Rebuild Time....

Rebuild Time....

Author
Discussion

m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Friday 20th January 2017
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Paul has your new head been delivered yet?

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
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Yeah all wrapped up in the garage. Have had it open to have a sneak peek though! Awesome piece of kit!

m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
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Seems a shame to get it dirty when you first see it biggrin

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
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Absolutely! I'll unbox it this week for a sneak peek, although it will going on soon enough!

I've done a few more small jobs this morning.

The half time shaft has been fitted, this is the simplex chain kit version with the twin oil-fed roller bearings. The shaft itself has been reshaped to take the new roller bearings and drilled for the oil feed then just slides into an aperture on the block. Then liberally lube both roller bearings, slide them inside the sprocket and that's it. This new arrangement is held in position with the use of a large washer and shim so when the timing cover is fitted it holds the roller bearings in position.



This new sprocket arrangement is oil fed from a new fitting on the oil gallery.





I'll have the new half time oil feed fitted this week, and then a refresh of the water pump bearings before install.

I also fitted the new rotors to the oil pump shafts, again liberally lubed up, fitted and torqued up.






Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 23:09

m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
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Cheeky tip that you may want to incorporate on the oil feed banjo bolt, given to me by top tvr man Steve Woodrow of tvr101, is to drill some small diameter holes into the bolt head and wire it in place so it can never unwind



Steve has probably forgotten more than some places knew in the first place biggrin

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
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I see, might do that.

I actually need to file down the pipe and open up the banjo to fit the pipe as its slightly oversized. More so than I'd have liked.

Thanks for that.

Edited by Willfin on Saturday 21st January 14:03

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
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Great idea.
But give the wire locking a check, its actual anti-locking at the moment.

m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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Neil400 said:
Great idea.
But give the wire locking a check, its actual anti-locking at the moment.
It's a banjo not a locking nut, and is fixed in its lateral or rotational position by a rigid copper pipe inserted into the halft time shaft. The banjo bolt is the only part of that unit that can rotate.

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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I've done a couple of little items this morning to keep things ticking over.

Sump plug install. There are actually two. One in the face of the sump, which is magnetic, then a large Allen key at the end which is a little lower down that I guess would drain more oil. Both now locked into place.





I've decided to use a head stud kit for my build instead of normal bolts. For the small extra cost I thought it worthwhile as all the big-power builds I've followed over the years have upgraded to studs. The main benefit appears to be torque efficiency and how the load is transferred through the fastener. There are loads of articles, one of which is here:

http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/head-st...

Anyhow, here are the head studs installed, using the recommended ARP fastener lube with block threads given a good clean beforehand.

The kit includes two longer studs for the head dowel inserts to ensure all the thread is utilised. The studs are just installed hand tight as long as they bottom out the thread.







I decided to unpack some of old parts from the engine as stripped by Dom at Powers, to see what went wrong in the first place. As you can see below, the big end bearing is completely wrecked, either just failure in itself or as a result of the additional load of an ovalled little end.



Also, as suspected, the original build had the "Indian Rods" installed from the factory. These rods can be identified by the simple tvr lettering cast into the rod, unlike the alternative "Linton" rods also installed at the factory which uses the actual TVR logo.



You would think the Indian rods were installed early doors but this doesn't appear the case, as the spare MY2000 block I have used the Linton rods, whereas my MY2002 block has Indian rods. Maybe they used Indian rods as time progressed to save money then realised the error of their ways and reverted back. Who knows! Not that con rod failure was as big an issue as the finger followers. If only they'd used quality parts from the start in lieu of all the engine testing they didn't do...


Edited by Willfin on Tuesday 31st January 10:33

borat52

559 posts

207 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
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Incredible thread, really sheds some light on what a mine field these engines are due to the way TVR experimented on production models.

Really admire the way you've got hands on with it, amazing work.

Sagi Badger

588 posts

192 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
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Hi,

I notice you have refitted the oil pumps. Hope you don't mind me asking but did you change the bearings, the ball bearings in the pump housings and the needle roller in the block. The water pump is a little more tricky but again you should consider it while it is all open. The water pump will need some thinking about, I have done a couple of these and did photo it all so I could write an article but lost all the pics. Anyway the casting is fragile and the sequence needs thinking about... lots of help there then. One last thing, the HP oil pump has no register dowels and as such can bind in rotation, remember this has to pass each lobe of the rotor over each lobe of the scroll so if it is slightly "out" it may bind on one turn and not another. Turn it slowly by hand and feel for any resistance, you could pour a drop of oil in there as well as you turn it. I find these always have a sweet spot where the four bolts can be tightened up.

Cheers

J

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Thursday 26th January 2017
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I did replace the needle bearing in the block but didn't take a photo! I had the oil pump bearings replaced by a local garage as I don't have a press. Thanks for the advice on the oil pump, I'll take another look at that to make sure it's correctly aligned, although i think the body only fits into the block one way.

I also had a go at replacing the water pump bearings yesterday and made a right arse of it! lol It's quite tricky as the body isn't square and looks like it needs shimmed to align to a press. I duly had a go and cracked the housing! Luckily I had a spare which is now in the post to Powers to let someone with the experience of replacing the bearings carry out that work.

Why aren't replacement pumps just supplied with bearings fitted like any other marque......oh wait! To be fair I think it's because every item on the engine was designed to be made in house, spindles shafts, housings etc.





Edited by Willfin on Thursday 26th January 09:59

RedSpike66

2,336 posts

211 months

Thursday 26th January 2017
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Willfin said:
The studs are just installed hand tight as long as they bottom out the thread.
Really ? I would have thought they needed to be in torque'd up to a setting.. but I know nothing about engine building...

Out of interest, did you tell Dom you were having the FFF head fitted with the high lift cams ??? I was just wondering whether anything ahd to be done about potential piston/valve contact in such cases ??

Pot up some pics of the shiney new head please :-)

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Thursday 26th January 2017
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The hand tight is on the instructions from ARP, surprised me too, but the torque is for the nuts on the top really.

http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/114-4201.p...

I did tell Dom i was thinking about the FFF head, but its a like for like replacement for the original head so not anticipating any issues.

Ill unwrap the head and fit it on Sunday so pictures will arrive then!


m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Thursday 26th January 2017
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RedSpike66 said:
Really ? I would have thought they needed to be in torque'd up to a setting.. but I know nothing about engine building...

Out of interest, did you tell Dom you were having the FFF head fitted with the high lift cams ??? I was just wondering whether anything ahd to be done about potential piston/valve contact in such cases ??

Pot up some pics of the shiney new head please :-)
Studs work on a different principle to actual head bolts. Bolts are torqued and stretched, studs are wound in and the nut used to fix the head in place provides clamping force.

RedSpike66

2,336 posts

211 months

Thursday 26th January 2017
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Another thought.... Compression ratio.... Every picture I've seen of speed six block the Pistons are level with the block deck... 3.6L - 4.5L I'm sure but cud easily be wrong..... Now it's a 4.2 won't the compression ratio shoot up and risk detonation ?

RedSpike66

2,336 posts

211 months

Thursday 26th January 2017
quotequote all
Another thought.... Compression ratio.... Every picture I've seen of speed six block the Pistons are level with the block deck... 3.6L - 4.5L I'm sure but cud easily be wrong..... Now it's a 4.2 won't the compression ratio shoot up and risk detonation ?

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Thursday 26th January 2017
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The pistons on my build are level with the deck block and the pistons are identical in size.

The stroke of the piston or overall diameter are irrelevant to the comp ratio. Its the shape of the top of the piston and the "void" in the cylinder head at TDC that determine the comp ratio. That and the thickness of the head gasket, and both of these are as original spec.

The additional air compressed by the larger cc is compressed into a slightly bigger void at TDC as the shape in the piston crown is bigger relative to the original piston diameter.

That's how I understand it anyway!


Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 23:13

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Friday 27th January 2017
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A little bit of light cleaning this last couple of days whilst waiting to get a full Sunday fitting the head etc.

Took m4tti's advice and used an etch primer prior to final paint. Pleased with the outcome.





I decided to just clean up my original cam and plug covers as they were only recently painted. I noticed some scoring on the inside of the cover where the secondary timing chain has worn against it. Quite deep too! Hoping this doesn't happen with the simplex, and will put a nice thick gasket sealant bead to try to raise it up slightly on final assembly.





Then a parcel arrived from powers with the refurbished water pump. A couple of o-rings and a bit of lube later and it's slid into the block. The woodruff key is quite tight into the shaft so something to look at later on.



All ready for fitment of the cylinder head this weekend, although I need to put some extra support under the engine as I think a fully assembled engine hanging off 4 gearbox bolts into an alloy block is asking for trouble!

Edited by Willfin on Friday 27th January 16:04

Milky400

1,960 posts

177 months

Friday 27th January 2017
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Willfin said:
[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/GEg2vVc2[/ur

]
Loving the black and yellow. Didn't realise you were a Cambridge United fan.... wink