Taking manifolds off - does the engine need to come out?
Discussion
Having just wrapped a pair of manifolds I'd say it would be impossible to wrap them in situ. My advice would be to get hold of a 2nd pair to wrap and then get them swapped when convenient.
Btw: I can't imagine fitting them with the engine in would be easy, I'm guessing that both engine mounts and airbox will need removing and the engine moving as far to the offside as possible, then the fun begins trying to access the nuts and bolts!
Btw: I can't imagine fitting them with the engine in would be easy, I'm guessing that both engine mounts and airbox will need removing and the engine moving as far to the offside as possible, then the fun begins trying to access the nuts and bolts!
duff-man said:
Having just wrapped a pair of manifolds I'd say it would be impossible to wrap them in situ. My advice would be to get hold of a 2nd pair to wrap and then get them swapped when convenient.
Btw: I can't imagine fitting them with the engine in would be easy, I'm guessing that both engine mounts and airbox will need removing and the engine moving as far to the offside as possible, then the fun begins trying to access the nuts and bolts!
Cheers - I should have wrote - with the exception of manifolds, tagged on the end. I am now thinking of cabin heat soak when I take it to Italy, and it may be of benefit if the cats are wrapped too, but I cannot get to the upper cat without taking the exhaust off...Btw: I can't imagine fitting them with the engine in would be easy, I'm guessing that both engine mounts and airbox will need removing and the engine moving as far to the offside as possible, then the fun begins trying to access the nuts and bolts!
Manifolds will have to wait until next year, I think. Already spent too much on the car for one year..
Chris, I wouldn't bother wraping the manifolds or the CATs. Fine over stainless items but mild steel may just rot away underneath. Just get them ceramic coated.
I swapped out the CATs on Tamy at the weekend (and refitted the ACT backbox) and spent a few minutes checking the access for the manifolds. I think they are removeable without dropping the engine. Faffy and ideally a lift and trans jack are needed (the engine mount needs to come off I think).
When are you off to Italy?
Next time you're under the bonnet - or go and specifically check - can you count the number of wires that go to the lambda / oxygen sensors and post up. Take and post a picture too.
As you know, I have managed to acquire a few spare bits over the last few months I have a set of coated manifolds sitting here waiting to be fitted. Plus two sets of CATs waiting and another pair of manifolds waiting to go off for coating shortly. If we can arrange a venue I'm happy to lend a set of manifolds and CATs plus assist you in fitting them.
Send me a mail if you're interested.
I swapped out the CATs on Tamy at the weekend (and refitted the ACT backbox) and spent a few minutes checking the access for the manifolds. I think they are removeable without dropping the engine. Faffy and ideally a lift and trans jack are needed (the engine mount needs to come off I think).
When are you off to Italy?
Next time you're under the bonnet - or go and specifically check - can you count the number of wires that go to the lambda / oxygen sensors and post up. Take and post a picture too.
As you know, I have managed to acquire a few spare bits over the last few months I have a set of coated manifolds sitting here waiting to be fitted. Plus two sets of CATs waiting and another pair of manifolds waiting to go off for coating shortly. If we can arrange a venue I'm happy to lend a set of manifolds and CATs plus assist you in fitting them.
Send me a mail if you're interested.
mk1fan said:
Chris, I wouldn't bother wraping the manifolds or the CATs. Fine over stainless items but mild steel may just rot away underneath. Just get them ceramic coated.
I swapped out the CATs on Tamy at the weekend (and refitted the ACT backbox) and spent a few minutes checking the access for the manifolds. I think they are removeable without dropping the engine. Faffy and ideally a lift and trans jack are needed (the engine mount needs to come off I think).
When are you off to Italy?
Next time you're under the bonnet - or go and specifically check - can you count the number of wires that go to the lambda / oxygen sensors and post up. Take and post a picture too.
As you know, I have managed to acquire a few spare bits over the last few months I have a set of coated manifolds sitting here waiting to be fitted. Plus two sets of CATs waiting and another pair of manifolds waiting to go off for coating shortly. If we can arrange a venue I'm happy to lend a set of manifolds and CATs plus assist you in fitting them.
Send me a mail if you're interested.
