Discussion
t imoI had a Bose system in my 350Z, it was pretty rubbish, my Merc has the standard speaker system, as opposed to the optional Harmon Kardon one and it is really quite good, well certainly streets ahead of the Bose.
I think Bose stuff is overrated, though, to be fair the noise cancelling headphones are fantastic and just replaced an old Sound dock with a Sonos 3 and to be honest the Bose was as good or better sound wise, for £13 added a bluetooth receiver to the Sound Dock and it lives on, need not have bothered with the Sonos. I think Bose is a bit hit and miss, people who have never heard a full on proper hifi think its awesome, but in reality they seem to put their name to some pretty sub par stuff if the system in the 350Z and the Audi one are anything to go by.
I think Bose stuff is overrated, though, to be fair the noise cancelling headphones are fantastic and just replaced an old Sound dock with a Sonos 3 and to be honest the Bose was as good or better sound wise, for £13 added a bluetooth receiver to the Sound Dock and it lives on, need not have bothered with the Sonos. I think Bose is a bit hit and miss, people who have never heard a full on proper hifi think its awesome, but in reality they seem to put their name to some pretty sub par stuff if the system in the 350Z and the Audi one are anything to go by.
Remember as well they're not *always* B&W speakers...
I used to work for a reputable car audio manufacturer who are well-known for their aftermarket products; we used to sell a fair number of our speakers to B&W white-labelled which they'd stick their logo on then install in new cars as an OEM upgrade.
I used to work for a reputable car audio manufacturer who are well-known for their aftermarket products; we used to sell a fair number of our speakers to B&W white-labelled which they'd stick their logo on then install in new cars as an OEM upgrade.
What a crock o' crap that article is and the Sensus Connect system isn't much better.
For £3k, I'd be expecting SACD/Blu-Ray Audio/Hi-Res playback. Can it do those? Nope.
Can it do DSD playback from a thumb-drive? Nope.
Can it do FLAC from a thumb-drive? Nope.
£3k for a CD player and some fancy speakers? Emperor's new clothes mate.
'But Sir, it'll make the car more desirable when up for resale and push up future residuals.'
For £3k, I'd be expecting SACD/Blu-Ray Audio/Hi-Res playback. Can it do those? Nope.
Can it do DSD playback from a thumb-drive? Nope.
Can it do FLAC from a thumb-drive? Nope.
£3k for a CD player and some fancy speakers? Emperor's new clothes mate.
'But Sir, it'll make the car more desirable when up for resale and push up future residuals.'
I've been installing my own stereos in cars for years and my favoured set up is the best pair of components you can afford and an amplifier which can run with bags of headroom. Plus a dedicated sub and sub amp. The next most important thing is to make sure the comp speakers are mounted to something as solid and insert as possible, then add some sound deadening. You don't need hundreds of speakers. One pair of really well driven components is enough for everything above 80hz.
I've never heard an in car system that sounded anywhere near as good as a half competent home set up, mainly because if you are setting up an ideal listening environment, it wouldn't look anything like the interior of a car.
Car systems need to have sufficient grunt to overcome the racket that driving makes, and they need to have sufficient frequency response to reproduce the music reasonably well. Positioning, depth, imaging, all that stuff, forget it. Mainly because if it is right for the driver, it will be utterly wrong for a passenger and vice versa. You can process the signal all you want, that just makes it sound worse.
It's worth spending a few quid to get something better than the crummy OE speakers and a half decent amp, but beyond that, diminishing returns sets in fast.
The Bose system in Alfas is utter cack - it sends high level outputs to the amp over non co-ax cables, and thus hisses like a snake. The standard system is way better once you've thrown some decent speakers in.
Car systems need to have sufficient grunt to overcome the racket that driving makes, and they need to have sufficient frequency response to reproduce the music reasonably well. Positioning, depth, imaging, all that stuff, forget it. Mainly because if it is right for the driver, it will be utterly wrong for a passenger and vice versa. You can process the signal all you want, that just makes it sound worse.
It's worth spending a few quid to get something better than the crummy OE speakers and a half decent amp, but beyond that, diminishing returns sets in fast.
The Bose system in Alfas is utter cack - it sends high level outputs to the amp over non co-ax cables, and thus hisses like a snake. The standard system is way better once you've thrown some decent speakers in.
rxe said:
I've never heard an in car system that sounded anywhere near as good as a half competent home set up, mainly because if you are setting up an ideal listening environment, it wouldn't look anything like the interior of a car.
Car systems need to have sufficient grunt to overcome the racket that driving makes, and they need to have sufficient frequency response to reproduce the music reasonably well. Positioning, depth, imaging, all that stuff, forget it. Mainly because if it is right for the driver, it will be utterly wrong for a passenger and vice versa. You can process the signal all you want, that just makes it sound worse.
