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silvagod

663 posts

46 months

[news] 
Monday 9th April 2012 quote quote all
davepoth said:
Crippo said:
If overtaking causes one person to take avoiding action, it is deemed unsafe. That I can understand. However, if exactly the same overtake is made in another dimension, but has a different overtakee or oncomer who does not take avoiding action then it is deemed safe?
In the law, the decision on the standard of your driving is made by 75 year old Doris, driving her Honda Jazz, when she makes a statement to the police. It's all about perception. Remember that next time you go for an overtake.
Treat all those you overtake as Doris and you will be fine....hopefully!

standardman

361 posts

54 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
"I made one today that was entirely safe"

Sorry but there is no overtaking that is entirely safe. Especially give the fact that you are potentially in a very fast car, someone else in the queue may get exactly the same idea.

jaf01uk

1,746 posts

82 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
standardman said:
"I made one today that was entirely safe"

Sorry but there is no overtaking that is entirely safe. Especially give the fact that you are potentially in a very fast car, someone else in the queue may get exactly the same idea.
Sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever, no such thing as an entirely safe overtake? Single vehicle overtakes are perfectly safe. Overtaking the "drive at 45" congo line is usually perfectly safe as the last thing on their mind is going out for an overtake, they are the reason that overtaking is becoming "anti-social" As long as you don't go through at warp speed there is no reason you can't dispatch 3 or 4 with ease with a contingency in place if one of them actually wakes up...
Gary

Johnnytheboy

10,449 posts

72 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
I overtook an old man in a Skoda Fabia the other day in as safe a way as reasonably possible, in a place where I've done the same thing to wider/faster vehicles many, many times before.

His reaction was to stand on the brakes and swerve into a farm entrance/layby as soon as I commenced the manouevre. I caught it on dashcam and have watched back - as soon as I start moving over he just flings his car to the left and brakes hard, while still in view.

Bizarre.

standardman

361 posts

54 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
All I am saying is any over taking involves additional risk, a driver swerving, being a tt etc.

I recall a thread where the guys M3 had gone into Limp mode mid overtake.

I have a 2.8 Capri , serviced it with a new Rotor arm etc. Mid overtake it hit the Rev Limiter 400 rpm early, cough , splutter ,splutter. A "A safe overtake suddenly became more marginal.

What if someone comes along doing a 100 in the opposite direction as soon as you start ? Its amazing how much distance such a car can take.

Additional risk.
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robbyd

351 posts

61 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
Sometimes when I've had a loan, or temporary, car that is pretty ordinary, overtakes that would normally 'be on', I wouldn't dream of doing - and that's with say, 150 bhp motors. I overtake all the time, but unless there's a substantial power/acceleration/speed difference, or a very clear straight road, with average cars I feel there's not enough margin, and certainly no means of getting it done quickly... and that's at relatively low speeds, too. WIth that in mind, I can sort of understand why you get a queue behind slow cars doing 35 in NSLs... the 'average' cars following just feel they don't have the grunt to overtake quickly, and therefore safely, with absolutely minimal time on the wrong side of the road...

DocSteve

322 posts

108 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
standardman said:
All I am saying is any over taking involves additional risk, a driver swerving, being a tt etc.

I recall a thread where the guys M3 had gone into Limp mode mid overtake.

I have a 2.8 Capri , serviced it with a new Rotor arm etc. Mid overtake it hit the Rev Limiter 400 rpm early, cough , splutter ,splutter. A "A safe overtake suddenly became more marginal.

What if someone comes along doing a 100 in the opposite direction as soon as you start ? Its amazing how much distance such a car can take.

Additional risk.
No driving is entirely without risk, all you can do is try and reduce the risk to a minimum whilst still making progress and enjoying the drive. Overtaking, when conducted properly, is no different to any other sort of driving. Not overtaking when it is safe and reasonable to do so can result in a queue of traffic, unnecessary obstruction and lead to a more dangerous situation.

standardman

361 posts

54 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
"making progress"

Can someone tell me what that actually means ? I see it mentioned time and time again and the conclusion I have come is it means one of the following.

1. Exceeding the speed limit
2. Driving like a tt
3. Tail gating anyone not exceeding the speed limit.

otolith

26,067 posts

90 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
It means "not pootling about like a dithering old codger".

DocSteve

322 posts

108 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
standardman said:
"making progress"

Can someone tell me what that actually means ? I see it mentioned time and time again and the conclusion I have come is it means one of the following.

1. Exceeding the speed limit
2. Driving like a tt
3. Tail gating anyone not exceeding the speed limit.
It is about achieving a decent average speed and reducing overall journey time, competently and without causing inconvenience, danger or alarm to others. It certainly should not include 2, or 3 above. Whether it necessarily involves (1) could be debated.

Tiggsy

8,189 posts

138 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
standardman said:
"making progress"

Can someone tell me what that actually means ? I see it mentioned time and time again and the conclusion I have come is it means one of the following.

1. Exceeding the speed limit
2. Driving like a tt
3. Tail gating anyone not exceeding the speed limit.
Thats pretty much it a nutshell. It probably has some slightly less tty original meaning but has become an excuse for people to seperate themselves from "dithery old folk" and excuse their driving.