Cheers Stewart. I have had a look at the sensors, but all I can see is where they're attached to the manifolds, can't see the wires (or where they lead to) due the manifolds being in the way.I swapped out the CATs on Tamy at the weekend (and refitted the ACT backbox) and spent a few minutes checking the access for the manifolds. I think they are removeable without dropping the engine. Faffy and ideally a lift and trans jack are needed (the engine mount needs to come off I think).
When are you off to Italy?
Next time you're under the bonnet - or go and specifically check - can you count the number of wires that go to the lambda / oxygen sensors and post up. Take and post a picture too.
As you know, I have managed to acquire a few spare bits over the last few months I have a set of coated manifolds sitting here waiting to be fitted. Plus two sets of CATs waiting and another pair of manifolds waiting to go off for coating shortly. If we can arrange a venue I'm happy to lend a set of manifolds and CATs plus assist you in fitting them.
Send me a mail if you're interested.
I did plan to wrap the cats and then spray on heat resistant protective resin, to prevent water ingress. Although that's pretty moot anyway, as the car is strictly for dry weather, and the protection against water is for the odd occasion I am caught unawares. I also thought that if wrapped, it may stop the cats resonating when hot, if they are touching something else once they expand (plus, they get so hot, wouldn't the water evaporate immediately anyway)? I have got rid of the worst of the resonance, but there is still some there at certain revs.
I did think about buying a new set of manifolds and having them ceramic coated if the manifolds could be changed easily - but that's another £1k, and it will cost at least that again in labour just to have them swapped, although the cats are a different matter, and never thought initially about wrapping/ceramic coating those....
Wrapping the CATs is going to increase their size so if they are rubbing when hot then this is just going to make it worse.
Happy to do an exchange if you're happy to pay for the ceramic coating. Just need a venue to do the work. If it's 1k in labour that would easily cover the cost of a garage for the day and your time plus travel.
The rubber shroud over the wiring to the lambdas doesn't extend that far. Just need to know if they are 4-wire or 3-wire and whether they are M18 or M14 in size.
Happy to do an exchange if you're happy to pay for the ceramic coating. Just need a venue to do the work. If it's 1k in labour that would easily cover the cost of a garage for the day and your time plus travel.
The rubber shroud over the wiring to the lambdas doesn't extend that far. Just need to know if they are 4-wire or 3-wire and whether they are M18 or M14 in size.
mk1fan said:
Wrapping the CATs is going to increase their size so if they are rubbing when hot then this is just going to make it worse.
Happy to do an exchange if you're happy to pay for the ceramic coating. Just need a venue to do the work. If it's 1k in labour that would easily cover the cost of a garage for the day and your time plus travel.
The rubber shroud over the wiring to the lambdas doesn't extend that far. Just need to know if they are 4-wire or 3-wire and whether they are M18 or M14 in size.
I know, but I figured it would help reduce heat, and I assume less likely to vibrate if any part is touching the chassis? I am worried about heat stroke when sitting in the car when stuck in a traffic jam in Turin city centre Happy to do an exchange if you're happy to pay for the ceramic coating. Just need a venue to do the work. If it's 1k in labour that would easily cover the cost of a garage for the day and your time plus travel.
The rubber shroud over the wiring to the lambdas doesn't extend that far. Just need to know if they are 4-wire or 3-wire and whether they are M18 or M14 in size.
The cats I have are brand new, and are the larger exhaust bore size (Tuscan S and Sagaris), they were fitted the same time I had the new complete ACT big bore exhaust fitted last month - the larger diameter caused the problem with parts of the pipes hitting parts of the chassis, I think.
I just had another look at the lambdas, and for the life of me, I can't get at them (and I have small hands!), not without removing the forward under floor plate anyway. I will remove the plate this weekend (if it's raining, so that's a cert), and see if I can get a better look from underneath - it looks pretty clear once the plate's removed by the looks of it.
I will PM you once I have had a look.
Cheers Stewart
If you're talking about the bolted on plate then you should be able to see through it at the lambdas.
If you're thoughts are to have a secondary benefit of the wrap acting as an absorbing layer where the CAT is touching then I think you'll find it'll just wear away the finish of whatever it is rubbing against - unless its the stainless plate in which case the wrap will just wear away.
