US Elise engine chosen
Discussion
adeewuff, I agree - the Elise is about handling. We were just discussing the U.S. engine. I intend to race this car *and* drive it on the street. If I could live with a track only car I would have bought the s190.
I hope as well that they don't add any extraneous weight. I will opt for the A/C delete. Does anyone know exactly how much more the U.S. elise will weigh?
I hope as well that they don't add any extraneous weight. I will opt for the A/C delete. Does anyone know exactly how much more the U.S. elise will weigh?
Time to revive this thread... I was trolling through the Lotus news articles, and found that the elise air con unit weighs 15kg (33lbs for americans)... theres no way I'm deleting that then, I can't imagine anyone beinag able to detect that difference in the car...
www.lotuscars.co.uk/template.cfm?name=Lotus%5FElise%5FHardtop%5Fand%5FAir%5FConditioning
also, for people who have deposits and are waiting a good collection of pictures of the colour options are on:
www.kirschmann.ch/lotus/index.html
gunmetal grey with black anodised wheels for me I think
either that or the JSP scheme.
www.lotuscars.co.uk/template.cfm?name=Lotus%5FElise%5FHardtop%5Fand%5FAir%5FConditioning
also, for people who have deposits and are waiting a good collection of pictures of the colour options are on:
www.kirschmann.ch/lotus/index.html
gunmetal grey with black anodised wheels for me I think
either that or the JSP scheme. 
I love the "Heritage"quote:
theres no way I'm deleting that then, I can't imagine anyone beinag able to detect that difference in the car...
Thanks for the info. Since you live in LA you might actually use the A/C. Here in Seattle it's just dead weight 99% of the time.
I like the yellow - classic race color and everyone will see you! For safety reasons, of course.
Well its nice the speculation is over but i have some questions regarding the engine someone might be able to answer. Does the toyota engine weigh significantly more than the k-series, and what are the naturally asperated tuning possiblities of this as compared to the K-series(there is an exellent guide for the k-series linked on this site).
thanks,
gsb
thanks,
gsb
Since the engine choice is so important to not only US customers but also to the RoW, I like to start the speculation again about the engine.
I fear that the Toyota engine might be wishful thinking..... What if it is NOT the Toy engine?
There are also some rumors about the V6 from the M250 for the Elise. Were has that engine gone?
Any comments?
I fear that the Toyota engine might be wishful thinking..... What if it is NOT the Toy engine?
There are also some rumors about the V6 from the M250 for the Elise. Were has that engine gone?
Any comments?
I agree that the GT1 was a beast, I'm sure Lotus would have sold quite a few if they had made a road/track going version of it.
It's just that if Lotus were to put a V6 in an Elise it would start to compete, price wise, with Boxsters and Audi TTs. Now IMHO Lotus can't hope to start targeting that range of the market with the Elise. Build quality is still a big issue and the little Elise just isn't luxurious or comfortable enough to convince Audi, BMW or Porsche buyers.
Lotus desperately need a M250 type vehicle to take on these cars. It could stay true to the Lotus principles but have more room, more power and even better handling than the Elise. If this car was created then this would be the cash cow that Lotus need to finance their other projects.
Just tarting up what is effectively a stripped out race car isn't enough to sell it as a luxury sports car. I know the name carries alot of weight but Lotus don't have the build quality to match it yet. I really hope they sort themselves out before risking the Elise name in the states. If they get it wrong then it will prove to be very embarrasing and costly.
It's just that if Lotus were to put a V6 in an Elise it would start to compete, price wise, with Boxsters and Audi TTs. Now IMHO Lotus can't hope to start targeting that range of the market with the Elise. Build quality is still a big issue and the little Elise just isn't luxurious or comfortable enough to convince Audi, BMW or Porsche buyers.
Lotus desperately need a M250 type vehicle to take on these cars. It could stay true to the Lotus principles but have more room, more power and even better handling than the Elise. If this car was created then this would be the cash cow that Lotus need to finance their other projects.
Just tarting up what is effectively a stripped out race car isn't enough to sell it as a luxury sports car. I know the name carries alot of weight but Lotus don't have the build quality to match it yet. I really hope they sort themselves out before risking the Elise name in the states. If they get it wrong then it will prove to be very embarrasing and costly.
well Road and Track rated the European S2 with 122 bhp second to the Ferrari 360 in their test of the best handling cars. It won the contest by performance data alone(competition was 360, z06 vette, bmw m3, porche boxster s and 911 turbo just to name a few) but was second for lack of amenities. ah add a/c to mine with more bhp! oh and the elise has the new record for speed in the slalom test with 73 mph! 
great article...good suggested read.
great article...good suggested read.
quote:
C'mon!,Colin Chapman said "to go faster add lightness"!!!!!!!!
Yes but he was limited by engine size. Lotus road cars are not and I've driven the standard S1 Elise and it was/is low on power, they have made the same mistake with the S2. The exige I drove was much better but still I would imagine after about a year I would want more. The G pushing you back just isn't enough IMHO.
In all fairness whilst I have the greatest repect for one of the best engineers/innovators the world has ever seen, Colin was also renoun for building fragile cars. In fact he used to believe he had over-engineered it, if the car finished with no problems.
One problem Lotus is facing is that the Noble, Tvr, Ultima etc. all have far more power and this is the market they are competing with (enthusiast more than social label IMHO). I don't ever see Lotus as competetion to Audi, BMW or Porsche as Adeewuff has said (the build quality isn't there), but there are lots of people like myself that don't want luxury sports cars they want racing pedigree. Have you seen inside a Ferarri F40? luxury it ain't!
>> Edited by smeagol on Tuesday 7th May 01:03
IMHO over here the elise will be in direct competition with the S2000, the TT and maybe even the Boxsters. The Lotus name carries alot of weight. People who buy TTs and the like are already making a significant sacrifice for performance over here. If you want luxury you drive an SUV with satellite nav, and 4 tv/dvd sets in the back for the kids. I believe that if the've gone that far a significant number will take one more step and get a lotus.
Steve
Steve
quote:
IMHO over here the elise will be in direct competition with the S2000, the TT and maybe even the Boxsters. The Lotus name carries alot of weight. People who buy TTs and the like are already making a significant sacrifice for performance over here.
This what I'm really scared about, the Lotus cannot compete with the cars. No way! I've had the chance to at least sit in all the cars you mentioned above and those cars are fantastically built and designed. The Lotus Elise can compete on handling and looks but it ends there.
There are several things that you should be aware of when buying the Elise.
1) You WILL get wet! The soft top can be adjusted so as to deflect most of the water but you will get dripped on.
2) Every bump, every indentation in the road you will either feel or hear. Great for the track but on an everyday interstate? The stiff, light chassis does a fine job of conducting the noise through it's hollow extruded sections.
How do I know this? I had a Lotus Elise S1 for a year and have driven quite a few S2's recently. So the question is would an Audi, Porsche or S2000 driver put up with this for a better handling, lower powered car while still paying the same money? IMHO, and this is only my very small 2 cents worth, No.
Please don't see me as being anti-Lotus because of these views, I ran an Elise and it was one of the best cars I've ever driven and well worth the compromise. It's just that the Elise is the wrong car to be pushed into that market and I can't see it convincing enough people for it to be a success.
I'm not sure that Lotus will have much choice in its competition... and I do understand and agree with almost everything you've said... particularly concerning to me are the freeways here. They are in dreadful condition, and they are a hard enough ride in the cougar.
A quick survey of american friends has put the estmated price of the Elise based on its name at 100 to 200k (USD). Being able to by that perception for 40k will make the elise very popular in the poser crowd unfortunately.
Steve
A quick survey of american friends has put the estmated price of the Elise based on its name at 100 to 200k (USD). Being able to by that perception for 40k will make the elise very popular in the poser crowd unfortunately.
Steve
quote:
It's just that the Elise is the wrong car to be pushed into that market and I can't see it convincing enough people for it to be a success.
I agree adeewuff, the Elise is completely wrong to compete against the makes you mention. The Elise is a "no frills sports car". Its whole cencept/ambiance (whatever) is not to compete with luxury cars. Lotus could be making a huge mistake.
I don't necessarily see it as a mistake... depends on your point of view. If they are competing against the TT and the like, then 1% of that market for Lotus is a huge amount, and therefore financially a success.
I also feel that there will be a significant number of people who can afford one as a second car, which will mean that the car will spend more time doing what it was designed to do on weekend runs in the mountains, and on the track. I see that as a sucess for Lotus too, as more people will come to recognise the rapidly dissapearing car in front as a Lotus.
The only I see danger for Lotus on this is if the build quality is such that expensive repairs/alterations are required. From what I've read on here there are a number of such faults and Brits also (quite rightly) will not just accept all of these as part of owning a performance car, and will demand repairs.
Am I missing something?
I also feel that there will be a significant number of people who can afford one as a second car, which will mean that the car will spend more time doing what it was designed to do on weekend runs in the mountains, and on the track. I see that as a sucess for Lotus too, as more people will come to recognise the rapidly dissapearing car in front as a Lotus.
The only I see danger for Lotus on this is if the build quality is such that expensive repairs/alterations are required. From what I've read on here there are a number of such faults and Brits also (quite rightly) will not just accept all of these as part of owning a performance car, and will demand repairs.
Am I missing something?
I don't think you're missing anything and I think the scale of the states is something that us small island Brits forget sometimes (me included!).
Lotus MUST get the cars in perfect working order at the factory rather than relying on the dealerships in the States sorting the cars out for them. I'm sure new owners to the Lotus Marque don't want to be seen as testbeds for the new engine and any problems that WILL show up!
What really confuses me over the troubles with the S2 Elise is that it is essentially such a simple car. But worse of all is that the problems are so obvious that it seems bizarre that they aren't sorted out during assembly. It's always the niggly little things that irritate car owners, as you know, and there has to be concerted effort to improve quality at the risk of losing there small, fragile reputation.
But if they get it right, and I really, really hope they do, then they can start putting money into developing the M250 replacement to get the big bucks rolling in!
Lotus MUST get the cars in perfect working order at the factory rather than relying on the dealerships in the States sorting the cars out for them. I'm sure new owners to the Lotus Marque don't want to be seen as testbeds for the new engine and any problems that WILL show up!
What really confuses me over the troubles with the S2 Elise is that it is essentially such a simple car. But worse of all is that the problems are so obvious that it seems bizarre that they aren't sorted out during assembly. It's always the niggly little things that irritate car owners, as you know, and there has to be concerted effort to improve quality at the risk of losing there small, fragile reputation.
But if they get it right, and I really, really hope they do, then they can start putting money into developing the M250 replacement to get the big bucks rolling in!
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