If you saw a pedestrian "making progress" walking through town, you'd assume he was a dick or very late for a bus

F i F

23,794 posts

137 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
As already covered, the original meaning is "making best possible safe and legal progress" in a journey.
For example, not being content to sit behind the 40mph club, but actively looking for a safe and legal overtake without causing anyone to alter their speed and direction, or cause any alarm as to your driving.

For some time now, certain people have been using it as a pseudonym for speeds above permitted limit. These days I have as little respect for people using this phrase, with a few notable exceptions, as for people who are stupid enough to use the word leptons.

MC Bodge

6,179 posts

61 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
standardman said:
"making progress"

Can someone tell me what that actually means ?
Driving to the conditions, with good observations to allow early identification of both potential hazards and law enforcement?


Nigel_O

396 posts

105 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
On the subject of a reluctance to overtake, here's a quick story from my commute this morning.

Leaving my home town, there's a bypass and one stretch of it is dead straight for well over half a mile, perfectly sighted with no junctions and a 50mph limit - a perfect overtake spot.

On my way out, nearing the end of the straight, I was at the tail end of a line of cars doing about 40mph. Coming towards me was a heavily-laden tractor and trailer, with a queue of cars behind it, doing less than 30. I checked my mirrors - nothing behind me, so I moved left in my lane to allow the first car behind the tractor to pull out a fraction earlier.

As I passed the tractor, I glanced in the mirrors again - still nothing behind me, but the first car behind the tractor didn't bother to overtake, so the second one didn't bother and in the end, the entire queue of traffic stayed behind the tractor for the entire length of the straight.

Although the first car in the queue was a Pug107, I reckon it still has enough power to get past a tractor, especially when there is nothing coming for at least half a mile. The fact that the driver chose to stay behind the tractor is simply poor driving, or a desperate lack of confidence.

Back on topic, because I have a quick car, I would easily have overtaken the entire queue from the back, but I imagine out of the dozen or so cars in the queue, many would have branded me as a nutter, simply for not having the patience to sit in a sub-30mph line of traffic.

Sad state of affairs that driving is now of such a low standard...

MC Bodge

6,179 posts

61 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
Nigel_O said:
Sad state of affairs that driving is now of such a low standard...
Hasn't it always been similar, but the roads are now much busier, there are more dual-carriageways and fewer NSL country roads so that a lot of people don't drive often on 'fast' country roads.

Nigel_O

396 posts

105 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
True - I guess 30 year ago (when I was first driving and mostly biking) the roads were sufficiently clear (and under-policed) that it was fairly easy to make decent progress.

Nowadays, all it takes is one myopic octegenarian mono-speeder to leave A-road havoc in their wake for many miles.

Whatever happened to the Highway Code instruction of "if you don't want to overtake, leave room so that others can"?

standardman

361 posts

54 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
"Although the first car in the queue was a Pug107, I reckon it still has enough power to get past a tractor, especially when there is nothing coming for at least half a mile. The fact that the driver chose to stay behind the tractor is simply poor driving, or a desperate lack of confidence."

Problem is with overtaking Tractors they have a nasty habit of turning into entrances IE Fields that you cannot sometimes see, combined with the fact that rarely do they go far.

There are certain roads I know if I don't pass a car its the last decent opportunity for 10 miles. How many times though have we overtaken a car with possibly less margin than we would like only for it to turn off.

Nigel_O

396 posts

105 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
I see your point, but in this case, the road is SO straight and SO clear that even a milkfloat could have performed a safe overtake

Google street view for the section of road in question

Imagine how it would look without the blue 3-series Touring coming the other way - the end of the straight is JUST visible at the vanishing point of the Google image. How anyone wouldn't overtake a tractor down there is beyond me - there are no turnings of any kind, even for fields.

DocSteve

322 posts

108 months

[news] 
Friday 13th April 2012 quote quote all
standardman said:
" How many times though have we overtaken a car with possibly less margin than we would like only for it to turn off.
How many times has one failed to anticipate and conduct an overtake when it would have been safe to do so, only to be stuck without a safe opportunity to overtake for 10 miles? I suspect this happens to a lot of motorists who later on, out of frustration, perform a risky manoeuvre.

Looking out for side turnings and gaining co-operation from the overtakee(s), be they tractors or otherwise, is part of the skill. I am not professing to be perfect at this - far from it, but it is something worth practicing and receiving expert driver training on to improve safety, progression in traffic and reduce unnecessary obstruction. Overtaking should not be viewed as this "highly dangerous" activity only performed by boy racers and maniacs, rather an important skill. In my opinion!

alexwagner

56 posts

45 months

[news] 
Sunday 15th April 2012 quote quote all
Interesting thread.

Just to make sure I understand the majority opinion here:

I happen to drive a Porsche 996 Turbo S. When overtaking with oncoming traffic, I should only take opportunities that I could perfectly safely have taken in a Fiesta 1.1? That way the oncomer is confortable and doesn't feel compelled to dab his brakes. Right?



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