Garmin 2008 maps?
Discussion
Yes, I used one in Canada.
If you have to brake or manoeuvre suddenly, you have to scrabble around trying to find where the thing has flown. I'm glad we had a rented GPS as I wouldn't want mine to be thrown around risking damage. I thought it was pretty poor.
A proper automotive mount is MUCH better!
If you have to brake or manoeuvre suddenly, you have to scrabble around trying to find where the thing has flown. I'm glad we had a rented GPS as I wouldn't want mine to be thrown around risking damage. I thought it was pretty poor.
A proper automotive mount is MUCH better!
snorky said:
Uploaded my "2008" maps and set off down the A1 - maps incorrect already !!! Gonerby Moor roundabout bypass not on "new" maps even thought it's been in construction all thru 2007.......since then spotted loads of wrong bits - thinking about a refund.
Interesting - please keep us informed! 
Similar topic on another forum highlighted the fact that Navteq and Teleatlas, who supply the majority of Sat Nav makers between them, take some time to collate and check all their information when putting their map data together for updates. The individual Sat Nav companies then also take their time making sure all the new data works with their units etc. so that by the time the 'new' maps are released to the public, the information can be 12 months old, and relatively out of date.
The only guarantee is that they should be more relevant than the maps they are replacing.
The only guarantee is that they should be more relevant than the maps they are replacing.
And now, a few months later, Garmin want another £60 for the 2009 map update.
That's taking the pi$$ rather, given that there were so many errors on the 2008 map released only 7 months ago.
Still, I tried to order it from their lousy website and it just sent me round in circles! So I will now wait until Amazon or someone as user-friendly have it for sale.
That's taking the pi$$ rather, given that there were so many errors on the 2008 map released only 7 months ago.
Still, I tried to order it from their lousy website and it just sent me round in circles! So I will now wait until Amazon or someone as user-friendly have it for sale.
Given that since I paid for this years update, I've had to pay for repair/replacement for both the Sat Nav and Traffic module, I won't be updating again.
I'll think about replacing the Sat Nav, instead of updating the maps, when a device is available with traffic built in, that doesn't require the power lead permanently connected.
I'll think about replacing the Sat Nav, instead of updating the maps, when a device is available with traffic built in, that doesn't require the power lead permanently connected.
niva441 - I agree. It's about time Garmin got rid of that silly power lead with the TMC receiver and black string.
If the technology exists to include an integral GPS antenna, it cannot really be rocket science to come up with a better TMC solution than the current one.
Another thing I'd like to see is an embedded GSM/3G link to receive automatic weekly map updates as part of the contract - 3G certainly has the bandwidth for that. Every time you switch on the GPS, it should do a quick check to see whether there's an update available, then ask you if you want to download it. Garmin are far too keen on including silly kiddie features such as MP3 players and picture files and should spend more research time on improving core navigation functionality.
If the technology exists to include an integral GPS antenna, it cannot really be rocket science to come up with a better TMC solution than the current one.
Another thing I'd like to see is an embedded GSM/3G link to receive automatic weekly map updates as part of the contract - 3G certainly has the bandwidth for that. Every time you switch on the GPS, it should do a quick check to see whether there's an update available, then ask you if you want to download it. Garmin are far too keen on including silly kiddie features such as MP3 players and picture files and should spend more research time on improving core navigation functionality.
Edited by nickwilcock on Monday 27th October 20:14
The thing is, a 2008 or 2009 map isn't actually accurate to 2008 or 2009... what it basically means is that it is the most current version available. The actual data can take up to 12 months to be captured by Navteq or Tele Atlas, processed, packaged and shipped to the manufacturers who then incorporate that map data into their own map products.
This time frame basically means that a map is only accurate to roughly a year prior to it's publish date, so a 2009 map will be roughly accurate to a point in October/November 2007, and any changes since then have a chance not to have been incorporated into it.
Of course, major changes are usually expedited before a major mapping update (a couple of years ago the A1 was re-routed outside of Wetherby iirc, and this wasn't on the 05 TomTom maps, but it was on the 06, despite it being finished only a few months prior to the 06 release. The 06 Garmin maps had people driving across a field at the time!) but this is the exception rather than the rule.
This time frame basically means that a map is only accurate to roughly a year prior to it's publish date, so a 2009 map will be roughly accurate to a point in October/November 2007, and any changes since then have a chance not to have been incorporated into it.
Of course, major changes are usually expedited before a major mapping update (a couple of years ago the A1 was re-routed outside of Wetherby iirc, and this wasn't on the 05 TomTom maps, but it was on the 06, despite it being finished only a few months prior to the 06 release. The 06 Garmin maps had people driving across a field at the time!) but this is the exception rather than the rule.
As for the TMC thing, it's a good idea but it is changing a sat nav from being a portable device, to a hardwire requirement.
