Am I crap?

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creampuff

Original Poster:

6,511 posts

142 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
My wife thinks my driving is crap. The main reasons being:

- Too fast
- Travel too close to vehicle in front on motorways

I do like to give it the beans in NSL but I keep to 30, 40, 50 limits. I keep a 2 second gap or even more on motorways EXCEPT if there are vehicles in Lane 3 which I feel don't need to be in Lane 3, then I reduce the gap to around 1.5 seconds or even 1 second to let them know I am there >IF< I can see past them to the traffic ahead.

On NSL single carriageways, I drive the police roadcraft system and look for the vanishing point and 'be able to stop on my side of the road in the distance I can see to be clear' with an additional reduced speed around bends for the benefit of passenger comfort wink

My wife drives a different system which can be described as "leave a good gap and don't drive near anyone driving erratically"

I don't mind overtaking on single carriageways, my wife rarely does. If I'm overtaking in NSL, I use the acceleration I deem appropriate with a terminal speed which isn't really related at all to the speed limit....

So far, neither of us have been involved in any collisions, except on the recieving end of slow speed rearenders.

So.... is my driving crap or is it just different driving styles?

7db

6,058 posts

229 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
creampuff said:
EXCEPT if there are vehicles in Lane 3 which I feel don't need to be in Lane 3, then I reduce the gap to around 1.5 seconds or even 1 second to let them know I am there >IF< I can see past them to the traffic ahead.
In my book it seems to say that a horn signal or headlamp flash is the correct signal to alert other road users to your presence. Not driving up their chuff.

CommanderJameson

22,096 posts

225 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
creampuff said:
I keep a 2 second gap or even more on motorways EXCEPT if there are vehicles in Lane 3 which I feel don't need to be in Lane 3, then I reduce the gap to around 1.5 seconds or even 1 second to let them know I am there >IF< I can see past them to the traffic ahead.
Speaking as someone who does a reasonable number of motorway miles: please don't do this.

If they're really slow (i.e. not passing the traffic to their left, or even being passed by it), a headlamp flash to let them know you're there is fair enough.

Otherwise patience, grasshopper. It's not often, in normal motorway traffic (i.e. not at night or at the weekends, when all bets are off), one finds oneself in the outside lane behind a car that isn't itself passing traffic in the lane to its left.

If I'm in L3/4 doing a reasonable speed and passing stuff in L2/3, then you can be sure that I'm not going to nail it just to let you past, no matter how close you drive. I'll move left when I'm ready, not when you are. A little patience and I'll be out of your way quicker than you think, with both our stress levels un-raised.

Thankfully (and in contrast to what I read on PH a lot) I find that motorway driving during the week is a generally un-exciting and un-annoying activity, with the vast majority of drivers exercising sufficient courtesy to make it so.

Tartan Pixie

2,207 posts

146 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
7db said:
In my book it seems to say that a horn signal or headlamp flash is the correct signal to alert other road users to your presence. Not driving up their chuff.
IMO these can all be interpreted as aggressive maneuvers, especially driving too close.

Generally I would keep my distance and if it's daytime would simply switch my headlights on. No flashing, beeping or anything that could raise anyone's blood pressure. If they're persistent then I'd indicate right to signal my intention to pass but still maintain my distance, it's very rare that someone doesn't move out of my way at this point.

At night time if someone's hogging the outside lane then I actually increase my distance slightly but switch the front fogs on, it seems to work without giving the impression that I'm trying to run the other car off the road.

I've not been taught any of this so don't know how it fits with the advanced drivers, just seems a sensible way to drive.

creampuff

Original Poster:

6,511 posts

142 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
Mmm, I should clarify I do not just reduce the gap to 1 second if there is someone in Lane 3 going at a slower speed than I would like to. Also by 1 second gap, I mean a 1 second gap, ie about 6 car lengths @ 70mph not right up their chuff.

