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RedSpike66

2,194 posts

98 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
[bold_statement] Leave the suspension alone... [/bold_statement]

Was chatting to Graham Varley at Cadwell on Monday, and he has three way Nitrons fitted, and is having hell of a problem getting them set up right. He advised me to keep to the Billys.

It is apparently true that Bilstein and a rather talented bloke spent a lot of time at Bristol Avenue setting up the Sagaris suspension, and it certainly worked great for me at Cadwell (but I'm no racing driver !)

alex_gray255

4,637 posts

91 months

[news] 
Saturday 4th August 2012 quote quote all
I had Nitrons fitted and setup by bespoke in ware, they work fine.

Admittedly I don't track the car, but it feels as well setup as my lotus which is extremely responsive.

Just what I found...

spitfire4v8

1,896 posts

67 months

[news] 
Saturday 4th August 2012 quote quote all
3 way dampers means the possibility of 3 times the opportunity to get it wrong at each end. If you don't know how 3 ways work, buy one way dampers. Graham has been badly advised, or given insufficient tuition on how to set them up. It's not the fault of the dampers.

Don1

Original Poster:

10,865 posts

94 months

[news] 
Saturday 4th August 2012 quote quote all
I have to say the reason I'm looking at the suspension is Mr Blacks fault. (Well, it's good to blame someone).

If his car can stay on the road using Nitrons and R888, then mine will (driver skill not withstanding of course).

RG are looking at / working with AST, and I believe the centre setting is identical to the standard Sag settings. They were told about AST by a famous racing driver. Some say he works not far away from RG, and is a lot faster than the old one...

RedSpike66

2,194 posts

98 months

[news] 
Saturday 4th August 2012 quote quote all
We are all entiteld to try different things... and it's great that we have these options...

Until I can drive to a degree that I feel the suspension is 'affecting' me, then I'll leave it alone. Obviously, Graham uses his car on the track a lot, and is therefore searching for a setting that he likes and suits him, and in no way was I saying Nitrons are not worth the investment. By all accounts, they more than often are.
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DonkeyApple

17,287 posts

55 months

[news] 
Saturday 4th August 2012 quote quote all
Ive always used Ohlins on my three Tivs and found they really remove twitchiness from the car. I'm no specialist behind the wheel but you get the difference noticeably.

I think the set I currently have are adjustable as well but I've never checked as I'll never adjust them. My logic is that what I learn on the road I want to have on the track and vice versa, I don't want to learn two different characteristics.

TVR_owner

3,349 posts

77 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
There is nothing at all wrong with the standard Sagaris suspension components in good condition for road and trackday use. While a Griff or a Chim will benefit massively from a Nitron upgrade, a Sagaris sadly? will not.


Get some new ones and polish them before you fit them biggrin.

Don1

Original Poster:

10,865 posts

94 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
I completely agree that the standard suspension is properly fit for purpose in a standard car.
But I'm starting to really feel the difference - where the suspension was one of the best parts of the car, it is now not the case.

TVR_owner

3,349 posts

77 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Don1 said:
I completely agree that the standard suspension is properly fit for purpose in a standard car.
But I'm starting to really feel the difference - where the suspension was one of the best parts of the car, it is now not the case.
I find it very hard to believe that a power increase in the % we are discussing here would cause that to be the case, but if it is, then I supsect you are on a long and difficult journey to get your car back to being the complete package it once was. Good luck smile


Don1

Original Poster:

10,865 posts

94 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
To be fair it could be me needing to re-learn the car - especially as I'm arriving at corners far faster than I normally would have!

But then again, I am one of very few people who say that the 19" Jade wheel gives a much better feeling over the spiders, so it could be horses for courses and let's see what happens! smile

TVR_owner

3,349 posts

77 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Enjoy the learning Don, I'm sure youll have fun. smile

RedSpike66

2,194 posts

98 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
You been on track in it yet Don ??
Have you got any planned ?? Happy to try to accompany you so we can compare.... hehe

Don1

Original Poster:

10,865 posts

94 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Before the remap, yes, was doing charity rides for The Supercar event. Quick would cover it. It did highlight the tyres/suspension need though.

