Speed Six Rebuild: Power 4.3 or 4.5?

Speed Six Rebuild: Power 4.3 or 4.5?

Author
Discussion

gacksen

680 posts

142 months

Wednesday 13th August 2014
quotequote all
glow worm said:
I hope it was nicely polished and they took photos smile .
they would have biggrin car is currently put away due to some repairs needed.
first will finish another project and then the chim. if they want to see
it in the meantime as germans do they write letters wink

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Wednesday 20th August 2014
quotequote all
Came on here to say meeting Dom on Friday hopefully to talk about a 4.3 rebuild. Problem is I'm now thinking shall I go 4.5 instead? Anyone ever compared the 2? I here even the 4.3 spins wheels easily so is the extra grunt in the 4.5 usable? Cheers lads.

(Even been designing a new look cam cover for it... As well as the artwork for LeMans wink

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Wednesday 20th August 2014
quotequote all
Incognegro said:
Came on here to say meeting Dom on Friday hopefully to talk about a 4.3 rebuild. Problem is I'm now thinking shall I go 4.5 instead? Anyone ever compared the 2? I here even the 4.3 spins wheels easily so is the extra grunt in the 4.5 usable? Cheers lads.

(Even been designing a new look cam cover for it... As well as the artwork for LeMans wink
I think the 4.5 would certainly suit your Cerb - I have always viewed the mighty Cerbera as the 'bruiser' of the range.

If you haven't already got a Hydratrack diff or better, that may also be a worthy investment.

billynobrakes

2,675 posts

264 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
[quote=Incognegro]Came on here to say meeting Dom on Friday hopefully to talk about a 4.3 rebuild. Problem is I'm now thinking shall I go 4.5 instead? Anyone ever compared the 2? I here even the 4.3 spins wheels easily so is the extra grunt in the 4.5 usable? Cheers lads.

Alistair

I was exactly where you are about this time last year , thinking 4.3 or 4.5, I talked to Dom and offers and after months of head banging what should I do confused I decided to go for the 4.5 or knowing me I would always be wandering what the 4.5 is like, I have not driven the 4.3 so I can,t compare them, but all I can say is you will not be disappointed, I don,t think there is a great deal between them but the 4.5 but the torque in the 4.5 is fantastic and its like chalk and cheese compared to 3.6, you don,t have to rev the nuts off it to get it going and not constantly up and down the gears, it is great in traffic as just so easy to drive and it burbles along on the motorway and is no where near as noisy as the 3.6 and so much more smoother but when you hit the loud pedal it just flies, in my little T350 you have to ease the power in in all gears or you will be going side ways, what ever one you go you will love it yes

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
Big thanks Billy. You have just nicely made me bang my head again lol

Sat with Dom today and he gave me a great education but even he persuaded me towards the 4.3 rather than the 4.5 but then closed the convo with you know bigger is always better... lol

I then left thinking yep Im going 4.3 (as I'll blow the 4.2AJPs and slap the 4.5 as its just so much easier to live with the power).

No Ive read that mate hmmm Im thinking, would the 4.3 leave me wondering? will I ever be in a place where I get to its limit and am held back??

Oh well another sleepless night for me lol.

Please keep all thoughts coming in.

Cheers

Griffithy

929 posts

275 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Incognegro said:
Sat with Dom today and he gave me a great education but even he persuaded me towards the 4.3 rather than the 4.5
What were the points Dom did make to persuade you towards 4.3?

billynobrakes

2,675 posts

264 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Incognegro said:
Big thanks Billy. You have just nicely made me bang my head again lol

Sat with Dom today and he gave me a great education but even he persuaded me towards the 4.3 rather than the 4.5 but then closed the convo with you know bigger is always better... lol

I then left thinking yep Im going 4.3 (as I'll blow the 4.2AJPs and slap the 4.5 as its just so much easier to live with the power).

No Ive read that mate hmmm Im thinking, would the 4.3 leave me wondering? will I ever be in a place where I get to its limit and am held back??

Oh well another sleepless night for me lol.

Please keep all thoughts coming in.

Cheers
Glad to be of service wink your going through exactly the same as I was last year banghead if it helps I have my car booked in for the 6000 miles service on 19th September and I am happy to take you out for a quick blast and that might help you deicide

oh and below is the results from the rolling road, that should make banghead even more



Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Griffithy said:
What were the points Dom did make to persuade you towards 4.3?
He was completely relaxed and knows how I drive/treat the car and the kudos I'm after. Basically he said in the 4.3SS no 4.2 or 4.5AJP will outrun me so then it that keeps them quiet. The only ones I gotta worry about are 4.3/5s and LSs (the LS doesn't have the reliability or smoothness so then it's like for like Cerbs or the 4.5SS.

He then said to me the extra from the 4.5 would be driver dependant as to leave the 4.3 behind would be no easy task (but he also knows the overall setup I have (full act decat sport pipe, Nitrons, 18" SP12s, silicone coolant pipes and vented bonnet which keeps the front pinned to the road) not to mention the Alcantara steering wheel (which in itself adds 8bhp)... Lol

So in my mind the extra £2k is relative, would I notice the extra as I may not be that confident to go there etc add that to limits of other road users and safety etc bearing in mind I may only track it once in its lifetime so it will be uk and the drives down to south of France. How likely will I be to cross a car to beat that (highly unlikely) example I was behind a lovely lotus exige on my way back from Power and when there was space he would floor it I would too but me not dropping gear. Yes he was very swift but he'd be reeled in and then traffic so nothing ever conclusive.

All in all for me the 4.3 is the way to go and the £2k saving can fund the Monaco roadtrip lol

Hope that explains mate.

