermmm...as your name suggests...you must be a cross-eyed-twit...everyone is entitled to an opinion including myself and if that really upsets you...go somewhere else. I wasn't putting anything into anyones mouth. Uncross your eyes a bit and you might see that i said at the end of my posting... "Sorry to be so ccritical and i may be completely wrong"... And...i will stick to my scooby...that's why i bought one, you PLONKA!!!
ouch ouch ouch
well I'm not in the habit of flaming people but you clearly have an opinion that you want, no demand, everyone to abide by. If people out there think the car is crap fine, don't buy it, voice your opinion and clear off to whatever other forum you frequent but to practically 'order' people not to buy it is just a little rude. Especially as you haven't driven the damn thing so can't give ANY practical reasons why
How about I tell everyone to not buy a Subaru as they are heavy lumbering eyesores that any twit, myself included, can drive fast and have the appeal of the chav population.
Well, that may or may not be my opinion but I aint going on a Subaru forum to voice it. That would be a bit rude and people would probably, no, certainly, flame me for inciting bad feeling.
I see there are faults with the car, its overpriced... erm thats it really. Very pretty, interior is nice and it caters to a particular customer. And they are only building 500 a year.
I haven't driven it so can't comment on the dynamics but am happy to read the reviews which say it drives as a Lotus should, brilliantly.
Perhaps you should consider your comments before imposing your views on fans of a particular marque, especially as you don't appear to own a Lotus at all...
Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Tuesday 10th October 12:26
You really don't get it do you. The very end of my post says " all the indicators tell me Don't buy one. I wasn't telling anyone else not to buy one, just me!! And i wasn't ordering anyone to do anything at all. You really ought to get yourself a decent education and learn to read properly, and i suspect a new pair of glasses might help too. If you can't take some critique levied against a car, just because you own an old Esprit and are clearly a Lotus Fan (which i happen to think is a lovely car),...not levied at you...but at car, then you really shouldn't be on here. I've driven an Elise and an Exige and i thought they were absolutely fabulous cars,
i have driven an old Elan as well which i thought was a peach, so i have absolutely no issue with Lotus, just this particular car. BTW...You get all sorts of car fans on here, this isn't exclusively a Lotus forum and i bet a lot of the people that commented on this particular subject and gave their opinions don't even own a Lotus, so you are talking crap.
This is what PistonHeads is all about, experessing your opinion, having a rant, reading what other people think etc, etc..., and thats exactly what i have come here to do. This is a fourm for everyone. The comments you made above and have levied at me after my original posting just go to show that you really are a complete and utter PLONKA, and you don't read properly or fully understand what is being said.
I will have my say on here just like everyone else is entitled to, and i won't clear off. That's why i joined. If you don't like it you clear off. P.S. If you go onto the Suabru forums and make comments to them as you have made to me they will verbally tear you apart, and rightly so because you are talking utter rubbish. Now...GO AWAY you sad man!!
scoobiewrx said:
cross-eyed-twit said:
quote from ScoobyWRX:
Well ermmm...as your name suggests...you must be a cross-eyed-twit...everyone is entitled to an opinion including myself and if that really upsets you...go somewhere else. I wasn't putting anything into anyones mouth. Uncross your eyes a bit and you might see that i said at the end of my posting... "Sorry to be so ccritical and i may be completely wrong"... And...i will stick to my scooby...that's why i bought one, you PLONKA!!!
ouch ouch ouch
well I'm not in the habit of flaming people but you clearly have an opinion that you want, no demand, everyone to abide by. If people out there think the car is crap fine, don't buy it, voice your opinion and clear off to whatever other forum you frequent but to practically 'order' people not to buy it is just a little rude. Especially as you haven't driven the damn thing so can't give ANY practical reasons why
How about I tell everyone to not buy a Subaru as they are heavy lumbering eyesores that any twit, myself included, can drive fast and have the appeal of the chav population.
Well, that may or may not be my opinion but I aint going on a Subaru forum to voice it. That would be a bit rude and people would probably, no, certainly, flame me for inciting bad feeling.
I see there are faults with the car, its overpriced... erm thats it really. Very pretty, interior is nice and it caters to a particular customer. And they are only building 500 a year.
I haven't driven it so can't comment on the dynamics but am happy to read the reviews which say it drives as a Lotus should, brilliantly.
Perhaps you should consider your comments before imposing your views on fans of a particular marque, especially as you don't appear to own a Lotus at all...
Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Tuesday 10th October 12:26
You really don't get it do you. The very end of my post says " all the indicators tell me Don't buy one. I wasn't telling anyone else not to buy one, just me!! And i wasn't ordering anyone to do anything at all. You really ought to get yourself a decent education and learn to read properly, and i suspect a new pair of glasses might help too. If you can't take some critique levied against a car, just because you own an old Esprit and are clearly a Lotus Fan (which i happen to think is a lovely car),...not levied at you...but at car, then you really shouldn't be on here. I've driven an Elise and an Exige and i thought they were absolutely fabulous cars,
i have driven an old Elan as well which i thought was a peach, so i have absolutely no issue with Lotus, just this particular car. BTW...You get all sorts of car fans on here, this isn't exclusively a Lotus forum and i bet a lot of the people that commented on this particular subject and gave their opinions don't even own a Lotus, so you are talking crap.
This is what PistonHeads is all about, experessing your opinion, having a rant, reading what other people think etc, etc..., and thats exactly what i have come here to do. This is a fourm for everyone. The comments you made above and have levied at me after my original posting just go to show that you really are a complete and utter PLONKA, and you don't read properly or fully understand what is being said.
I will have my say on here just like everyone else is entitled to, and i won't clear off. That's why i joined. If you don't like it you clear off. P.S. If you go onto the Suabru forums and make comments to them as you have made to me they will verbally tear you apart, and rightly so because you are talking utter rubbish. Now...GO AWAY you sad man!!
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
VladD said:
There have been all these comparisons to the Elise/Exige, but would an Esprit V8 be a better alternative if you want more of a GT than a sports car. Has anyone driven both and got an opinion?
This car could be a daily driver for me, so would that rule an Esprit out? Would an M3 be more sensible?
I'm so confused.
This car could be a daily driver for me, so would that rule an Esprit out? Would an M3 be more sensible?
I'm so confused.
Hi Vlad,
Having owned an Elise and almost bought an Esprit after test driving loads of them (best was a GT3) I'd say an Esprit is a supercar - certainly not a daily driver, and an Elise is a nimble little sportscar - but not really a daily driver either (though has low running costs and good economy).
If you really need a daily driver, buy a cheap but fun 205 GTi or Clio Williams and keep the Lotus for the weekend!
Fox
---
P.S. Yes, the M3 (even an E30 original like I used to have) is FAR more practical than any Elise or Esprit.
Lotus will always have a limited development budget unless it sells its soul to one of the bigger car companies, and that would be such a great loss that I pray it never happens. Engines (I assume) are the most expensive bit to develop and so, although a fully-Lotus engine would be something to behold, it seems a price worth paying to use someone else's. Add to that the miracles Lotus perform on otherwise very ordinary engines and the sacrifice appears well worthwhile.
My difficulty with the Europa is its looks. I've read a lot of comments that it looks good in the right colour, from a certain angle and in the right lighting conditions, and that it doesn't photograph well. I think this is missing the point.
The Series 1 and 2 Elises and Exiges look good in every colour and lighting conditions and I've never seen a bad photograph of one. The body-designs are so perfect that I am constantly amazed how good they look from every conceivable angle. This is why they attract so many admiring glances from other people, even if they only catch a fleeting glimpse. The 340R is absolutely stunning, 'nuff said.
The fact that they drive every bit as good as they look is just very thick icing on an extremely large cake!
I never tell people I drive a Lotus Elise. I tell them I drive a Lotus. The fact that all current models are so brilliant, both in looks and performance, makes specifying the model unneccessary. By introducing one less-than-perfect design into a line-up containing such a small number of models is risking diluting the kudos attached to the brand. The Europa will be a rare sight on the roads, and so most people's opinion of it will be from photographs, and it simply doesn't look good enough to be a Lotus in pictures.
Admittedly Lotus have given themselves an almost impossible act to follow in the Elise and the Exige, but that is the magic of the company - just when you think they can't make something better, they go ahead and do just that! Except this time.
Surely drawing the lines differently on the blueprints wouldn't have been too expensive?
My difficulty with the Europa is its looks. I've read a lot of comments that it looks good in the right colour, from a certain angle and in the right lighting conditions, and that it doesn't photograph well. I think this is missing the point.
The Series 1 and 2 Elises and Exiges look good in every colour and lighting conditions and I've never seen a bad photograph of one. The body-designs are so perfect that I am constantly amazed how good they look from every conceivable angle. This is why they attract so many admiring glances from other people, even if they only catch a fleeting glimpse. The 340R is absolutely stunning, 'nuff said.
The fact that they drive every bit as good as they look is just very thick icing on an extremely large cake!
I never tell people I drive a Lotus Elise. I tell them I drive a Lotus. The fact that all current models are so brilliant, both in looks and performance, makes specifying the model unneccessary. By introducing one less-than-perfect design into a line-up containing such a small number of models is risking diluting the kudos attached to the brand. The Europa will be a rare sight on the roads, and so most people's opinion of it will be from photographs, and it simply doesn't look good enough to be a Lotus in pictures.
Admittedly Lotus have given themselves an almost impossible act to follow in the Elise and the Exige, but that is the magic of the company - just when you think they can't make something better, they go ahead and do just that! Except this time.
Surely drawing the lines differently on the blueprints wouldn't have been too expensive?
The Europa is a good looking car compared to other euro boxes driving around! The stunning looks of the Elise and Esprit are hard acts to follow but sits neatly beside. I agree it is not the easiest of cars to get in and out of but it feels very roomy inside considering my 6 ft plus height and would be a more pleasant to drive over long distances. There has been a lot of negative press but please don't judge until you've had a chance to test drive. You won't be dissapointed!. I was at the Lotus factory on Monday for the Esprit get together. I approached the Europa full of doubts but it really is superb to drive. In fact, just about everyone on the day who drove it were shocked by just how good it is. I am an Esprit owner but would be proud to own one even though the Exige S would be fighting for space too! I genuinely believe this car is worth a chance. Any new Lotus has to be a good thing and worthy of celebration.
frank987 said:
scoobiewrx said:
cross-eyed-twit said:
quote from ScoobyWRX:
Well ermmm...as your name suggests...you must be a cross-eyed-twit...everyone is entitled to an opinion including myself and if that really upsets you...go somewhere else. I wasn't putting anything into anyones mouth. Uncross your eyes a bit and you might see that i said at the end of my posting... "Sorry to be so ccritical and i may be completely wrong"... And...i will stick to my scooby...that's why i bought one, you PLONKA!!!
ouch ouch ouch
well I'm not in the habit of flaming people but you clearly have an opinion that you want, no demand, everyone to abide by. If people out there think the car is crap fine, don't buy it, voice your opinion and clear off to whatever other forum you frequent but to practically 'order' people not to buy it is just a little rude. Especially as you haven't driven the damn thing so can't give ANY practical reasons why
How about I tell everyone to not buy a Subaru as they are heavy lumbering eyesores that any twit, myself included, can drive fast and have the appeal of the chav population.
Well, that may or may not be my opinion but I aint going on a Subaru forum to voice it. That would be a bit rude and people would probably, no, certainly, flame me for inciting bad feeling.
I see there are faults with the car, its overpriced... erm thats it really. Very pretty, interior is nice and it caters to a particular customer. And they are only building 500 a year.
I haven't driven it so can't comment on the dynamics but am happy to read the reviews which say it drives as a Lotus should, brilliantly.
Perhaps you should consider your comments before imposing your views on fans of a particular marque, especially as you don't appear to own a Lotus at all...
Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Tuesday 10th October 12:26
You really don't get it do you. The very end of my post says " all the indicators tell me Don't buy one. I wasn't telling anyone else not to buy one, just me!! And i wasn't ordering anyone to do anything at all. You really ought to get yourself a decent education and learn to read properly, and i suspect a new pair of glasses might help too. If you can't take some critique levied against a car, just because you own an old Esprit and are clearly a Lotus Fan (which i happen to think is a lovely car),...not levied at you...but at car, then you really shouldn't be on here. I've driven an Elise and an Exige and i thought they were absolutely fabulous cars,
i have driven an old Elan as well which i thought was a peach, so i have absolutely no issue with Lotus, just this particular car. BTW...You get all sorts of car fans on here, this isn't exclusively a Lotus forum and i bet a lot of the people that commented on this particular subject and gave their opinions don't even own a Lotus, so you are talking crap.
This is what PistonHeads is all about, experessing your opinion, having a rant, reading what other people think etc, etc..., and thats exactly what i have come here to do. This is a fourm for everyone. The comments you made above and have levied at me after my original posting just go to show that you really are a complete and utter PLONKA, and you don't read properly or fully understand what is being said.
I will have my say on here just like everyone else is entitled to, and i won't clear off. That's why i joined. If you don't like it you clear off. P.S. If you go onto the Suabru forums and make comments to them as you have made to me they will verbally tear you apart, and rightly so because you are talking utter rubbish. Now...GO AWAY you sad man!!
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
Hi Frank,
Many thanks for the support on that, there are some idiots on here and that is so unfortunate. Lucky for us they are few and far between.
Cheers, Francis
TheYeti said:
The Europa is a very, very good car if you take it for what it is
And STOP comparing it to an Elise/Exige and thinking its a "upmarket and toned down" version of those cars. Its not. I drove it, was very impressed by it, loved the way it looked in the flesh cos the pictures don't do it justice and the reviews are way off the mark as none of them have actually seen the "point" of the Europa, which is low volume to keep an already loyal Lotus fanbase happy with good driving dynamics, yet slightly more practicality and comfort for the customer who has already owned Elise/Exige, loved it, but can't do with the inconvenience these cars bring with them anymore.
I don't think Lotus had a hope in hell of trying to "lure" people away from Caymans, Z4's etc. It just wanted to keep its own loyal customer base and bring back in the people who have always hankered after a Lotus, yet not been able to do it. I mean, they are only going to be selling 200 a year in the country as it is!!!
If you bare all this in mind, the Europa is a cracking piece of kit. I went with the assumption that I might not like it cos of the reviews and what I thought was going to be a very soft Lotus. Its FAR from it.......
And STOP comparing it to an Elise/Exige and thinking its a "upmarket and toned down" version of those cars. Its not. I drove it, was very impressed by it, loved the way it looked in the flesh cos the pictures don't do it justice and the reviews are way off the mark as none of them have actually seen the "point" of the Europa, which is low volume to keep an already loyal Lotus fanbase happy with good driving dynamics, yet slightly more practicality and comfort for the customer who has already owned Elise/Exige, loved it, but can't do with the inconvenience these cars bring with them anymore.
I don't think Lotus had a hope in hell of trying to "lure" people away from Caymans, Z4's etc. It just wanted to keep its own loyal customer base and bring back in the people who have always hankered after a Lotus, yet not been able to do it. I mean, they are only going to be selling 200 a year in the country as it is!!!
If you bare all this in mind, the Europa is a cracking piece of kit. I went with the assumption that I might not like it cos of the reviews and what I thought was going to be a very soft Lotus. Its FAR from it.......
I was gonna say that - more or less!Thanks for saving me the effort.
scoobiewrx said:
frank987 said:
[quote=scoobiewrx][quote=cross-eyed-twit]
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
Hi Frank,
Many thanks for the support on that, there are some idiots on here and that is so unfortunate. Lucky for us they are few and far between.
Cheers, Francis
Yeah well done for having a big row about a car you're clearly not interested in buying at all, that you've not driven and totally written off by what it looks like and what you've read in a few newspaper articles.
Job's a good'un
S works said:
scoobiewrx said:
frank987 said:
[quote=scoobiewrx][quote=cross-eyed-twit]
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
Hi Frank,
Many thanks for the support on that, there are some idiots on here and that is so unfortunate. Lucky for us they are few and far between.
Cheers, Francis
Yeah well done for having a big row about a car you're clearly not interested in buying at all, that you've not driven and totally written off by what it looks like and what you've read in a few newspaper articles.
Job's a good'un
Your the one, the die hard Lotus fan who defended a car he had never driven at the time
frank987 said:
S works said:
scoobiewrx said:
frank987 said:
[quote=scoobiewrx][quote=cross-eyed-twit]
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
Hi Frank,
Many thanks for the support on that, there are some idiots on here and that is so unfortunate. Lucky for us they are few and far between.
Cheers, Francis
Yeah well done for having a big row about a car you're clearly not interested in buying at all, that you've not driven and totally written off by what it looks like and what you've read in a few newspaper articles.
Job's a good'un
Your the one, the die hard Lotus fan who defended a car he had never driven at the time
And how am I defending it confucious? With reasoned thought and a suggestion that actually driving it before you write it off OR by making sweeping generalisations?
You're as bad as each other.
As a long term owner of Elise and Exige (111R currently) and former TVR Tamora owner I love the idea of a slightly more practical Lotus that doesn't betray its origins. I drove the car three weeks ago and really enjoyed it, quick, torquey, more refined, better finished, more comfortable and yet still with the essence of Lotus (the DNA as they refer to it). For most owners using their cars regularly this solves the conumdrum of having two cars, one for work, one for pleasure.
I met a Excel owner whilst at my dealer Peter Smith Sportscars and in him found someone who was immediately attracted to Europa. He's not bought a new Lotus for years but here is something he'd buy.
As for competition - let's be honest it doesn't have any! There is nothing that drives like the Europa and combines its ease of use with the performance and the exclusivity for the money. We can all point to used cars that cost the same - but they're used. I've driven the Porsche and the BMW and they are fantastic cars in their own right but feel anodyne compared to a Lotus - even Europa.
People must put into context where this car is positioned and as previous posts have said make up their own minds - and you MUST drive the car for yourself. Media hype surrounds our daily lives, I'm a believer in making up my own mind and thank-you for letting me express my opinion via this site.
Luca Di Montezemolo has done a similar thing to Lotus with Ferrari. It's tuned their cars for more daily usage but kept the essence of Ferrari and the brand is as successful and more profitable than ever. Lotus therefore will have no trouble selling 500 cars per annum, residuals will be good (providing dealers and second buyers realise that these cars will have higher mileages on them) and owners will covet something special.
I met a Excel owner whilst at my dealer Peter Smith Sportscars and in him found someone who was immediately attracted to Europa. He's not bought a new Lotus for years but here is something he'd buy.
As for competition - let's be honest it doesn't have any! There is nothing that drives like the Europa and combines its ease of use with the performance and the exclusivity for the money. We can all point to used cars that cost the same - but they're used. I've driven the Porsche and the BMW and they are fantastic cars in their own right but feel anodyne compared to a Lotus - even Europa.
People must put into context where this car is positioned and as previous posts have said make up their own minds - and you MUST drive the car for yourself. Media hype surrounds our daily lives, I'm a believer in making up my own mind and thank-you for letting me express my opinion via this site.
Luca Di Montezemolo has done a similar thing to Lotus with Ferrari. It's tuned their cars for more daily usage but kept the essence of Ferrari and the brand is as successful and more profitable than ever. Lotus therefore will have no trouble selling 500 cars per annum, residuals will be good (providing dealers and second buyers realise that these cars will have higher mileages on them) and owners will covet something special.
S works said:
frank987 said:
S works said:
scoobiewrx said:
frank987 said:
[quote=scoobiewrx][quote=cross-eyed-twit]
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
Hi Frank,
Many thanks for the support on that, there are some idiots on here and that is so unfortunate. Lucky for us they are few and far between.
Cheers, Francis
Yeah well done for having a big row about a car you're clearly not interested in buying at all, that you've not driven and totally written off by what it looks like and what you've read in a few newspaper articles.
Job's a good'un
Your the one, the die hard Lotus fan who defended a car he had never driven at the time
And how am I defending it confucious? With reasoned thought and a suggestion that actually driving it before you write it off OR by making sweeping generalisations?
You're as bad as each other.
I can't see the point in wasting a salesman's time by driving a car that I find ugly. I don't like the Europa, not for it's handling and performance (which I am sure is fantastic) but for it's design and packaging i.e. too impractical for MY needs. That's not a sweeping generalisation, that's a focused opinion based on sitting in and looking around a Europa for 30 mins. You would like anything with a Lotus badge on!
Sorry if my opinion offends you, S Works. The whole point of this forum is for people to express their own opinions.
frank987 said:
S works said:
frank987 said:
S works said:
scoobiewrx said:
frank987 said:
[quote=scoobiewrx][quote=cross-eyed-twit]
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
Hi Frank,
Many thanks for the support on that, there are some idiots on here and that is so unfortunate. Lucky for us they are few and far between.
Cheers, Francis
Yeah well done for having a big row about a car you're clearly not interested in buying at all, that you've not driven and totally written off by what it looks like and what you've read in a few newspaper articles.
Job's a good'un
Your the one, the die hard Lotus fan who defended a car he had never driven at the time
And how am I defending it confucious? With reasoned thought and a suggestion that actually driving it before you write it off OR by making sweeping generalisations?
You're as bad as each other.
I can't see the point in wasting a salesman's time by driving a car that I find ugly. I don't like the Europa, not for it's handling and performance (which I am sure is fantastic) but for it's design and packaging i.e. too impractical for MY needs. That's not a sweeping generalisation, that's a focused opinion based on sitting in and looking around a Europa for 30 mins. You would like anything with a Lotus badge on!
Sorry if my opinion offends you, S Works. The whole point of this forum is for people to express their own opinions.
No offence at all. I wouldn't, and don't, like 'anything with a Lotus badge on' (which deffo IS a sweeping generalisation).
Dismissing a car completely because it's not practical for your needs is somewhat shortsighted in my opinion, but I'll agree to disagree.
S works said:
scoobiewrx said:
frank987 said:
[quote=scoobiewrx][quote=cross-eyed-twit]
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
<<snip>>
Well said mate. I had the same sort of aggressive posts, after I'd made comments about the Europa, from a die hard Lotus fan. The usual "have you ever owned a Lotus" (I had, and loved it very much).
Hi Frank,
Many thanks for the support on that, there are some idiots on here and that is so unfortunate. Lucky for us they are few and far between.
Cheers, Francis
Yeah well done for having a big row about a car you're clearly not interested in buying at all, that you've not driven and totally written off by what it looks like and what you've read in a few newspaper articles.
Job's a good'un
My original post was that the car wasn't for me and i wouldn't buy one. Motoring journos make a living about offering their professional opinions on cars after they have driven and assesed all the pro's and cons. A lot of journos working for different mags said basically the same thing about the europa and i based my decision on what they had to say. If you look at TopGear on TV for example, and the mag, what they have to say about various vehicles carries a lot of clout with the general viewing/reading public.
The die-hard Lotus fan that got really upset re: the comment i made about the Europa, insulted me personally and came at me in a way that really wasn't on. It showed him up to be a total plonka. I defended my corner which i feel i was entitled to do. I wasn't arguing about the car, he was. All i was doing was pointing out that he didn't read my post properly or understand what i said and got completely the wrong end of the stick.
I see that you are another die hard Lotus fan and your comment simply tells me that you haven't read all of the posts between myself and cross-eyed-twit to understand what it was actually all about. If you had i don't think you'd have made that comment. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this forum, but they are not entitled to lash out personally at others in such a manner that envokes bad feeling and ultimately superheated discussions.
I don't think i am wrong in saying that, and after all...It's only a bloody Car!!!
Edited by scoobiewrx on Friday 13th October 13:51
I think if Lotus had a blueprint for a GT car in front of them, its because they wrote it!
anyway, to summerise:
1. you posted a sweeping statement
2. I criticised it
3. you insulted me . . . . . . . . . . (thats where you lost btw)
4. I got bored and went and drove one
5. Affirmed that its a great little GT car, well done Lotus.
Still can't afford one though...
and I quite like Imprezas, they tend to let me past.
anyway, to summerise:
1. you posted a sweeping statement
2. I criticised it
3. you insulted me . . . . . . . . . . (thats where you lost btw)
4. I got bored and went and drove one
5. Affirmed that its a great little GT car, well done Lotus.
Still can't afford one though...
and I quite like Imprezas, they tend to let me past.
scoobiewrx said:
The answer is no, no and definately no again. The Exige and Elise are great modern sports cars but the Europa is a pile of poo!!! All the reviews i have read on the Europa say that basically it's just not worth the bother, and no more a GT car than a Morris Minor. It doesn't look that great either.
Sorry to be so critical and i may be completely wrong as i have never driven one but all the indicators say to me DON'T BUY ONE!!!
Francis
Sorry to be so critical and i may be completely wrong as i have never driven one but all the indicators say to me DON'T BUY ONE!!!
Francis
Summing up this topic - you can't please all of the people all of the time, everybody has and is entitled to their own opinion and in my opinion a lot gassing about an ugly car that may or may not drive well but will not sell because its too damn ugly. Hope it doesn't start the demise of lotus and they revise the styling soon (when it doesn't sell) and that the europaII looks as good as the EliseII.
This is what you replied to my original posting:
I'm sorry, are you paid by Lotus' competitors to say these things? sounds like you are putting words into peoples mouths. Why don't you drive one before you slag them off, or just stick to your 'Scooby' which is in my opinion, shit.
thanks. Lotus use a 'Scooby' like yours to drag a water bowser round their handling circuit. very reliable apparently.
As follows:
1. You said to me perosnally my car was shit, and intimated in a sarcastic manner that it was probably only any good as a water carrier, but a reliable one. That's where you lost. I never said your car was shit or anything of the sort. Just the Europa. It wasn't a sweeping statement.
2. It was after that posting, i called you a PLONKA!! And rightly so.
3. You then proceeded further to tell me to clear off as maybe somehow i didn't have the right to make comments about the Europa and i wasn't welcome, just because i haven't driven one.
4. No other Lotus owners except SWorks, or devotees have seen fit to bother making comments about my original posting, or have attacked me for saying what i said about the Europa, which means that you really were the only one to get so hot and bothered about it.
5. You have just contradicted what you said about Scoobies...Now you like them??
YOU HAVEN'T A CLUE DO YOU
This has now become a very boring and pointless excercise. Clearly we have a difference of opinions and it should stay that way, but don't attack people for having an opinion and don't get personal about it either because you will just get it right back at you!!
I'm sorry, are you paid by Lotus' competitors to say these things? sounds like you are putting words into peoples mouths. Why don't you drive one before you slag them off, or just stick to your 'Scooby' which is in my opinion, shit.
thanks. Lotus use a 'Scooby' like yours to drag a water bowser round their handling circuit. very reliable apparently.
As follows:
1. You said to me perosnally my car was shit, and intimated in a sarcastic manner that it was probably only any good as a water carrier, but a reliable one. That's where you lost. I never said your car was shit or anything of the sort. Just the Europa. It wasn't a sweeping statement.
2. It was after that posting, i called you a PLONKA!! And rightly so.
3. You then proceeded further to tell me to clear off as maybe somehow i didn't have the right to make comments about the Europa and i wasn't welcome, just because i haven't driven one.
4. No other Lotus owners except SWorks, or devotees have seen fit to bother making comments about my original posting, or have attacked me for saying what i said about the Europa, which means that you really were the only one to get so hot and bothered about it.
5. You have just contradicted what you said about Scoobies...Now you like them??
YOU HAVEN'T A CLUE DO YOU
This has now become a very boring and pointless excercise. Clearly we have a difference of opinions and it should stay that way, but don't attack people for having an opinion and don't get personal about it either because you will just get it right back at you!!
Edited by scoobiewrx on Sunday 15th October 09:30
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