If you have a set of ramps and can get the plate off then removing the CATs is a 2-minute job. Send them off to Performance 1 and get them coated. It'll reduce heat soak and take up no more space than they curently do. Don't worry about the manifolds. It's going to be hot in Turin anyway it's not going to make any more of an issue with the roof off.
If you're thoughts are to have a secondary benefit of the wrap acting as an absorbing layer where the CAT is touching then I think you'll find it'll just wear away the finish of whatever it is rubbing against - unless its the stainless plate in which case the wrap will just wear away.
If you have a set of ramps and can get the plate off then removing the CATs is a 2-minute job. Send them off to Performance 1 and get them coated. It'll reduce heat soak and take up no more space than they curently do. Don't worry about the manifolds. It's going to be hot in Turin anyway it's not going to make any more of an issue with the roof off.
mk1fan said:
If you're talking about the bolted on plate then you should be able to see through it at the lambdas.
If you're thoughts are to have a secondary benefit of the wrap acting as an absorbing layer where the CAT is touching then I think you'll find it'll just wear away the finish of whatever it is rubbing against - unless its the stainless plate in which case the wrap will just wear away.
If you have a set of ramps and can get the plate off then removing the CATs is a 2-minute job. Send them off to Performance 1 and get them coated. It'll reduce heat soak and take up no more space than they curently do. Don't worry about the manifolds. It's going to be hot in Turin anyway it's not going to make any more of an issue with the roof off.
Cheers again Stewart.If you're thoughts are to have a secondary benefit of the wrap acting as an absorbing layer where the CAT is touching then I think you'll find it'll just wear away the finish of whatever it is rubbing against - unless its the stainless plate in which case the wrap will just wear away.
If you have a set of ramps and can get the plate off then removing the CATs is a 2-minute job. Send them off to Performance 1 and get them coated. It'll reduce heat soak and take up no more space than they curently do. Don't worry about the manifolds. It's going to be hot in Turin anyway it's not going to make any more of an issue with the roof off.
I thought I had to drop the exhaust part way to remove the cats? I had another quick look, and I don't think the cats are hitting anything, as they're the same size as the ones they replaced. It seems the larger diameter exhaust was the problem.
If I had known then what I know now, I doubt I would have bought those cats and big bore exhaust system, I bet there's zero performance benefit, too.
I may see if I can get at the cats over the weekend, and see if I can remove them.
Is worth dropping the rear box off the two rear mounts that way the pipes can slide backwards enough to clear the CATs. Just don't forget to make sure the middle rear mount (just above the diff) goes in as you move it back forward.
You may want to check where the exhaust clamp bolts are facing too. Make sure they don't hit anything.
Worth investing in a tube of exhaust paste too - for reassembly. I know it's a hard thing to do (taking the car off the road again) but getting the CATs coated now would give a real benefit to the Italy trip.
It might be the exhaust pipes are catching the rear under plate. You could space this out by putting washers between the chassis and the tray. If it's only a slight noise it may just be catching the tray. Plus a cheap fix at £1.50ish for some stainless steel wahers - maybe £2.50.
You may want to check where the exhaust clamp bolts are facing too. Make sure they don't hit anything.
Worth investing in a tube of exhaust paste too - for reassembly. I know it's a hard thing to do (taking the car off the road again) but getting the CATs coated now would give a real benefit to the Italy trip.
It might be the exhaust pipes are catching the rear under plate. You could space this out by putting washers between the chassis and the tray. If it's only a slight noise it may just be catching the tray. Plus a cheap fix at £1.50ish for some stainless steel wahers - maybe £2.50.
Cheers - I'll have a go over the weekend, if I get time.
I wrapped most of the exhaust in situ - never want to do that again, though! I also added more SS washers to the centre under tray, plus stuck on more heat shield on the top surface:
ETA - Would this work for the manifolds?
http://www.nimbusmotorsport.com/ProdShop2.asp?id=6...
I wrapped most of the exhaust in situ - never want to do that again, though! I also added more SS washers to the centre under tray, plus stuck on more heat shield on the top surface:
ETA - Would this work for the manifolds?
http://www.nimbusmotorsport.com/ProdShop2.asp?id=6...
Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 24th June 17:25
I think your only option with the manifolds is to remove them and have them ceramic coated, wrapping only serves to contain the heat within the pipe, you still need incoming air to them to help them cool.
as an extreme example a Ferrari 355 has each bank of manifolds clad in a metal chamber, the headers actually melt within the chamber as the temperatures inside get so high, aftermarket manifolds do away with this chamber and last a lot longer because of this.
as an extreme example a Ferrari 355 has each bank of manifolds clad in a metal chamber, the headers actually melt within the chamber as the temperatures inside get so high, aftermarket manifolds do away with this chamber and last a lot longer because of this.
Chris,
Get the CATs out and sent off for coating. Performance 1 offer better value than Zircotec. That's going to be a big improvement for not a lot of work.
As for the manifolds, you're welcome to borrow one of my spare sets if you're so determined. They just need the smaller thread size lambda sensors. Just seems a lot of effort at the moment.
Get the CATs out and sent off for coating. Performance 1 offer better value than Zircotec. That's going to be a big improvement for not a lot of work.
As for the manifolds, you're welcome to borrow one of my spare sets if you're so determined. They just need the smaller thread size lambda sensors. Just seems a lot of effort at the moment.
Chris,
Get the CATs out and sent off for coating. Performance 1 offer better value than Zircotec. That's going to be a big improvement for not a lot of work.
As for the manifolds, you're welcome to borrow one of my spare sets if you're so determined. They just need the smaller thread size lambda sensors. Just seems a lot of effort at the moment.
Get the CATs out and sent off for coating. Performance 1 offer better value than Zircotec. That's going to be a big improvement for not a lot of work.
As for the manifolds, you're welcome to borrow one of my spare sets if you're so determined. They just need the smaller thread size lambda sensors. Just seems a lot of effort at the moment.
mk1fan said:
Chris,
Get the CATs out and sent off for coating. Performance 1 offer better value than Zircotec. That's going to be a big improvement for not a lot of work.
As for the manifolds, you're welcome to borrow one of my spare sets if you're so determined. They just need the smaller thread size lambda sensors. Just seems a lot of effort at the moment.
Yeah, I think I'll have to - but may need to buy something to replace them while the cats are away. Decats would be a good choice, but I just cannot stand the noise.Get the CATs out and sent off for coating. Performance 1 offer better value than Zircotec. That's going to be a big improvement for not a lot of work.
As for the manifolds, you're welcome to borrow one of my spare sets if you're so determined. They just need the smaller thread size lambda sensors. Just seems a lot of effort at the moment.
I have to resign myself to the fact that the manifolds cannot come off unless the engine's dropped, so that will be something for next year perhaps. In the meantime, I can change the heat shield next to them, so they're not touching each other..
Manifolds do come off with engine in. You will need to get at from above and below as well as release the NS engine mount. I've done it on the Sag, there is more room on the Tuscan. Lambdas you can get from the NS wheel arch and top but if they fight then underside access helps.
You will need to cut a 6mm allen key down for one and get some decent long hex bits. Not an easy job.
Looks like the OPs engine is leaning over, check engine mounts, esp. NS as this gets a pasting from the heat.
J
You will need to cut a 6mm allen key down for one and get some decent long hex bits. Not an easy job.
Looks like the OPs engine is leaning over, check engine mounts, esp. NS as this gets a pasting from the heat.
J
Sagi Badger said:
Manifolds do come off with engine in. You will need to get at from above and below as well as release the NS engine mount. I've done it on the Sag, there is more room on the Tuscan. Lambdas you can get from the NS wheel arch and top but if they fight then underside access helps.
You will need to cut a 6mm allen key down for one and get some decent long hex bits. Not an easy job.
Looks like the OPs engine is leaning over, check engine mounts, esp. NS as this gets a pasting from the heat.
J
I don't think it is, I think it's just a case of the heat shield coming out too far. I had mounts sorted when I had the 4.3 only a few months back.You will need to cut a 6mm allen key down for one and get some decent long hex bits. Not an easy job.
Looks like the OPs engine is leaning over, check engine mounts, esp. NS as this gets a pasting from the heat.
J
I wish I could have afforded to have the manifolds ceramic coated then, plus I should have asked for new heat shield to be installed, but at the time, I could barely afford the 4.3 (including rad, hoses, clutch etc.)
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