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Incognegro said:
He was completely relaxed and knows how I drive/treat the car and the kudos I'm after. Basically he said in the 4.3SS no 4.2 or 4.5AJP will outrun me so then it that keeps them quiet. The only ones I gotta worry about are 4.3/5s and LSs (the LS doesn't have the reliability or smoothness so then it's like for like Cerbs or the 4.5SS.

He then said to me the extra from the 4.5 would be driver dependant as to leave the 4.3 behind would be no easy task (but he also knows the overall setup I have (full act decat sport pipe, Nitrons, 18" SP12s, silicone coolant pipes and vented bonnet which keeps the front pinned to the road) not to mention the Alcantara steering wheel (which in itself adds 8bhp)... Lol

So in my mind the extra £2k is relative, would I notice the extra as I may not be that confident to go there etc add that to limits of other road users and safety etc bearing in mind I may only track it once in its lifetime so it will be uk and the drives down to south of France. How likely will I be to cross a car to beat that (highly unlikely) example I was behind a lovely lotus exige on my way back from Power and when there was space he would floor it I would too but me not dropping gear. Yes he was very swift but he'd be reeled in and then traffic so nothing ever conclusive.

All in all for me the 4.3 is the way to go and the £2k saving can fund the Monaco roadtrip lol

Hope that explains mate.
Thanks for that - I too was in two minds about the 4.5, but I think the 4.3 would be more than enough for me (especially for a Tamora). I was even thinking that, perhaps with the money saved over a 4.5, what about the new knock sensors/MBE?

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Glad I was informative. What is the knock MBE I see mentioned about mate? The money saved may go towards having my throttle bodies redone and the placebo effect of lightweight flywheel.

Also having the custom map with whatever engine I go for though.

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
billynobrakes said:
Glad to be of service wink your going through exactly the same as I was last year banghead if it helps I have my car booked in for the 6000 miles service on 19th September and I am happy to take you out for a quick blast and that might help you deicide

oh and below is the results from the rolling road, that should make banghead even more


That's one hell of a graph 414 at the rear wheels?! If I'm about then which I should be I'll try to pop along, is that first 6k since the rebuild? How's it all been?

gacksen

680 posts

142 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Incognegro said:
That's one hell of a graph 414 at the rear wheels?! If I'm about then which I should be I'll try to pop along, is that first 6k since the rebuild? How's it all been?
dont worry it´s on the fly wink

at the wheels this is no easy task and a lot more money will go into the car......

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Incognegro said:
Glad I was informative. What is the knock MBE I see mentioned about mate? The money saved may go towards having my throttle bodies redone and the placebo effect of lightweight flywheel.

Also having the custom map with whatever engine I go for though.
Actually, thinking about it, the MBE ECU thingie is £3k, am wondering if a custom map would suffice.

I had a super-lightweight flywheel added to my wife's MG, everyone told me it would be a nightmare when pulling off, stalling etc. The reality is that the difference is infinitesimal. I assume it would be the same with the S6 - but I'm gonna have it anyway.. hehe

Oh, this is the page for the new MBE:

http://www.powersperformance.co.uk/store/slug/mbe-...

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
The fact Dom never suggested it to me in our lengthy chat tells me I'm going the bespoke map route... I really was picking his brain but what it means is it makes my car unique again as he'll take into account all I have geo wise etc and just give me a brill car that's liveable as the latest Jags but goes like the Lambos.

He says I won't go looking for its limits as everything will be well within reach in normal driving. The map will go in after about 2k miles that way he maps a loose run in engine rather than a tight restricted one.

I'm now thinking about the day I first collect it after the rebuild and have to run the lump in ill be looking at every little aspect thinking OMG this is a beaut, so glad I never went the SL55 route.

Griffithy

929 posts

275 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Incognegro said:
not to mention the Alcantara steering wheel (which in itself adds 8bhp)...
Thank you very much!!!!

So, trying to understand you right,
the real way to go would be the BIG Alcantara steering wheel,
would add a minimum of 16bhp then.




Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Griffithy said:
Thank you very much!!!!

So, trying to understand you right,
the real way to go would be the BIG Alcantara steering wheel,
would add a minimum of 16bhp then.
If you want the full 16bhp then it has to be an Alcantara steering wheel with a yellow centre stripe at the top of it, anything else is just 8bhp LOL smile

billynobrakes

2,675 posts

264 months

Saturday 23rd August 2014
quotequote all
Incognegro said:
That's one hell of a graph 414 at the rear wheels?! If I'm about then which I should be I'll try to pop along, is that first 6k since the rebuild? How's it all been?
I will be at Doms about 11am and take you for a blast, it's just awesome love it , yes it's the first 6000 miles service, you could drop me to the station

MartH70

92 posts

151 months

Sunday 24th August 2014
quotequote all
Griffithy

Thank you very much!!!!

So, trying to understand you right,
the real way to go would be the BIG Alcantara steering wheel,
would add a minimum of 16bhp then.



Martin, just ring dom and tell him you need the 5 litre!!! :-)

Seriously, the 4.3 sounds ideal, new rods and crank on top of everything else you get with the 4 litre rebuild, you just need to work out how to get it to him....

gacksen

680 posts

142 months

Sunday 24th August 2014
quotequote all
MartH70 said:
Griffithy

and tell him you need the 5 litre!!! :-)
what´s the max rev with that one ? 4.3 is down on revs a lot compared to the 3.6.
if i would have to pay for an upgrade would go for a high rev 3.7 instead.
should get you the same numbers but possible to take it up to 8000 or higher instead
of reducing revs due to bigger bore biggrin

Edited by gacksen on Sunday 24th August 18:24

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Sunday 24th August 2014
quotequote all
I have always thought that the S6 was designed to rev to and beyond 8k. A properly balanced engine should be able to do this, shouldn't it, irrespective of the CC?