Responsibility not to scare oncoming traffic
Discussion
davepoth said:
In the situation above, I'd be thinking "queue of traffic coming the other way, and there's room for me to make a move; what if someone tries the same thing coming the other way?"
Quite a few variables in play, and I'm not sure I'd have had time to process them all fully before starting the pass.
Pretty much that says it for me, especially on the linked road in question.Quite a few variables in play, and I'm not sure I'd have had time to process them all fully before starting the pass.
OP, be wary of furious driving charge, often used in IoM. Was even used on a competitor out on recce for the Manx who was completely in obeyance of the rally regs re conduct of driving. Ended up not guilty but even so.
davepoth said:
otolith said:
StressedDave said:
otolith said:
I didn't read it as moaning - he appears to be considering whether, given the reaction it provoked, he should not have taken a safe overtake in case it frightened the metaphorical horses.
If it frightens the metaphorical horses and they bolt, then it's not a safe overtake...That and most drivers seem to sit rigidly behind the wheel staring straight ahead, so they don't know you took advantage of the countryside and looked through the gap in the hedge etc.
Lost count of the number of times I have seen an oncoming overtake early, come off the gas, taken a few mph off without drama and watched the clown move back safely to their own side of the road thinking 'wow, didn't I judge that overtake perfectly'.
If only they knew.
See all these fatal head on's?
Do you really think they overtook when they knew there was not time?
If only they knew.
See all these fatal head on's?
Do you really think they overtook when they knew there was not time?
7db said:
Positive lateral movement towards the nearside can help with the left indicator as well to create a "heading back" impression.
I always wave a friendly wave if I get a flash. It can diffuse, thank, apologise and much more. Such a versatile gesture.
I blow them a kiss, they seem to like that.... overtaking is fast becoming a lost skill!I always wave a friendly wave if I get a flash. It can diffuse, thank, apologise and much more. Such a versatile gesture.
waremark said:
PS Overtaking is one of the most difficult aspects of driving to judge, as well as one of the most dangerous. If in doubt, don't. It is never a bad decision not to overtake.
This.IIRC when I did my advanced driving (um 17 years ago
) it was very much a case of make progress but actively do nothing that causes another driver to change direction or speed unless to avoid a collision.I overtake slower traffic (and I have a fairly powerful car wooooo!) but only if I can see nothing coming towards me for at least twice the distance as the overtake will take to execute and preferably if nothing is in view at all. I would rather not make an iffy overtake and get home in one piece albeit a few minutes later than have to live with causing a serious accident because I was impatient with Doris doing 40mph in front of me.
And, as others have said, in the event of it all going wrong a few minutes down the road (even if not your fault) then you can bet your bottom dollar Doris will happily explain to the plod how you flew past her like an idiot just before hand.
Edited by veryRS on Sunday 1st April 17:11
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree. But the public perception of things changes (rightly or wrongly) and you have to adapt or end up unwittingly on the wrong side of the law. And so 20 years ago you could overtake with impunity and almost no one would bat an eye now you can't, now you have to be squeaky clean when overtaking. Or you can do as you wish but run the risk of Doris letting plod know how you ate her babies and turn into a vampire at night. And if her perception was that you were speeding too when you naughtily overtook her then you are better off declaring your self as a child molester since you'll be looked on as less of a pariah.
I often get flashed after overtaking. My car is pretty quick and fairly loud when on boost, so most of the time, it's because I've woken the driver from their semi-concious state.
I also have a fairly recognisable plate, so many people would have no problem identifying me. However, it doesn't stop me overtaking, as I only ever do it when there's plenty of room.