I keep a 2+ second gap for some time, then if nothing has happened then I may think about reducing the gap. Often in this situation the vehicle in Lane 3 will be an "overtake" of a train of cars in Lane 2, but with a +2mph (or similarly small) speed differential so that it takes a really, really long time. And often where there are gaps in Lane 2 where they could pull in, let people past, then pull back out into Lane 3 without changing speed. It's quite common that by this stage, a train of cars at various following distances would have built up behind me too.

7db

6,058 posts

229 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
creampuff said:
Often in this situation the vehicle in Lane 3 will be an "overtake" of a train of cars in Lane 2, but with a +2mph (or similarly small) speed differential so that it takes a really, really long time.
You're stuck in traffic. Deal with it. In a safe way.

Nigel_O

2,858 posts

218 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
a one-second gap means you'll probably have hit the car in front before you even manage to find your own brake pedal.

If you followed me at that distance, depending on my mood, you would find yourself gently brake-tested and if that didn't work, I would gradually slow you down until a one-second gap means you won't kill me when I have to brake hard.

Normally though, I would pull over and let you past, as any driver that tailgates at 6 car lengths is far better in front of me than behind

You mention that you apply Roadcraft to your other driving habits - why have you decided that Roadcraft was wrong in this instance?

creampuff

Original Poster:

6,511 posts

142 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
Nigel_O said:
You mention that you apply Roadcraft to your other driving habits - why have you decided that Roadcraft was wrong in this instance?
Because I've found from experience leaving a 2+ second gap means that they don't change to Lane 2 at all. As far as safety, for me to hit them, they would have to come to a dead stop almost instantaneously, which barring a meteorite suddenly creating a hole in the motorway in front of them, can't happen as I would only reduce the distance if I can see the traffic ahead and can see that there are no hazards. Strictly applying roadcraft, if I were to be able to come to a complete stop in the distance between me and the car in front at 70mph assuming it came to a dead stop instantaneously, I would need to leave around a 4-5 second gap including reaction time. There aren't many people who leave a 5 second gap at motorway speeds.

Basically the only circumstances where I do it are:
- I can see well ahead of the car in front
- I've been behind them for some time
- They could have moved to Lane 2 to let traffic pass and back to Lane 3 again without slowing down themselves and in addition they aren't really overtaking anyone

My impression (and it is just an impression since I can't tell what they are thinking) is that their thought process is along the lines of "I'm driving at 75mph, there are occasonal vehicles in Lane 2 doing 70mph, so I'll just cruise in Lane 3"

I find the idea of light flashing too aggressive. I like the idea of right indicator, I may try that.

The Black Flash

13,735 posts

197 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
It's not something I do, but you see the police use "getting up their chuff" as a (highly effective, it seems) technique for getting people out of L3 or L4. I presume it's a recognised technique, rather than just inpatience.

Nigel_O

2,858 posts

218 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
If you were worried about a car stopping dead (which I agree can't happen) then you would need ten seconds or more

With a one second gap, by the time you've realised the car in front is braking hard, you WILL have used almost all of your one second just getting your foot on the brake pedal (assuming you're alert - if you're not, you'll have hit the car before your foot reaches the pedal). By this time, the car in front is now doing a good few mph less than you, so you WILL hit it.

Just because you can see ahead of the car in front does not stop them from over-reacting to something and really jumping on the brakes - again, you'll be into the back of them before you've slowed.

FoundOnRoadside

436 posts

143 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
creampuff said:
2+ second gap . As far as safety, for me to hit them, they would have to come to a dead stop almost instantaneously,
You're wrong, by the way. You'd be in to the back of them before you'd even seen the brake-lights come on.

7db

6,058 posts

229 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
creampuff said:
- They could have moved to Lane 2 to let traffic pass and back to Lane 3 again without slowing down themselves and in addition they aren't really overtaking anyone
Why haven't you passed them on the nearside?
- you say that there is plenty of room to tuck in an pass, which is the same as the space required to pass on the nearside
- you don't seem to be concerned about the legality of your actions

Snowboy

8,028 posts

150 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
All sounds good except for your motorway thing.

