Racing Green - buckets anyone?

[TVR_owner]

Mark,
this is not intended to have as a pop at the Rg mods...BUT, much is made of the increase in torque on this thread. Do not confuse the impact the RG mods make with the normal torque addition from going to 3,6 to 4,0 - its huge in terms of driving feel.

[mhg]

TVR_owner said:

Mark,
this is not intended to have as a pop at the Rg mods...BUT, much is made of the increase in torque on this thread. Do not confuse the impact the RG mods make with the normal torque addition from going to 3,6 to 4,0 - its huge in terms of driving feel.

Ahh... I hadn't realised that it wasn't a 3.6, throws a slightly different light on it (thanks for pointing that out) - still v.smooth though.

Mark

[T40ORA]

mhg said:

TVR_owner said:

Mark,
this is not intended to have as a pop at the Rg mods...BUT, much is made of the increase in torque on this thread. Do not confuse the impact the RG mods make with the normal torque addition from going to 3,6 to 4,0 - its huge in terms of driving feel.

Ahh... I hadn't realised that it wasn't a 3.6, throws a slightly different light on it (thanks for pointing that out) - still v.smooth though.

Mark

John is right, 3.6 - 4.0 does make a difference.

One thing to add though is that I have driven three other 4.0 litre TVRS (Tuscan, Tuscan with Omex and T350 demonstrator a couple of times) and the latest incarnation of the FFF engine is stronger and torquier than any of the others. Not masses, and you wouldn't expect that, but IMO there is a definite difference.

It's all well and good talking theory, but the only way you can make the comparison is to do just that; try the standard 4.0 and then the FFF. It will be good to do just that - get an experienced 4.0 driver to try a later FFF. Maybe Davy Mac is a better judge than me as his Sagaris was obviously 4.0 to start with.

However; the real deal is not with extra power or torque (nice though it is, and I'm looking forward to getting more miles on mine to release some more of that) but with the delivery and smoothness, and general drivability. Certainly long distances are a lot easier to cover.

Glad you liked the car and the drive Mark, and I know what you mean by the pops and bangs! Sports cats and a standard box will cure that. Don't wish away your engine too quickly though! I hope you have many more miles of happy driving before you need a rebuild, and by then the evolution will probably have continued more.

Lee

Edited by T40ORA on Tuesday 28th April 22:19

[d18mca]

Hi All
I agree with Lee.
Drive like for like immediately after one another to get a true measure of the differences.
I will be at a track meet on 4th May and there will be swopping about of various cars etc,so I will get other Sag drivers to try the FFF and give their opinions.I asked Graham Varley to give it a quick trial on the Saturday at Chatsworth and his considered opinion was strong and competent as a drive.
Coming from Graham ,I took that as a positive.
Lee also suggeated at Chatsworth that at some time it would be of interest to do a joint test session between various engine developers at a track or meet,to enable perspective customers to compare and contrast the excellent options now available to Speed six owners.
I too would be interested in this.
The FFF has a very smooth power delivery low down compared to the standard engine,and it also revs more freely at the top end.The car is more comfortable crawling in traffic,and all the pressures are considerably better than before.
The engine has not required any oil in 3000 miles,also a vast improvement.
Each to their own,but I would say,if you are in the market for an upgrade or rebuild,the FFF should at least be in your list for consideration.
I will put up any feedback ,after our May 4th meet.
Davy Mac

[yzf1070]

The Yam bike engine I had ran a similar design bucket and shim head and the valve clearances were checked every 20K service, I needed new shims fitting just before the 40K service. I was wondering if RG have given you guys any indication as to typically what mileage they expect a similar shim change requirement?

[T40ORA]

They're going to use their T35o demo as a guide, and will be stripping and checking regularly, but they are expecting to do 20k checks.

[mhg]

T40ORA said:

...
However; the real deal is not with extra power or torque (nice though it is, and I'm looking forward to getting more miles on mine to release some more of that) but with the delivery and smoothness, and general drivability. Certainly long distances are a lot easier to cover.

Glad you liked the car and the drive Mark, and I know what you mean by the pops and bangs! Sports cats and a standard box will cure that. Don't wish away your engine too quickly though! I hope you have many more miles of happy driving before you need a rebuild, and by then the evolution will probably have continued more.

Lee

Edited by T40ORA on Tuesday 28th April 22:19

Cheers Lee - yes you're right I shouldn't wish my engine away - it was, as you say the smoothness and ease of driving that impressed the most.

Will be really interesting to hear about the SC'ing project (now that will increase the torque some).