The box and string solution for TMC is unfortunately the best way to do it at the minute. TomTom are changing this with TomTom Live, on the x40 series of Go units by using a GSM card which downloads traffic reports using both data supplied by iTIS and also Vodafone (complex gubbins which boils down to cell handover times, if a lot of phones are stopped in one area, and it cross references to the M1 or wherever, it re-references it with iTIS and alerts to a traffic jam... basically)
As for 3G/HSDPA being able to transfer map information, sadly - not at the minute. There isn't anywhere near the bandwidth requirement for that at the present. a 7.2mbps HSDPA connection would still take the best part of 40 mins to download a 1.5gb map file, that's pretty much running at theoretical maximums and not taking into account signal fluctuations or loss of network.
Most people complain when a satnav takes 5 mins to find a GPS signal, if it took 40 mins to do a download before it allowed you to use it, then it wouldn't be much use at all! TomTom LIVE isn't even going to allow Mapshare changes to be downloaded via the 3G/GSM SIM card as the bandwidth simply isn't available. Remember though, that a Mapshare change is a miniscule fraction of the information contained in a regular, full fat map update.
Navman used to do a TMC box for the F-Series units, that had a mini MCX connector for the TMC aerial hookup, this could be hacked - by way of a couple of adaptors - to take a regular DIN/ISO aerial fitting and hooked into the car aerial. This improved reception no end, but still didn't solve the problem of arguments between iTIS and TrafficMaster which lead to certain transmitters being turned off (North West England used to be a blackspot for TMC, I'm not sure on the current status of it right now, however). No transmitters, no information.
Also, TMC isn't an exact science - it relies on two methods of information gathering; blue poles in the case of TrafficMaster (Garmin's TMC Provider) which need to have info relayed to a central control hub, then relayed to radio stations in order to transmit the info to the TMC receivers in sat nav devices etc, all increasing a latency of the information which means less time to avoid or react to jams, and less time to respond to the "all clear" signal, and local radio traffic information in the case of iTIS (TomTom's Over-The-Air TMC Provider). The iTIS way (journalistic information) is slow as it relies on people phoning in or traffic helicopters informing radio stations of problems (amongst other ways of getting info), which are then transmitted on the iTIS network to receivers in sat nav devices. Again, the same latency and decay problems are observed, and I'd personally say that TMC is really only accurate about 80% of the time, still good when it gets you out of problems, but don't expect the world.
Sorry this has rambled on so much, but I kinda got my teeth into it a bit!!
The box and string solution for TMC is unfortunately the best way to do it at the minute. TomTom are changing this with TomTom Live, on the x40 series of Go units by using a GSM card which downloads traffic reports using both data supplied by iTIS and also Vodafone (complex gubbins which boils down to cell handover times, if a lot of phones are stopped in one area, and it cross references to the M1 or wherever, it re-references it with iTIS and alerts to a traffic jam... basically)
As for 3G/HSDPA being able to transfer map information, sadly - not at the minute. There isn't anywhere near the bandwidth requirement for that at the present. a 7.2mbps HSDPA connection would still take the best part of 40 mins to download a 1.5gb map file, that's pretty much running at theoretical maximums and not taking into account signal fluctuations or loss of network.
Most people complain when a satnav takes 5 mins to find a GPS signal, if it took 40 mins to do a download before it allowed you to use it, then it wouldn't be much use at all! TomTom LIVE isn't even going to allow Mapshare changes to be downloaded via the 3G/GSM SIM card as the bandwidth simply isn't available. Remember though, that a Mapshare change is a miniscule fraction of the information contained in a regular, full fat map update.
Navman used to do a TMC box for the F-Series units, that had a mini MCX connector for the TMC aerial hookup, this could be hacked - by way of a couple of adaptors - to take a regular DIN/ISO aerial fitting and hooked into the car aerial. This improved reception no end, but still didn't solve the problem of arguments between iTIS and TrafficMaster which lead to certain transmitters being turned off (North West England used to be a blackspot for TMC, I'm not sure on the current status of it right now, however). No transmitters, no information.
Also, TMC isn't an exact science - it relies on two methods of information gathering; blue poles in the case of TrafficMaster (Garmin's TMC Provider) which need to have info relayed to a central control hub, then relayed to radio stations in order to transmit the info to the TMC receivers in sat nav devices etc, all increasing a latency of the information which means less time to avoid or react to jams, and less time to respond to the "all clear" signal, and local radio traffic information in the case of iTIS (TomTom's Over-The-Air TMC Provider). The iTIS way (journalistic information) is slow as it relies on people phoning in or traffic helicopters informing radio stations of problems (amongst other ways of getting info), which are then transmitted on the iTIS network to receivers in sat nav devices. Again, the same latency and decay problems are observed, and I'd personally say that TMC is really only accurate about 80% of the time, still good when it gets you out of problems, but don't expect the world.
Sorry this has rambled on so much, but I kinda got my teeth into it a bit!!
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