Login | Register
SearchMy Stuff
My ProfileMy PreferencesMy Mates RSS Feed
1
3
Reply to Topic
Author Discussion

7mike

2,484 posts

81 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd July 2012 quote quote all
R0G said:
7mike said:
Come to think of it, I rarely find the need to do this when driving LGV/PCV let alone cars. Try this test if in doubt; count how many times you have near misses with parked cars because the vehicle ahead didn't indicate. Anything more than zero and I'd suggest it's you and not the driver ahead who is the problem.
But we are referring to the DSA test and we all know that is different to real life driving
I suspect the op was refering to the cat B test Rog, fair enough regarding vocational tests.

Johnnytheboy

10,622 posts

74 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd July 2012 quote quote all
I was taught to indicate unless there is a turning that it looks like I could be indicating my intention to turn into.

7mike

2,484 posts

81 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd July 2012 quote quote all
robbyd said:
I'd say much use of 'indicating' is a courtesy thing. Sure, it's not necessary to indicate when crossing the centre line, but if someone's coming into 'my' space from the other direction I appreciate the signal. I signal when returning to lane from an overtake (albeit one flick left) - and appreciate the courtesy when others do it..
A possible problem with your first example; are they letting you know they are coming through or are they letting a vehicle behind them know they are going to go after you have passed?

My idea of courtesy when someone has passed on a multi-lane road is to leave a sensible gap before pulling back in, signal or no signal. Most signals on multi-lane roads are given after the manoeuvre has begun anyway so a bit superfluous really (but I generally give them anyway because I know not everyone shares my beliefs and values and I like to do my bit to make our roads a happier place hehe ).

Edited by 7mike on Monday 23 July 21:04

robbyd

352 posts

63 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd July 2012 quote quote all
Well, when I give the signal (as the one crossing the line); the car behind will see no brake lights, so I won't be waiting to go through, and the car approaching will see only one flick (if he/she is looking) and see from that that I'm coming through and not waiting either...

ian_uk1975

979 posts

90 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd July 2012 quote quote all
No (at least IMO). The only possible exception I can think of is if you have to sit behind a parked car to wait for traffic in the opposing lane to pass in situations where there's not enough room. In that situation, it would be worth indicating to make it clear to drivers approaching from behind you that you're not just parked-up. In that sense, you would indicate as if you were joining traffic from being parked yourself. I think indicating when passing parked cars (or bicycles on the move) is completely unnecessary and potentially confusing to other road users. The intention to pass the parked car or bicycle on the move should be plainly obvious to others making the signal to pass redundant, IMO.

Trouble is, so many drivers (if they bother to indicate at all) indicate whilst simultaneously executing the manuever (eg. a lane change or overtake). This makes the indicate completely pointless since the idea is to indicate the intention to move. Also see quite a bit of indicating too far in advance... driver approaching a junction and wants to turn left starts indicating far too early on the approach and passes 1 or more side streets whilst indicating left before reaching said junction. This is very misleading and far worse than not indicating at all!

Sorry, off soap box now smile
Advertisement

R0G

4,111 posts

43 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Some good points there Ian

Automatic indicating is one of the things that advanced driving tries to get drivers to refrain from doing


vonhosen

28,868 posts

105 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
R0G said:
Some good points there Ian

Automatic indicating is one of the things that advanced driving tries to get drivers to refrain from doing
DSA driving doesn't encourage automatic indicating.

R0G

4,111 posts

43 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
vonhosen said:
DSA driving doesn't encourage automatic indicating.
By the nature of the way that the DSA want the test done then indicating is certainly much more encouraged than advanced

DSA examiners seem to prefer a signal is used when totally unncessary so it reduces any incident where the candidate might forget to use it and I can see that is probably a safer way for a learner to behave

Learners tend to do many things by using a fixed system which helps them not to forget something
MSM is a fixed routine for learners

Distant

1,447 posts

81 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Before we get bogged down in thirty pages of the merits or otherwise of doing it the "advanced way" I shall answer the OP's question.

As a current Approved Driving Instructor, for cars (cat B) the definitive answer is: It depends.

Sorry!

If you can move out early enough then that in itself should be enough of a signal that you are going around the car and not through it.

If you can't move out early (for whatever reason) then a signal may be useful if it will assist but not confuse others ie if there is a junction on the right maybe not. If there is someone close behind possibly looking to overtake, maybe yes.

If you consistently signal unnecessarily, a fault may be marked as it could be misleading. ie. If you signal to pass every parked car on your journey, it's likely the driver behind will not anticipate correctly when you signal to actually turn right.