(Mind you the tyres are 4 years and 5 trackdays old... and still legal!)

BCA

8,605 posts

143 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Very impressive, what kind of ballpark figure are we talking here price wise? eek

18's are awful, but still surprised the 19's are better, you're losing alot of compliance through the sidewalls surely? I wouldn't be surprised if they're lighter than the 18s though... I'm not a big fan of the 18" spiders as a wheel, a shame they look soooooo good! smile

BCA

8,605 posts

143 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
spitfire4v8 said:
3 way dampers means the possibility of 3 times the opportunity to get it wrong at each end. If you don't know how 3 ways work, buy one way dampers. Graham has been badly advised, or given insufficient tuition on how to set them up. It's not the fault of the dampers.
One for Graham too... We found them to be marginally better than the original harvey bailey dampers on our T350 - and somehow massively uncomfortable. We then set them up as guided by Tailslide - who's done extensive set up work with them and they were much better... We've played since as our two cars set up differs quite a bit in terms of wheels and tyres - even more so recently... and they're better still IMHO. On our current wheel and tyres set up, they're remarkably compliant, yet the body control is fantastic. We've got a few different set ups saved that we like to use; Road comfort, sprint/hillclimb B road, Paul B road, track and drag. We rarely feel the need to go back to road comfort now, such is the quality of the damping.

Basically, stick with it Graham, its a long and fun learning curve! smile

One other key thing to watch is that they're all set the same... sounds daft, but the amount of times I personally (and I am a bit particular with this stuff) have put set a corner slightly differently by accident - it makes a big difference IME.

Enjoy!

Don1

Original Poster:

10,865 posts

94 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Everything including VAT was around the £15k area. Of that, the head was about a third of it.

Actually the 19" are heavier and more solid, and I think that is the key to it. They don't flex so much, thus allowing the rubber and suspension to do its thing.

But then again, I certainly have no idea for sure, it's not my field of expertise, and I know a lot of people on here poo-poo the idea that the 19s are better than the spiders. Although I'm not the only person on here running these wheels that says it...

RedSpike66

2,194 posts

98 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Mine had TVR Power 19's on it when I bought it, and standard suspension, with Kuhmo Ecsta tyres, and all in all I think that is a very good set up - not had any casue to complain with last summers Track Days or spirited driving.

I've now put Hankook's on and they certainly look the business, have really good reviews, an although took a bit of scrubbing in, they were great at Cadwell last week.

Don I would suggest newer tyres would be the first change fofr you - 5 year old rubber probably not at it's best. biggrin


BCA

8,605 posts

143 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Don1 said:
Everything including VAT was around the £15k area. Of that, the head was about a third of it.

Actually the 19" are heavier and more solid, and I think that is the key to it. They don't flex so much, thus allowing the rubber and suspension to do its thing.

But then again, I certainly have no idea for sure, it's not my field of expertise, and I know a lot of people on here poo-poo the idea that the 19s are better than the spiders. Although I'm not the only person on here running these wheels that says it...
19"s shouldn't be better than 18" spiders, its just that the latter are so bad that they are. The flex, the weight, the strange tyre sizing (in other T cars atleast) - it all works against it. We've got a solution that most wouldn't entertain, but we're more than happy with it. If you've found the same in another wheel, stick with it and work on the other bits first. Once you're happy a big improvement has been made, try a set of lighter (non 18" spider)wheels... you'll be surprised.

As I said before though, LOVE the look of the 18" spiders, just wish they were lighter/ stronger/ better made/ better specced in terms of offset+sizing. They do look right though, really stunning wheels. smile

Don1

Original Poster:

10,865 posts

94 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
I'd much prefer a set of trackday tyres - R888 or the like. The only problem is not many come in 19" format.

Hollowpockets

5,621 posts

102 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Surely the larger rotational and unsprung forces at play with the heavier 19" wheel are quite a disadvantage over the the 18"??


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