Engine re-build...bit by bit. Possible?

[chris watton]

m4tti said:

chris watton said:

IIRC, didn't Don1 have a lot of other work done on the engine, over and above the FFF head - inlet/outlet mods etc.?

If yes, then if someone threw the same amount of money over and above a 4.3, wouldn't the results be similar?

The 410 for the 4.3 refereed to above is with the ACT exhaust system. I believe that was Mr chips car . Dons was a FFF head with a ACT exhaust and carbon airbox. So no the results wouldn't be similar.

is there a 4.3 running standard exhaust, catted and with standard air box, to compare to the RG demo car which does 420....

I will let you know when I have mine done - I will have new (Tuscan S) cats but the standard airbox and exhaust.

Anything close to 400 and I'll be happy - I am one of the few that actually thinks the 1060kg Tam is not underpowered in standard guise anyway...

[m4tti]

chris watton said:

I will let you know when I have mine done - I will have new (Tuscan S) cats but the standard airbox and exhaust.

Anything close to 400 and I'll be happy - I am one of the few that actually thinks the 1060kg Tam is not underpowered in standard guise anyway...

Which is a good point in itself. Would a 39x horsepower car running syvecs or MBE with traction control out perform the more powerful car in the real world situation. A lot of recent cars produce quick times, with less power and more weight due to the power delivery and the fast gear change.

Edited by m4tti on Tuesday 2nd December 10:00

[chris watton]

m4tti said:

Which is a good point in itself. Would a 39x horsepower car running syvecs or MBE with traction control out perform the more powerful car in the real world situation. A lot of recent cars produce quick times, with less power and more weight due to the power delivery and the fast gear change.

Edited by m4tti on Tuesday 2nd December 10:00

But here's the thing, I am not interested in racing other cars, I enjoy my car most when there's no-one behind or in front me on the twisties. I am just interested in how the car feels to me.

Perhaps I will invest in the MBE at some point, but for now, I'll have to rely on my right foot and Quaife diff..

Also, I know that there are a lot of very capable cars out there, I am under no illusions about that - but I am yet to find one that make me 'feel' the way I do when driving one of our cars..

[TA14]

spitfire4v8 said:

RND 4.1 full monty 354hp

That's odd since Clive got more from a 4.0 with RND cam:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[m4tti]

TA14 said:

That's odd since Clive got more from a 4.0 with RND cam:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

But not forgetting the work Clive posted back on his own custom airbox and exhaust...

[TA14]

m4tti said:

TA14 said:

That's odd since Clive got more from a 4.0 with RND cam:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

But not forgetting the work Clive posted back on his own custom airbox and exhaust...

I'm not forgetting that at all, I just don't think that a new air box and exhaust would add 70bhp. Do you?

[chris watton]

So, what some are saying is, for an extra £3k+, they can have an extra 10-20bhp over Power's 4.3?

[m4tti]

TA14 said:

I'm not forgetting that at all, I just don't think that a new air box and exhaust would add 70bhp. Do you?

huh..

Your maths is a bit squiffy going on the above post which catalogs a standard "S" spec output, but if I remember rightly from Clives thread, theres the higher flowing injectors from the states, the adjustment of cam-timing, which would be facilitated by the re-map during the dyno work. High lift cams really could have come from any of the suppliers.

[TA14]

m4tti said:

TA14 said:

I'm not forgetting that at all, I just don't think that a new air box and exhaust would add 70bhp. Do you?

huh..

Your maths is a bit squiffy going on the above post which catalogs a standard "S" spec output, but if I remember rightly from Clives thread, theres the higher flowing injectors from the states, the adjustment of cam-timing, which would be facilitated by the re-map during the dyno work. High lift cams really could have come from any of the suppliers.

417bhp-354bhp= what? add on a touch for the increase in cc and what are you left with? 70bhp?? Clive could have bought his cams from anywhere but he has stated a few times that he bought them from RND. The 354 bhp RND is a "full monty" version.

[m4tti]

But we're talking about a standard S engine that was modified.. it wouldnt have been a detuned 354 bhp RND special to start with..



Std factory 4.0 Tuscan S 373hp

Edited by m4tti on Tuesday 2nd December 11:15

[spitfire4v8]

clive's engine was 355hp or thereabouts to start with.
modified items are : airbox, exhaust + decats, cams / timing, remap, injectors, throttle bodies

[m4tti]

Thanks for clarifying.. so presumably that was the best "S" spec engine you'd seen not the average.

[TA14]

Not trying to knock any of the three camps or DIYers, I would have thought that reasonable bhp expectations for rebuilds done well (call them that archaic smelly blueprinting if you like) is as follows:
4.0 S 360 - 380
tuned 4.0 400 - 420
tuned 4.1 405 - 425
tuned 4.3 410 - 435
tuned 4.5 395 - 420

FFF 4.0 400 - 435

with the larger engines making the power at lower revs

[chris watton]

TA14 said:

Not trying to knock any of the three camps or DIYers, I would have thought that reasonable bhp expectations for rebuilds done well (call them that archaic smelly blueprinting if you like) is as follows:
4.0 S 360 - 380
tuned 4.0 400 - 420
tuned 4.1 405 - 425
tuned 4.3 410 - 435
tuned 4.5 395 - 420

FFF 4.0 400 - 435

with the larger engines making the power at lower revs

..And more torque, presumably?

[TA14]

chris watton said:

TA14 said:

Not trying to knock any of the three camps or DIYers, I would have thought that reasonable bhp expectations for rebuilds done well (call them that archaic smelly blueprinting if you like) is as follows:
4.0 S 360 - 380
tuned 4.0 400 - 420
tuned 4.1 405 - 425
tuned 4.3 410 - 435
tuned 4.5 395 - 420

FFF 4.0 400 - 435

with the larger engines making the power at lower revs

..And more torque, presumably?

Yes, the general trend for the FF engines seems to be a small increase in peak torque and a large increase in mid range torque. The FFF engines appear to have a modest mid-range torque increase and significant peak torque figures at very high revs (surprising and quite commendable)

[m4tti]

Are these your guesstamations?

[TA14]

m4tti said:

Are these your guesstamations?

Yes and I accept that due to the lack of numbers of cars with published data and the difficulty of comparing results there's a lot of room for error but that's what appears to be a logical ratio of the numbers rather than trying to push or knock one camp.

[m4tti]

Cool. Which type of speed six car are you working on or developing at the moment?

[Walford]

Do you need to upgrade the clutch, when you go over 400hp

[donutsina911]

Just to update the thread, I've booked the Tuscan in to Powers for a standard rebuild in mid January.

I've decided to go down this route for a number of reasons - cost per bhp being one (I can't justify the extra £4k + it would take to ramp things up significantly) and the helpfulness of Dom on the phone and email dealing with a TVR newbie being the other main reason.

Whilst I'm expecting the bill to be more than the 'list' price, hopefully going down this route will also allow me to get a Dave the Trimmer interior makeover shortly after and get the suspension overhauled too V excited...