Mark

[PascalBuyens]

mhg said:

T40ORA said:

...
However; the real deal is not with extra power or torque (nice though it is, and I'm looking forward to getting more miles on mine to release some more of that) but with the delivery and smoothness, and general drivability. Certainly long distances are a lot easier to cover.

Glad you liked the car and the drive Mark, and I know what you mean by the pops and bangs! Sports cats and a standard box will cure that. Don't wish away your engine too quickly though! I hope you have many more miles of happy driving before you need a rebuild, and by then the evolution will probably have continued more.

Lee

Edited by T40ORA on Tuesday 28th April 22:19

Cheers Lee - yes you're right I shouldn't wish my engine away - it was, as you say the smoothness and ease of driving that impressed the most.

Will be really interesting to hear about the SC'ing project (now that will increase the torque some).

Mark

I'll keep you updated as soon as I have more news

Last time I was at RG, Colin showed me the head of my engine, and the cooling bits for the intercooler. Interesting feeling of holding it and feeling the warmth being drawn away from your hand...

Which reminds me, I must call to ask where they're at...

[T40ORA]

PascalBuyens said:

mhg said:

T40ORA said:

...
However; the real deal is not with extra power or torque (nice though it is, and I'm looking forward to getting more miles on mine to release some more of that) but with the delivery and smoothness, and general drivability. Certainly long distances are a lot easier to cover.

Glad you liked the car and the drive Mark, and I know what you mean by the pops and bangs! Sports cats and a standard box will cure that. Don't wish away your engine too quickly though! I hope you have many more miles of happy driving before you need a rebuild, and by then the evolution will probably have continued more.

Lee

Edited by T40ORA on Tuesday 28th April 22:19

Cheers Lee - yes you're right I shouldn't wish my engine away - it was, as you say the smoothness and ease of driving that impressed the most.

Will be really interesting to hear about the SC'ing project (now that will increase the torque some).

Mark

I'll keep you updated as soon as I have more news

Last time I was at RG, Colin showed me the head of my engine, and the cooling bits for the intercooler. Interesting feeling of holding it and feeling the warmth being drawn away from your hand...

Which reminds me, I must call to ask where they're at...

Good luck Pascal, and I hope that the progress is moving forward quickly for you.

I have to say that my engine is continuing to loosen up and feeling even more sorted, so still all good news and something for you to look forward to. I do hope that you get to enjoy it for at least part of the summer. Just don't post too enthusiatically about it or you'll get told (on PH) that you're mistaken, and there are better and stronger engines out there even if you're just saying that you think yours is great.

I'm getting a little jaded by naysayers and people's misinterpretation, and maybe should keep clear of PH for a few days.

TTFN!

[mhg]

PascalBuyens said:

I'll keep you updated as soon as I have more news

Last time I was at RG, Colin showed me the head of my engine, and the cooling bits for the intercooler. Interesting feeling of holding it and feeling the warmth being drawn away from your hand...

Which reminds me, I must call to ask where they're at...

Cheers Pascal - will be really interested to here of your impressions when you get it back. Are you having the new UCU fitted as well?

[T350 Al]

T40ORA said:

I'm getting a little jaded by naysayers and people's misinterpretation, and maybe should keep clear of PH for a few days.

TTFN!

I really hope the naysayers don't put either you or Pascal off posting here. I for one have thoroughly enjoyed following the progress of the FFF engine through your posts. It's always good to see companies spending money developing the Speed Six further than TVR were able to, but it's even better to watch people like yourselves taking the first steps and adopting the developments 'early'. That you take the time to answer questions and give your opinions on what the developments offer is commendable. Should our car ever go pop, I will be able to make an informed choice thanks to your posts.

Thanks to you both!

[PascalBuyens]

Mark,

The Omex ECU is part of the supercharger conversion, so yes I will have it, as well as the equal lengths exhaust manifold, a triple plate race clutch, superlight flywheel, Quaife differential, CR gearbox and new steering rack joints (ok, that's nothing to do with the conversion, but I need new ones LOL).


Al,

It's going to take a lot of nitpicking to stop me from posting here... Always happy to share my experiences. As for being an "early adapter"... Just call me car crazy, when people started to do Honda conversions on Elises, I was one of the first to adapt that too... Didn't regret a single minute of it, and looking at the quality of the RG engine (I may be in Belgium, but I've been following quite closely how much work went into the FFF engine, since I left my car at RG), I'm very convinced that even in SC form, the engine will be bullet proof... (Or should I say bullet fast LOL)

And I'll happily share my experiences, if I can help anyone out with any questions they have...

[ceejay]

What sort of power levels and rpm limits are we looking at with the SC version compared to the NA setup?

[PascalBuyens]

ceejay said:

What sort of power levels and rpm limits are we looking at with the SC version compared to the NA setup?

NA version should be on the better side of 400 with 11:1 compression, the T350 in NA has got 392bhp (with 10:1 CR).

Colin is keeping quite conservative in terms of power output, saying that they'll keep somewhere around 480-500bhp for running in. I told them that I'm looking for 600bhp, and they know I don't want the car back until I've got that

[TVR_owner]

T350 Al said:

T40ORA said:

I'm getting a little jaded by naysayers and people's misinterpretation, and maybe should keep clear of PH for a few days.

TTFN!

I really hope the naysayers don't put either you or Pascal off posting here. I for one have thoroughly enjoyed following the progress of the FFF engine through your posts. It's always good to see companies spending money developing the Speed Six further than TVR were able to, but it's even better to watch people like yourselves taking the first steps and adopting the developments 'early'. That you take the time to answer questions and give your opinions on what the developments offer is commendable. Should our car ever go pop, I will be able to make an informed choice thanks to your posts.

Thanks to you both!

Please don't get all confused with people excercising caution for what IS an expensive rebuild and nay sayers. Should your engine go pop in the short term, these posts are no more than early indication that all seems to be well with the RG solution? The posts are by a very enthusiatsic Lee who is the first customer, the other not to be damped down enthusiast who sings the virtues of the engine, does not have his yet.

For what its worth, this "naysayer" hopes this option for a rebuild does proves to be a a good alternative - the balance in terms of the economics are down to the individual to stomach or otherwise. I hope Pascal and Lee have very many pleasure free miles with their cars and they deliver what they expect.

[PascalBuyens]

TVR_owner said:

Please don't get all confused with people excercising caution for what IS an expensive rebuild and nay sayers. Should your engine go pop in the short term, these posts are no more than early indication that all seems to be well with the RG solution? The posts are by a very enthusiatsic Lee who is the first customer, the other not to be damped down enthusiast who sings the virtues of the engine, does not have his yet.

For what its worth, this "naysayer" hopes this option for a rebuild does proves to be a a good alternative - the balance in terms of the economics are down to the individual to stomach or otherwise. I hope Pascal and Lee have very many pleasure free miles with their cars and they deliver what they expect.

Davy has got his engine too...

I'm sure, once I get mine, I won't be able to shut up about it LOL

[CarolsGriff]

T40ORA said:

Just had a great drive up to and down from Chatsworth today, after it's running in service. Realyy running, very nicely.

So far there has been one test pilot of the T350 demo car that doesn't like it. A German lady who said, wait for it....... it felt too much like a BMW!

I'm still mulling that one over.....

Hi Guys,

Sorry, I'm pretty late with my answer but being the German lady, let me clarify:
I really like the FFF, it is smooth, fast, apparently very easy to drive and I am very sure that this brilliant engine will be a success. But apart from all these obvious advantages it has lost a bit of the TVR-typical (love it or hate it) attitude and behaviour.

I just love the fact that my TVR always "talks" to me, driving it is more of an interaction of car and driver than in other cars. The FFF just goes and goes and goes. Great but not my approach. But if you have enough of the fact that it breaks down every 200 yards and if you are tired of listening to every rattle, go for it. It's great. But not for me.

Cheers
Carol

Edited by CarolsGriff on Wednesday 6th May 14:20

[d18mca]

Carol

I can appreciate where you're coming from.
The engine does take away some of the TVR'ness we have become accustomed to, however if you open it up it still provides glorious noises from the rear and plenty of pops and bangs on the overrun.
I also enjoy listening to the wife roaring off to work in the Griff.
As long as we keep enjoying the Marque for the pleasure it brings we can keep on smiling!
Davy mac

[Griffithy]

Hi Caro!

Great to see you enjoing the Griff
and its silky smooth V8.


Brings up great nostalgic memories,





Hi from Austria,

Martin

[T40ORA]

CarolsGriff said:

But apart from all these obvious advantages it has lost a bit of the TVR-typical (love it or hate it) attitude and behaviour.

Hi Carol,

I think that you were in Racing Green when I collected my car from its service.

I too know what you mean, but for me it's a bit like having a knee operation and missing the limp! You knew before you had it done that you could run at speed, but getting there was sometimes painful.

Maybe there is a touch of the masochist about TVR owners.....