It seems there's an ever-increasing intolerance of quick driving. I was pulled a couple of weeks ago by a bike cop, who (despite not being anywhere near close enough to register my speed) gave me a stern lecture about my "stupidly dangerous" driving. When I asked him which aspect specifically, he just spouted that I stuck out like a sore thumb because I was going faster than everyone else. I politely told him it was because everyone else was doing 35-40mph on a 70mph dual carriageway and that any car (me) that was doing the speed limit would indeed look faster than everyone else. He then changed tack and accused me of "accelerating like a lunatic". I pointed out my boost controller setting (which was set to "off", giving me base boost and about 300bhp). He wasn't overly impressed when I told him the car would go at least 50% faster if the mood had taken me, and he was even less impressed when I pointed out that I didn't believe there was a law that restricted how quickly one reached the speed limit. He threatened to take me to court for dangerous driving, at which point I threatened to accept his offer, on the grounds that he had no evidence. He then got all superior and decided to "let me off this time"....
However, it got me thinking that the norm is now to potter around at almost pedestrian speeds and anyone that actually drives with a modicum of enthusiasm is regarded as a hardened criminal.
Sad times....
I also have a fairly recognisable plate, so many people would have no problem identifying me. However, it doesn't stop me overtaking, as I only ever do it when there's plenty of room.
It seems there's an ever-increasing intolerance of quick driving. I was pulled a couple of weeks ago by a bike cop, who (despite not being anywhere near close enough to register my speed) gave me a stern lecture about my "stupidly dangerous" driving. When I asked him which aspect specifically, he just spouted that I stuck out like a sore thumb because I was going faster than everyone else. I politely told him it was because everyone else was doing 35-40mph on a 70mph dual carriageway and that any car (me) that was doing the speed limit would indeed look faster than everyone else. He then changed tack and accused me of "accelerating like a lunatic". I pointed out my boost controller setting (which was set to "off", giving me base boost and about 300bhp). He wasn't overly impressed when I told him the car would go at least 50% faster if the mood had taken me, and he was even less impressed when I pointed out that I didn't believe there was a law that restricted how quickly one reached the speed limit. He threatened to take me to court for dangerous driving, at which point I threatened to accept his offer, on the grounds that he had no evidence. He then got all superior and decided to "let me off this time"....
However, it got me thinking that the norm is now to potter around at almost pedestrian speeds and anyone that actually drives with a modicum of enthusiasm is regarded as a hardened criminal.
Sad times....
Nigel_O said:
I often get flashed after overtaking. My car is pretty quick and fairly loud when on boost, so most of the time, it's because I've woken the driver from their semi-concious state.
I also have a fairly recognisable plate, so many people would have no problem identifying me. However, it doesn't stop me overtaking, as I only ever do it when there's plenty of room.
It seems there's an ever-increasing intolerance of quick driving. I was pulled a couple of weeks ago by a bike cop, who (despite not being anywhere near close enough to register my speed) gave me a stern lecture about my "stupidly dangerous" driving. When I asked him which aspect specifically, he just spouted that I stuck out like a sore thumb because I was going faster than everyone else. I politely told him it was because everyone else was doing 35-40mph on a 70mph dual carriageway and that any car (me) that was doing the speed limit would indeed look faster than everyone else. He then changed tack and accused me of "accelerating like a lunatic". I pointed out my boost controller setting (which was set to "off", giving me base boost and about 300bhp). He wasn't overly impressed when I told him the car would go at least 50% faster if the mood had taken me, and he was even less impressed when I pointed out that I didn't believe there was a law that restricted how quickly one reached the speed limit. He threatened to take me to court for dangerous driving, at which point I threatened to accept his offer, on the grounds that he had no evidence. He then got all superior and decided to "let me off this time"....
However, it got me thinking that the norm is now to potter around at almost pedestrian speeds and anyone that actually drives with a modicum of enthusiasm is regarded as a hardened criminal.
Sad times....
Never ever admit to anyone you accelerate quickly. Honestly you're better off telling them you are a child molester.I also have a fairly recognisable plate, so many people would have no problem identifying me. However, it doesn't stop me overtaking, as I only ever do it when there's plenty of room.
