S6 4.3 v 4.5

Author
Discussion

Zippee

13,438 posts

233 months

Monday 20th August 2012
quotequote all
GTrr said:
spitfire4v8 said:
its flywheel. racing green are defo winning the bhp race at the moment.
surely a 4.5 is 395 bhp at the wheels, about 450 at the fly
That's what I'd have thought as well. Most power charts I've seen for the 4.3 are at the wheels showing 370-380.

DonkeyApple

54,919 posts

168 months

Monday 20th August 2012
quotequote all
Zippee said:
GTrr said:
spitfire4v8 said:
its flywheel. racing green are defo winning the bhp race at the moment.
surely a 4.5 is 395 bhp at the wheels, about 450 at the fly
That's what I'd have thought as well. Most power charts I've seen for the 4.3 are at the wheels showing 370-380.
The Power 'at the wheels' numbers are inline with the SRR 'at the fly' numbers.

God knows why but the two RR are consistant but clearly work in different ways.

Don1

15,936 posts

207 months

Monday 20th August 2012
quotequote all
Indeed - this thread shows it - the maps on Getsis car was one day apart.

Zippee

13,438 posts

233 months

Monday 20th August 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Zippee said:
GTrr said:
spitfire4v8 said:
its flywheel. racing green are defo winning the bhp race at the moment.
surely a 4.5 is 395 bhp at the wheels, about 450 at the fly
That's what I'd have thought as well. Most power charts I've seen for the 4.3 are at the wheels showing 370-380.
The Power 'at the wheels' numbers are inline with the SRR 'at the fly' numbers.

God knows why but the two RR are consistant but clearly work in different ways.
Thanks - confusing though as which one is correct?

DonkeyApple

54,919 posts

168 months

Monday 20th August 2012
quotequote all
Zippee said:
DonkeyApple said:
Zippee said:
GTrr said:
spitfire4v8 said:
its flywheel. racing green are defo winning the bhp race at the moment.
surely a 4.5 is 395 bhp at the wheels, about 450 at the fly
That's what I'd have thought as well. Most power charts I've seen for the 4.3 are at the wheels showing 370-380.
The Power 'at the wheels' numbers are inline with the SRR 'at the fly' numbers.

God knows why but the two RR are consistant but clearly work in different ways.
Thanks - confusing though as which one is correct?
I've no idea biggrin. Maybe neither in reality but the difference between the two has always confused but at least we now know which sets of data to compare to obtain comparable readings.

My personal opinion is that the lower number is the more realistic one, it just seems more logical to me.

spitfire4v8

3,990 posts

180 months

Monday 20th August 2012
quotequote all
it's well known in the industry that the dynojet dynos overread by about 15% (there's loads if you google dynojet v dyno dynamics) so whatever numbers you get from dynojets you need to reduce the number accordingly.

Tvr Power

1,076 posts

205 months

Monday 20th August 2012
quotequote all
spitfire4v8 said:
it's well known in the industry that the dynojet dynos overread by about 15% (there's loads if you google dynojet v dyno dynamics) so whatever numbers you get from dynojets you need to reduce the number accordingly.
Get a life Get a Dyno Jet rofl

Dom

Brummmie

5,284 posts

220 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
Well,

Here you have the two, TVR Power is 532/504bhp/lbs AT THE WHEELS, The DD is 581/596bhp/Lbs.
You just have to use the same dyno to see if you have improved, mines done a 10second qtr and 202mph, actual performance figures will tell you who has built the strongest motor?

Dyno Dynamics



Dyno Jet


JonRB

74,391 posts

271 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
Brummmie said:
actual performance figures will tell you who has built the strongest motor?
Who cares apart from willy waving in the pub?

I'm more attracted to the improved reliability of a head that doesn't have finger-followers and that has extra oil and coolant pathways. Something that has been engineered to address the flaws in the engine rather than just making bigger numbers on a dyno.

natben

2,743 posts

230 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
I tend to agree, When I had to get my SP6 rebuilt reliability was my number one concern, I believe I have that now with my TVR Power build. However it is comforting for those who have spent money upgrading the performance to see that there car is making more BHP / Torque if that is what they desired from there build along with the reliability of course.


