Overtaking around pedestrian islands
Discussion
Thanks for taking the time to look up and clarifying - I was wondering if I was going to have to learn some new rules for a moment. I recalled No Entry was endorsable as well - seems Dyfed-Powys have a different view.
Good for you for enforcing that stuff when you see it. Scares the crap out of me as a pedestrian / oncomer.
Good for you for enforcing that stuff when you see it. Scares the crap out of me as a pedestrian / oncomer.
Edited by 7db on Sunday 2nd September 23:27
There's a blanket exemption in TSRGD for police (etc) purposes for the keep left which turns it into a giveway:-
"On an occasion where a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the requirement specified in paragraph (1) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for one of those purposes then, instead of that requirement, the requirement conveyed by the sign in question shall be that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond that sign in such a manner or at such a time as to be likely to endanger any person."
"On an occasion where a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the requirement specified in paragraph (1) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for one of those purposes then, instead of that requirement, the requirement conveyed by the sign in question shall be that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond that sign in such a manner or at such a time as to be likely to endanger any person."
Cool, but what about mere mortals?
E.G. can I pass on the right of a keep left island when there is:
- a car-sized hole in the road
- a broken down car
- a car dropping off a passenger
- a bus with a queue of 12 people waiting to board
on the "correct" side of, for example, a traffic island?
(if safe to do so, of course)
E.G. can I pass on the right of a keep left island when there is:
- a car-sized hole in the road
- a broken down car
- a car dropping off a passenger
- a bus with a queue of 12 people waiting to board
on the "correct" side of, for example, a traffic island?
(if safe to do so, of course)
No - there's no exemption written in law for those sorts of situations.
In particular the passenger pick-up/drop-off and bus loading 12 passengers s a temporary obstruction -- I would very much expect you to wait in the traffic.
For the massive car-shaped hole -- there should be a warning in place, a contraflow established and the sign would be covered. Same for the broken-down car - until a Police officer arrives and directs you can't just go offside.
Many will break the law and do this.
In particular the passenger pick-up/drop-off and bus loading 12 passengers s a temporary obstruction -- I would very much expect you to wait in the traffic.
For the massive car-shaped hole -- there should be a warning in place, a contraflow established and the sign would be covered. Same for the broken-down car - until a Police officer arrives and directs you can't just go offside.
Many will break the law and do this.
7db said:
For the massive car-shaped hole -- there should be a warning in place, a contraflow established and the sign would be covered.
Council response to meteors is one of their better performing areas with no tickets running over target time limits last year, I'm sure they'd be right on it. 
I should be really amazed that anyone would need to ask this question, but not after living in Plymouth for over forty years!
It is regarded as normal practice for drivers to use the outside lane of dual carraigeways because they will be turning right in about five miles or so - really!
Another peculiarity of Plymouth drivers is that they regard a traffic light turning to amber on their approach as meaning 'It's OK to carry on' even if they could have stopped easily, while when they change to red, it means 'I've started, so I'll continue.'
Even bus drivers play this trick - I once used the park and ride service from Plympton, and coubnted seven set of red traffic lights we breezed through on the way to the city centre.
Perhaps the OP should try reading the Highway Code . . .
It is regarded as normal practice for drivers to use the outside lane of dual carraigeways because they will be turning right in about five miles or so - really!
Another peculiarity of Plymouth drivers is that they regard a traffic light turning to amber on their approach as meaning 'It's OK to carry on' even if they could have stopped easily, while when they change to red, it means 'I've started, so I'll continue.'
Even bus drivers play this trick - I once used the park and ride service from Plympton, and coubnted seven set of red traffic lights we breezed through on the way to the city centre.
Perhaps the OP should try reading the Highway Code . . .
Promethius said:
I should be really amazed that anyone would need to ask this question, but not after living in Plymouth for over forty years!
It is regarded as normal practice for drivers to use the outside lane of dual carraigeways because they will be turning right in about five miles or so - really!
Another peculiarity of Plymouth drivers is that they regard a traffic light turning to amber on their approach as meaning 'It's OK to carry on' even if they could have stopped easily, while when they change to red, it means 'I've started, so I'll continue.'
Even bus drivers play this trick - I once used the park and ride service from Plympton, and coubnted seven set of red traffic lights we breezed through on the way to the city centre.
Perhaps the OP should try reading the Highway Code . . .
Not just Plymouth - Nottingham is just the same. Since they put Specs cameras on the ring road (40mph dual carriageway) it's perfectly normal to see morons sit in the outside lane regardless of whether they are turning right.It is regarded as normal practice for drivers to use the outside lane of dual carraigeways because they will be turning right in about five miles or so - really!
Another peculiarity of Plymouth drivers is that they regard a traffic light turning to amber on their approach as meaning 'It's OK to carry on' even if they could have stopped easily, while when they change to red, it means 'I've started, so I'll continue.'
Even bus drivers play this trick - I once used the park and ride service from Plympton, and coubnted seven set of red traffic lights we breezed through on the way to the city centre.
Perhaps the OP should try reading the Highway Code . . .
Oddly it's usually the ones doing 35mph...