It seems there's an ever-increasing intolerance of quick driving. I was pulled a couple of weeks ago by a bike cop, who (despite not being anywhere near close enough to register my speed) gave me a stern lecture about my "stupidly dangerous" driving. When I asked him which aspect specifically, he just spouted that I stuck out like a sore thumb because I was going faster than everyone else. I politely told him it was because everyone else was doing 35-40mph on a 70mph dual carriageway and that any car (me) that was doing the speed limit would indeed look faster than everyone else. He then changed tack and accused me of "accelerating like a lunatic". I pointed out my boost controller setting (which was set to "off", giving me base boost and about 300bhp). He wasn't overly impressed when I told him the car would go at least 50% faster if the mood had taken me, and he was even less impressed when I pointed out that I didn't believe there was a law that restricted how quickly one reached the speed limit. He threatened to take me to court for dangerous driving, at which point I threatened to accept his offer, on the grounds that he had no evidence. He then got all superior and decided to "let me off this time"....
However, it got me thinking that the norm is now to potter around at almost pedestrian speeds and anyone that actually drives with a modicum of enthusiasm is regarded as a hardened criminal.
Sad times....
Nigel_O said:
I often get flashed after overtaking. My car is pretty quick and fairly loud when on boost, so most of the time, it's because I've woken the driver from their semi-concious state.
I also have a fairly recognisable plate, so many people would have no problem identifying me. However, it doesn't stop me overtaking, as I only ever do it when there's plenty of room.
It seems there's an ever-increasing intolerance of quick driving. I was pulled a couple of weeks ago by a bike cop, who (despite not being anywhere near close enough to register my speed) gave me a stern lecture about my "stupidly dangerous" driving. When I asked him which aspect specifically, he just spouted that I stuck out like a sore thumb because I was going faster than everyone else. I politely told him it was because everyone else was doing 35-40mph on a 70mph dual carriageway and that any car (me) that was doing the speed limit would indeed look faster than everyone else. He then changed tack and accused me of "accelerating like a lunatic". I pointed out my boost controller setting (which was set to "off", giving me base boost and about 300bhp). He wasn't overly impressed when I told him the car would go at least 50% faster if the mood had taken me, and he was even less impressed when I pointed out that I didn't believe there was a law that restricted how quickly one reached the speed limit. He threatened to take me to court for dangerous driving, at which point I threatened to accept his offer, on the grounds that he had no evidence. He then got all superior and decided to "let me off this time"....
However, it got me thinking that the norm is now to potter around at almost pedestrian speeds and anyone that actually drives with a modicum of enthusiasm is regarded as a hardened criminal.
Sad times....
I've always wondered whether the police will stop you for quick acceleration. I also have a fairly recognisable plate, so many people would have no problem identifying me. However, it doesn't stop me overtaking, as I only ever do it when there's plenty of room.
It seems there's an ever-increasing intolerance of quick driving. I was pulled a couple of weeks ago by a bike cop, who (despite not being anywhere near close enough to register my speed) gave me a stern lecture about my "stupidly dangerous" driving. When I asked him which aspect specifically, he just spouted that I stuck out like a sore thumb because I was going faster than everyone else. I politely told him it was because everyone else was doing 35-40mph on a 70mph dual carriageway and that any car (me) that was doing the speed limit would indeed look faster than everyone else. He then changed tack and accused me of "accelerating like a lunatic". I pointed out my boost controller setting (which was set to "off", giving me base boost and about 300bhp). He wasn't overly impressed when I told him the car would go at least 50% faster if the mood had taken me, and he was even less impressed when I pointed out that I didn't believe there was a law that restricted how quickly one reached the speed limit. He threatened to take me to court for dangerous driving, at which point I threatened to accept his offer, on the grounds that he had no evidence. He then got all superior and decided to "let me off this time"....
However, it got me thinking that the norm is now to potter around at almost pedestrian speeds and anyone that actually drives with a modicum of enthusiasm is regarded as a hardened criminal.
Sad times....
My car is also antisocially loud, and pretty nippy up to the speed limit (although not as quick as yours if you're indeed the Nigel with the trillion horsepower Fiat!), and I generally have fun nailing it up to the speed limit.
A mixture of decent tyres and 160bhp means my car won't break traction, it doesn't torque steer - it just goes, quickly, uneventfully, but bloody noisily, up to 60-70mph. Always wondered whether driving like that with the police behind / next to me or whatnot is likely to get me pulled.