If you think 2 seconds is safe, why drive unsafely because someone is driving slower than you want to.
You seem to be just making a bad situation worse.

Give them 10 seconds to realise that you are there.
If that doesn’t work than a small flash, and if they pull in and you pass then perhaps a wave of thanks.
The wave isn’t technically necessary, but it shows the flash was a polite request rather than an angry demand.

As someone else said.
If the road is clear enough to be frustrated at someone in the outer lane then a careful undertake could be the way to go.

creampuff

Original Poster:

6,511 posts

142 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
7db said:
Why haven't you passed them on the nearside?
- you say that there is plenty of room to tuck in an pass, which is the same as the space required to pass on the nearside
- you don't seem to be concerned about the legality of your actions
I don't like passing on the left:
- It's not legal
- It requires a greater distance of clear road (think about why, it is not the same amount of space)
- It's less safe and it's less predictable

Nigel_O

2,858 posts

218 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
An undertake to the left IS illegal, but I think you'll find that tailgating at the NSL is almost as likely to get you tugged.

Firstly, lets assume that you're only driving at dead-on the 70mph - one second is 88 feet.

If the car in front jumps on the brakes hard (to avoid something you haven't seen), then at least half of your 88 feet will be gone by the time you get your foot on the pedal - this assumes you were ready for it and were super-alert.

By the time your foot reaches the pedal, the car in front has already been braking for at least half a second, probably longer. In a modern car, he'll probably have shed 10-15mph, which means that your 44-foot, half second gap is already disappearing at 22 feet per second. In other words, unless your car is substantially better at braking than his, you WILL hit him in two seconds.

All of the above assumes you are poised, ready to hit the brakes and that you can brake at least as hard as he can.

At 80mph, you'll lose another 12 feet per second off the braking distanec when he brakes first, meaning you'll hit him in around 1.5 seconds.

If you're not super-alert, you will hit him before you reach the brake pedal.

Whereabouts in the country are you and what car do you drive?


pingu393

7,719 posts

204 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
Creampuff, how fast are your reactions? Try the ruler test. Vertical ruler dropped between your fingers. How many cms does it drop before you catch it?

0.3s to mentally acknowledge car in front is slowing
0.5s to move foot to brake
not time much left to judge appropiate braking pressure
probably assume emergency stop required
possibly lock wheels
over brake and increase distance to 3s
accelerate to close gap back to 1s
fail to observe the wave effect on the following traffic

Any of this familiar?

7db

6,058 posts

229 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
creampuff said:
7db said:
Why haven't you passed them on the nearside?
- you say that there is plenty of room to tuck in an pass, which is the same as the space required to pass on the nearside
- you don't seem to be concerned about the legality of your actions
I don't like passing on the left:
- It's not legal
Neither is tailgating. Passing on the nearside has the advantage of not being dangerous.

creampuff said:
- It requires a greater distance of clear road (think about why, it is not the same amount of space)
If you haven't got space to pass on the nearside, then you are being totally unreasonable expecting someone to tuck into that gap to allow you to pass. Why should he check his progress for you? He has no idea how quickly you will pass: whether you will crawl pass and prevent him from completing his next pass.

creampuff said:
- It's less safe and it's less predictable
Compared with a safe L3 follow, I agree. Compared with trying to bully a road-user out of the way, I do not.

Edited by 7db on Monday 21st May 20:56

kaf

323 posts

146 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
Nigel_O said:
An undertake to the left IS illegal,
And the legislation for this..................?

Unsafe in many situations maybe, but illegal 'per se'- no, not unless in doing so you create a 'due care' situation.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
Nigel_O said:
Firstly, lets assume that you're only driving at dead-on the 70mph - one second is 88 feet.
102 feet 8 inches.

Nigel_O

2,858 posts

218 months

Monday 21st May 2012
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
102 feet 8 inches.
Yup - you're correct of course - humble apologies redface

Either way - 88 feet or 102 feet, the OP is going to end up running into the back of someone eventually, hence my request to know where he is and what he drives....

Basically, OP's wife is correct - he should listen to her