It's worth spending a few quid to get something better than the crummy OE speakers and a half decent amp, but beyond that, diminishing returns sets in fast.
+1Car systems need to have sufficient grunt to overcome the racket that driving makes, and they need to have sufficient frequency response to reproduce the music reasonably well. Positioning, depth, imaging, all that stuff, forget it. Mainly because if it is right for the driver, it will be utterly wrong for a passenger and vice versa. You can process the signal all you want, that just makes it sound worse.
It's worth spending a few quid to get something better than the crummy OE speakers and a half decent amp, but beyond that, diminishing returns sets in fast.
Or just concentrate on driving whilst have Radio 4 on in the background
But it's silly to compare a domestic setup to a car setup in the first place, in the same way it is to compare a living room to an anechoic chamber. I've heard some car systems that sound a lot better than domestic ones, and vice versa. Regardless of the listening environment, it's all in the component choice, installation quality and setup.
Harmon Kardon, Bang & Olufsen automotive, Mark Levinson, Becker and Infinity are all just brand names now owned by Harmon group, (which has now just been bought out by Samsung) - I wonder how much difference there is between the systems, or whether it is just a big branding exercise now - much easier to flog a £3k option if it has a snazzy badge on the tweeter.
In my experience on the 2 series BMW's HK option only upgrades you from "appallingly bad" to "just about acceptable".
I wonder how much weight comes into the design spec of OEM hifi's? The biggest difference I notice with after market kit is that it weighs loads more than the flimsy plastic OEM stuff.
In my experience on the 2 series BMW's HK option only upgrades you from "appallingly bad" to "just about acceptable".
I wonder how much weight comes into the design spec of OEM hifi's? The biggest difference I notice with after market kit is that it weighs loads more than the flimsy plastic OEM stuff.
mr_fibuli said:
In my experience on the 2 series BMW's HK option only upgrades you from "appallingly bad" to "just about acceptable".
Very much this.The sound from the standard stereo system in modern BMWs would have been barely acceptable in a cheap family hatchback 20 years ago. It is genuinely appalling. The Harman Kardon upgrade is simply providing what you would expect to see in a relatively expensive car as standard, but cleverly uses a brand name to justify both its relegation to the options list, and its ticket price. It's marketing genius.
And I seriously doubt HK had much to do with the end result at all.
Very little beats the Volvo branded systems in the original P2 based S60 and 2nd gen V70 models, IMHO. Standard fit, and bloody brilliant, even without the Pro Logic.
Edited by Limpet on Monday 14th November 16:35
Limpet said:
Very little beats the Volvo branded systems in the original P2 based S60 and 2nd gen V70 models, IMHO. Standard fit, and bloody brilliant, even without the Pro Logic.
There were excellent, but the Dynaudio system in my 2008 C70 is a big upgrade again on that. Sadly the standard non upgraded stereo in our new XC60 is a bit of a letdown. It's probably about as good as the upgraded HK system in a 3 series but no better, I didn't bother ticking the upgrade box as I'd expected the "standard" to be about as good as in our 13 year old V70.I would agree that for most manufacturers the branded audio upgrades are a cynical ploy and often not really very good, but Volvo seem to have been taking the quality of their in car audio systems quite seriously since at least the mid 90s. The Mk1 C70 was stuffed with high quality drivers built by Dynaudio, although the system itself was not "branded" as such.
I do think they've become very greedy asking £3k for the upgraded system in the new cars though, I think the Dynaudio upgrade for my C70 was about a grand.
[quote]to go buy
[/quote]
Sums up this article. Disappointed, ph. Deserves to be called "advertorial" and makes me wonder about your car reviews.
Example? "They go to 70kHz, so they must be better!" Got anything in the car that can go anywhere near that? (assuming you know why nyquist is relevant)
[/quote]
Sums up this article. Disappointed, ph. Deserves to be called "advertorial" and makes me wonder about your car reviews.
Example? "They go to 70kHz, so they must be better!" Got anything in the car that can go anywhere near that? (assuming you know why nyquist is relevant)
J4CKO said:
I had a Bose system in my 350Z, it was pretty rubbish, my Merc has the standard speaker system, as opposed to the optional Harmon Kardon one and it is really quite good, well certainly streets ahead of the Bose.
The Bose unit in the 350Z is a just a re-badged Clarion unit, so that probably tells you all you need to know! Saw this the other day too, which made me chuckle:Buy
Other
Superior
Equipment
I'd never heard that before, sounds about right.
As previously said though, if you put crap in then you'll get crap out.
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