Just makes me wonder what they will stop you for.
That said, I've never been stopped without due cause - once was a random one as the car I was driving had no MOT, tax (or indeed insurance) - was my bloody mother's car and everything ran out the day before!! - there's reason to check the tax disc if ever you borrow a car, we both ended up with fines for that one.
Other one was for overtaking at 95mph, which I thankfully got let off for.
Either way, BiB were perfectly harmless, and these things go a lot more smoothly if you're simply polite. I certainly wasn't going to apologise for the latter, but neither did I try to make excuses - they seemed to appreciate that.
As to the topic, I wouldn't overtake if there's the chance somebody is going to brake or swerve, I just prefer to have more space. I overtake to carry on at a speed I'm happy with, not to end up with my heart in my mouth or scaring the crap out of somebody!!
That said, I think you can tell quite a bit about how they **may** react by the sort of car they're driving, the way the traffic behind them is reacting to them (is there a big long line of cars being held up behind them?), the speed they're travelling at - lots of things hint at the sort of driver they are and how they may react to you overtaking.
I do agree with the points above though - lots of people simply will not overtake. Probably about 10 per cent of my friends would. None of my female relatives would. Most are just happy to sit at whatever speed, and far too close to the car in front.
That's the thing that annoys me more. I couldn't care less if they want to overtake or not - just leave a decent gap if not, so I can overtake one car safely without having to overtake 5!
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Friday 6th April 00:58
pthelazyjourno said:
(although not as quick as yours if you're indeed the Nigel with the trillion horsepower Fiat!), and I generally have fun nailing it up to the speed limit.
Yup - that'll be me, unless you're the bike cop in question, in which case it most definitely isn't, officer 
I have to admit, my car is too fast to enjoy properly without risking a court appearance. It'll do 0-100 in 9 seconds and it doesn't really start to struggle until after 140. I've never found out what to speed it'll do (although when I have a couple of hundred notes to spare, you'll find me at a V-Max event - I'd really like to know)
However, back on topic, despite the 450 bhp, I find I get most enjoyment at relatively modest speeds - the way it punches from 40mph to
And there lies another problem - if the only way to overtake is to get past half a dozen in one hit, it's very easy to be travelling pretty quickly by the time you're going past the 4th or 5th in the line. I've been pulled out on several times by cars that simply didn't consider that someone else could be overtaking from further back.
I too would like to know what Plod thinks about rapid acceleration. In my (biased) view, the faster one gets up to the required speed to perform an overtake, the less time it takes, and thus the less time is spent on the wrong side of the road. The problem I find (and borne out by the episode with the bike cop) is that my version of hard acceleration is way beyond most (non-PH) people's comprehension and my version of fairly gentle acceleration would still be classed as extremely rapid for most of them (even on base boost [about 300bhp], I can do 0-60 in about 5.5 and 0-100 in about 12)
There is an answer to all of these issues though - buy a decent sports bike. The acceleration is other-worldly and overtaking is a complete doddle AND rarely takes anyone by surprise.
If overtaking causes one person to take avoiding action, it is deemed unsafe. That I can understand. However, if exactly the same overtake is made in another dimension, but has a different overtakee or oncomer who does not take avoiding action then it is deemed safe?
On the A5 Shrewsbury to Oswestrty or Oswestry to Wrexham road it is wide enough for several cars side by side and is populated with trucks. It is entirely normal for cars to be overtaking into on coming traffic. Some cars move over to the left when being overtaken to aid the space and other facing oncmoing overtakers also move over to create more space. They dont need to, as the road is so wide, hoever in taking extra avoiding acion they make the overtake safer.
To not overtake would upset the flow of traffic as so many people do it. I expect the Advanced drivers to say that one shouldnt overtake but thats not what I witness.
On the A5 Shrewsbury to Oswestrty or Oswestry to Wrexham road it is wide enough for several cars side by side and is populated with trucks. It is entirely normal for cars to be overtaking into on coming traffic. Some cars move over to the left when being overtaken to aid the space and other facing oncmoing overtakers also move over to create more space. They dont need to, as the road is so wide, hoever in taking extra avoiding acion they make the overtake safer.