R0G

4,111 posts

43 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Distant said:
As a current Approved Driving Instructor, for cars (cat B) the definitive answer is: It depends.

If you can move out early enough then that in itself should be enough of a signal that you are going around the car and not through it.
Would you agree with me that most drivers especially learners like to stay close into the left until they almost reach the hazard rather than ease out early?

Distant

1,447 posts

81 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Thats not something I've particularly noticed Rog. Usually with experienced drivers they are too far out and I have to work to get them close enough to the kerb during normal driving!

R0G

4,111 posts

43 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Distant said:
Thats not something I've particularly noticed Rog. Usually with experienced drivers they are too far out and I have to work to get them close enough to the kerb during normal driving!
That is different to my observations

I find most drivers tend not to use the available safe road space

Mr Grayson

158 posts

63 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
So do you spend a lot of time instructing experienced drivers to pass the DSA test, Distant? I'm guessing drivers with a licence from another country? What interests me about that is that the implication is that the DSA want us to drive along in the gutter - is that the case? I have to admit it's been so long since I took the DSA test, I don't really recall any significant instruction on this point, perhaps in earlier times the requirements were less, shall we say, particular smile

To the OP, and others who've posted since, I believe the answer to the question must be "no", but I bow to properly qualified ADIs to correct that if wrong. I've been surprised by some of the responses, but mostly they chime with my own thinking which is:

- no unnecessary signals (certainly not for returning from overtakes on multi-lane roads, for instance, unless there's another good reason for a signal - sometimes to indicate to someone behind that their overtake on me will soon be possible) and that includes parked cars. There might be the odd exception, such as for instance a queue either side of a bottleneck caused by parked cars on both sides, to indicate an intention to take the next available slot.
- signals are to indicate an intention. When performed simultaneously with a manoeuvre, they're pointless. Often these signals are of very short duration also (as indicated by some posters), so even more pointless as most drivers allegedly need more than 3 flashes before they're likely to react. One flash may not even be seen, so indicating with a single flash is tantamount to observing a practice for the sake of it, without any intention to really benefit other road users, imho.

Edited by Mr Grayson on Tuesday 24th July 13:47

R0G

4,111 posts

43 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
I dont think the DSA wwant us to drive in the gutter but they tend not to encourage using all available safe road space and that is understandable especially for learners

The remit of the DSA is to provide a new driver with the skills to stay as safe as possible for as long as possible nad that for many translates into staying as close to the left as reasonably possible until they HAVE to move out
That then stays with most drivers after they pass the test


Distant

1,447 posts

81 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Mr Grayson said:
So do you spend a lot of time instructing experienced drivers to pass the DSA test, Distant? I'm guessing drivers with a licence from another country?
The DSA don't just conduct Learner Driver Tests you knowsmile

Mr Grayson said:
What interests me about that is that the implication is that the DSA want us to drive along in the gutter - is that the case? I have to admit it's been so long since I took the DSA test, I don't really recall any significant instruction on this point, perhaps in earlier times the requirements were less, shall we say, particular smile
They don't want you to drive in the gutter. They don't want you to drive in the middle of the road either (without reason). I find that many experienced drivers will use all of the lane, rather than staying in to the left like the DSA want.

R0G

4,111 posts

43 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Distant said:
I find that many experienced drivers will use all of the lane, rather than staying in to the left like the DSA want.
Many yes, the majority no

Distant

1,447 posts

81 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Just to be clear, I'm talking about normal driving position, not positioning for hazards.

Mr Grayson

158 posts

63 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Distant said:
Mr Grayson said:
So do you spend a lot of time instructing experienced drivers to pass the DSA test, Distant? I'm guessing drivers with a licence from another country?
The DSA don't just conduct Learner Driver Tests you knowsmile
Do go on ... does this mean you're an ADI examiner?


7mike

2,484 posts

81 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Mr Grayson said:
Distant said:
Mr Grayson said:
So do you spend a lot of time instructing experienced drivers to pass the DSA test, Distant? I'm guessing drivers with a licence from another country?
The DSA don't just conduct Learner Driver Tests you knowsmile
Do go on ... does this mean you're an ADI examiner?
B+E, C1, C, D1, D, D+E, C+E, ADI pt2. Taxi/private hire, extended retest. Lots of experienced drivers take DSA tests beyond Cat B. I suspect, looking at Distant's web site he may be refering to the first one.

Distant

1,447 posts

81 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
7mike said:
B+E, C1, C, D1, D, D+E, C+E, ADI pt2. Taxi/private hire, extended retest. Lots of experienced drivers take DSA tests beyond Cat B. I suspect, looking at Distant's web site he may be refering to the first one.
yes
1
3
Reply to Topic