JonRB

74,391 posts

271 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
natben said:
However it is comforting for those who have spent money upgrading the performance to see that there car is making more BHP / Torque if that is what they desired from there build along with the reliability of course.
Fair point. yes

Hollowpockets

5,908 posts

215 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
when my T350 died it already had valve guide wear but the liner on number 6 cylinder slipped and caused the breakdown, so its as much built quality as parts failures as far is I've been concerned. The tvr power re-build was solid though after and as far as I know 5 years later and it's only needed a water pump changed.

G

Brummmie

5,284 posts

220 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
JonRB said:
Who cares apart from willy waving in the pub?

I'm more attracted to the improved reliability of a head that doesn't have finger-followers and that has extra oil and coolant pathways. Something that has been engineered to address the flaws in the engine rather than just making bigger numbers on a dyno.
No not willy waving at the pub, but the track.
I am simply saying to the Dyno racers, do some actual performance figures to see which build performs best, not whose bit of paper has the highest point.

JonRB

74,391 posts

271 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
Brummmie said:
I am simply saying to the Dyno racers, do some actual performance figures to see which build performs best, not whose bit of paper has the highest point.
Ah right, understood. Sorry.

spitfire4v8

3,990 posts

180 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
what amazes me is that when you go back to the drag race table Cyclone's 11.9 quarter is still the best non assisted AJP cerbie on there (or was last time i looked). Has nothing moved on in AJP circles since then? There's some high hp cars out there but none has gone faster than 11.9 yet with a non assisted ajp8. At this rate the SP6 boys will be whipping the AJP boys!
I wish Mike Saunders would take his lightweight 4.7 down the strip to see just how fast that would go!! The AJP boys need a bit of a lift.
Even me with my AJP bias is hoping to break 390hp with my latest mods on the tiny 3.6 Sp6. And I never thought I'd be excited about SP6 tuning, but it's addictive when those numbers keep going up.
Whatever your engine of choice is, times are good though smile

JonRB

74,391 posts

271 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
spitfire4v8 said:
Whatever your engine of choice is, times are good though smile
yes We've never had it so good. At least 3 companies actively developing the engine, evolving it, and moving it forward. And in very different ways too.

DonkeyApple

54,919 posts

168 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
natben said:
I tend to agree, When I had to get my SP6 rebuilt reliability was my number one concern, I believe I have that now with my TVR Power build. However it is comforting for those who have spent money upgrading the performance to see that there car is making more BHP / Torque if that is what they desired from there build along with the reliability of course.
That's for sure. Paying £20k+ for an engine which detonates almost instantly was a darker period than the crappy factory rebuilds.

The most important thing is the competitive choice and the reliability otherwise there would be no S6 Tivs in a few years time.

DonkeyApple

54,919 posts

168 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
spitfire4v8 said:
what amazes me is that when you go back to the drag race table Cyclone's 11.9 quarter is still the best non assisted AJP cerbie on there (or was last time i looked). Has nothing moved on in AJP circles since then? There's some high hp cars out there but none has gone faster than 11.9 yet with a non assisted ajp8. At this rate the SP6 boys will be whipping the AJP boys!
I wish Mike Saunders would take his lightweight 4.7 down the strip to see just how fast that would go!! The AJP boys need a bit of a lift.
Even me with my AJP bias is hoping to break 390hp with my latest mods on the tiny 3.6 Sp6. And I never thought I'd be excited about SP6 tuning, but it's addictive when those numbers keep going up.
Whatever your engine of choice is, times are good though smile
I guess the real problem the AJP has is that there just aren't enough units out there to enable a developer to amortise the investment quickly enough?

JonRB

74,391 posts

271 months

Tuesday 28th August 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
I guess the real problem the AJP has is that there just aren't enough units out there to enable a developer to amortise the investment quickly enough?
Good point. The S6 has been used in the Cerb, Tamora, Tuscan, T350, Sagaris, and exotics & prototypes. As you say, a lot of units out there.