To not overtake would upset the flow of traffic as so many people do it. I expect the Advanced drivers to say that one shouldnt overtake but thats not what I witness.
Crippo said:
If overtaking causes one person to take avoiding action, it is deemed unsafe. That I can understand. However, if exactly the same overtake is made in another dimension, but has a different overtakee or oncomer who does not take avoiding action then it is deemed safe?
In the law, the decision on the standard of your driving is made by 75 year old Doris, driving her Honda Jazz, when she makes a statement to the police. It's all about perception. Remember that next time you go for an overtake.davepoth said:
Crippo said:
If overtaking causes one person to take avoiding action, it is deemed unsafe. That I can understand. However, if exactly the same overtake is made in another dimension, but has a different overtakee or oncomer who does not take avoiding action then it is deemed safe?
In the law, the decision on the standard of your driving is made by 75 year old Doris, driving her Honda Jazz, when she makes a statement to the police. It's all about perception. Remember that next time you go for an overtake.standardman said:
"I made one today that was entirely safe"
Sorry but there is no overtaking that is entirely safe. Especially give the fact that you are potentially in a very fast car, someone else in the queue may get exactly the same idea.
Sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever, no such thing as an entirely safe overtake? Single vehicle overtakes are perfectly safe. Overtaking the "drive at 45" congo line is usually perfectly safe as the last thing on their mind is going out for an overtake, they are the reason that overtaking is becoming "anti-social" As long as you don't go through at warp speed there is no reason you can't dispatch 3 or 4 with ease with a contingency in place if one of them actually wakes up...Sorry but there is no overtaking that is entirely safe. Especially give the fact that you are potentially in a very fast car, someone else in the queue may get exactly the same idea.
Gary
I overtook an old man in a Skoda Fabia the other day in as safe a way as reasonably possible, in a place where I've done the same thing to wider/faster vehicles many, many times before.
His reaction was to stand on the brakes and swerve into a farm entrance/layby as soon as I commenced the manouevre. I caught it on dashcam and have watched back - as soon as I start moving over he just flings his car to the left and brakes hard, while still in view.
Bizarre.
His reaction was to stand on the brakes and swerve into a farm entrance/layby as soon as I commenced the manouevre. I caught it on dashcam and have watched back - as soon as I start moving over he just flings his car to the left and brakes hard, while still in view.
Bizarre.
All I am saying is any over taking involves additional risk, a driver swerving, being a t
t etc.
I recall a thread where the guys M3 had gone into Limp mode mid overtake.
I have a 2.8 Capri , serviced it with a new Rotor arm etc. Mid overtake it hit the Rev Limiter 400 rpm early, cough , splutter ,splutter. A "A safe overtake suddenly became more marginal.
What if someone comes along doing a 100 in the opposite direction as soon as you start ? Its amazing how much distance such a car can take.
Additional risk.
t etc.I recall a thread where the guys M3 had gone into Limp mode mid overtake.
I have a 2.8 Capri , serviced it with a new Rotor arm etc. Mid overtake it hit the Rev Limiter 400 rpm early, cough , splutter ,splutter. A "A safe overtake suddenly became more marginal.
What if someone comes along doing a 100 in the opposite direction as soon as you start ? Its amazing how much distance such a car can take.
Additional risk.
Sometimes when I've had a loan, or temporary, car that is pretty ordinary, overtakes that would normally 'be on', I wouldn't dream of doing - and that's with say, 150 bhp motors. I overtake all the time, but unless there's a substantial power/acceleration/speed difference, or a very clear straight road, with average cars I feel there's not enough margin, and certainly no means of getting it done quickly... and that's at relatively low speeds, too. WIth that in mind, I can sort of understand why you get a queue behind slow cars doing 35 in NSLs... the 'average' cars following just feel they don't have the grunt to overtake quickly, and therefore safely, with absolutely minimal time on the wrong side of the road...
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