NonSyncro said:
Need we remind ourselves of this idiot
That is exactly what I thought of. Going around the wrong side means you are not where people are expecting you to be, so you should only go the other side in extreme circumstances. A cyclist going a bit too slow is not one, as you should not be going as fast as the cyclist on the wrong side. Same as if you have to be on the wrong side near a side turning.Encountered this very situation yesterday. Dropped my Mrs off at work, happily pootling home, took a left (first exit) at a mini-roundabout, only to be faced with a complete f
kwit accelerating at me on the wrong side of the 'keep left' island, about 60 metres from the roundabout. The driver of a stbox little Peugot decided he couldn't be bothered to wait for the bus ahead to move off. Thing is, it appears that the island was carefully placed there to prevent this very type of behaviour (overtaking buses too close to the upcoming junction).
His reaction to my high beams was entirely predictable in terms of his hand gestures, and what made it worse was the fact that the two Transit vans behind him looked to be planning the same move, despite the fact that there are, and have been for weeks, a huge set of roadworks complete with temporary traffic lights just around the corner. Why the fking rush? To get into a huge queue 1 bus length further forward than you were? It's probably just as well that I wasn't in a hurry. Someone with a little less awareness, and/or accelerating a little more briskly in my place might have ended up in a head-on with the little stbag.
Overtaking on the WRONG side of separation islands? It's unsafe, illegal, and plain stupid. Just. Don't. fking. Do. It.
kwit accelerating at me on the wrong side of the 'keep left' island, about 60 metres from the roundabout. The driver of a stbox little Peugot decided he couldn't be bothered to wait for the bus ahead to move off. Thing is, it appears that the island was carefully placed there to prevent this very type of behaviour (overtaking buses too close to the upcoming junction).His reaction to my high beams was entirely predictable in terms of his hand gestures, and what made it worse was the fact that the two Transit vans behind him looked to be planning the same move, despite the fact that there are, and have been for weeks, a huge set of roadworks complete with temporary traffic lights just around the corner. Why the f
king rush? To get into a huge queue 1 bus length further forward than you were? It's probably just as well that I wasn't in a hurry. Someone with a little less awareness, and/or accelerating a little more briskly in my place might have ended up in a head-on with the little stbag.Overtaking on the WRONG side of separation islands? It's unsafe, illegal, and plain stupid. Just. Don't. f
king. Do. It. Munter said:
You see the blue arrow on the illuminated bollard. That's telling you the answer. 
this the long answer is yes when you've passed a response course and are driving for work purposes and have a reason to claim the exemption - still run the risk of it being considered DWDCA , Careless or Dangerous if there is the slightest hint of you causing a collision ...
Funnily enough I was on a double-decker bus going across Southwark Bridge today that went wrong side of an island! Driver gave a good space to a cyclist before the island (nice), which put him far right, and with a large vehicle such as a bus it would have been a big wiggle to get back left etc etc so he stayed out to the right to pass island and made it easy for everyone. Obviously nothing coming the other way. Not something I'd do in a car - but there and then it made perfect sense....
WeirdNeville said:
I am indeed a copper, but I investigate real crime not traffic matters!
I do recall giving 3 points on several occasions for this offence by way of PND some years ago (like 7+ years ago), and perhaps the offences have been revised by now because I checked this morning and this does NOT appear on the current list of endorsable offences.
Contavening a 'no entry' sign is still 3 points however.
I'd still stick people on for it, it's bloody dangerous as those islands protect pedestrians and junctions ,and people don't expect someone to be coming by on the 'other' side of them.
Whilst I agree it can be bloody dangerous, there are times when its not. As a motorcyclist filtering past stationary trafic - in a manner approaved by my IAM instructor, you end up sitting in front of the island for minutes waiting for a car to leave room to go between it and the island. Or you can ride around the island, risking points etcs, but when the vision is clear and there no one around to affect - it can be done with no risk to anybody. I do recall giving 3 points on several occasions for this offence by way of PND some years ago (like 7+ years ago), and perhaps the offences have been revised by now because I checked this morning and this does NOT appear on the current list of endorsable offences.
Contavening a 'no entry' sign is still 3 points however.
I'd still stick people on for it, it's bloody dangerous as those islands protect pedestrians and junctions ,and people don't expect someone to be coming by on the 'other' side of them.
balls-out said:
Whilst I agree it can be bloody dangerous, there are times when its not. As a motorcyclist filtering past stationary trafic - in a manner approaved by my IAM instructor, you end up sitting in front of the island for minutes waiting for a car to leave room to go between it and the island. Or you can ride around the island, risking points etcs, but when the vision is clear and there no one around to affect - it can be done with no risk to anybody.
Whilst I can see your reasoning etc, the fact that the road is clear applies to cars as well, why is it anymore frustrating to a motorcyclist ?Nigel Worc's said:
Whilst I can see your reasoning etc, the fact that the road is clear applies to cars as well, why is it anymore frustrating to a motorcyclist ?
well firstly its well know fact that as a motorcylist I have a god given right to overtake and filter where I like Its a fair point - although I suspect that there are fewer occasions when car will want to do this. I definately see occasions where passing a keep left on the right can be safe.
balls-out said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Whilst I can see your reasoning etc, the fact that the road is clear applies to cars as well, why is it anymore frustrating to a motorcyclist ?
well firstly its well know fact that as a motorcylist I have a god given right to overtake and filter where I like Its a fair point - although I suspect that there are fewer occasions when car will want to do this. I definately see occasions where passing a keep left on the right can be safe.
I doubt if most of them actually know the offence they are commiting.
I cannot bring myself to do it, although I don't have the same problem with speed limits !
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff