Short Slip Roads and Safety Tips
Discussion
Blakewater said:
On this sliproad I'll be looking well down the dual carriageway as I approach the junction and I'm still at a right angle with the dual carriageway and have the best view of it. I may even be inclined to stop at this point if I'm faced with a lot of oncoming traffic. Why wait at a point where I have to twist my neck round to get a poor view when I can wait where I can easily get a good view? When I've identified a gap I can merge into it using the little bit of sliproad I have to build up speed. I'll still be ready to stop if I find the traffic on the dual carriageway has changed speed or I've misjudged and the gap has closed. You need to stay calm and use your common sense to weigh up a situation. Don't worry if the guy behind you is cursing and swearing at you for hesitating. Just because other drivers seem to think you should charge through regardless of anything it doesn't mean they're right and you're wrong, you have the sense to consider and react to things they don't so don't feel pressured by them.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly word for word. Great advice for the OP.Distant said:
Blakewater said:
On this sliproad I'll be looking well down the dual carriageway as I approach the junction and I'm still at a right angle with the dual carriageway and have the best view of it. I may even be inclined to stop at this point if I'm faced with a lot of oncoming traffic. Why wait at a point where I have to twist my neck round to get a poor view when I can wait where I can easily get a good view? When I've identified a gap I can merge into it using the little bit of sliproad I have to build up speed. I'll still be ready to stop if I find the traffic on the dual carriageway has changed speed or I've misjudged and the gap has closed. You need to stay calm and use your common sense to weigh up a situation. Don't worry if the guy behind you is cursing and swearing at you for hesitating. Just because other drivers seem to think you should charge through regardless of anything it doesn't mean they're right and you're wrong, you have the sense to consider and react to things they don't so don't feel pressured by them.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly word for word. Great advice for the OP.It's not really a slip road - it's a turning onto a dual carriageway that happens to merge therefore alleviating the need to turn 90 degs into fast moving traffic.
To treat it as you would a normal slip road could potentially be suicidal.
I couldn't agree more with the above answer ..... stop, wait for a gap and then join.
Dr Jekyll said:
It's unnecessary signals that suggest to me that the driver isn't aware of what's going on around him. Or that he signals out of habit because they are too lazy to think about what they are doing.
On our works defensive driving courses it was interesting that the instructors had different opinions about this. Some say if there's no-one to see the signal then don't do it. Others felt you should always signal, as someone could suddenly appear and you'd then be scrabbling for the indicator.Deva Link said:
Dr Jekyll said:
It's unnecessary signals that suggest to me that the driver isn't aware of what's going on around him. Or that he signals out of habit because they are too lazy to think about what they are doing.
On our works defensive driving courses it was interesting that the instructors had different opinions about this. Some say if there's no-one to see the signal then don't do it. Others felt you should always signal, as someone could suddenly appear and you'd then be scrabbling for the indicator.Squiggs said:
Distant said:
Blakewater said:
On this sliproad I'll be looking well down the dual carriageway as I approach the junction and I'm still at a right angle with the dual carriageway and have the best view of it. I may even be inclined to stop at this point if I'm faced with a lot of oncoming traffic. Why wait at a point where I have to twist my neck round to get a poor view when I can wait where I can easily get a good view? When I've identified a gap I can merge into it using the little bit of sliproad I have to build up speed. I'll still be ready to stop if I find the traffic on the dual carriageway has changed speed or I've misjudged and the gap has closed. You need to stay calm and use your common sense to weigh up a situation. Don't worry if the guy behind you is cursing and swearing at you for hesitating. Just because other drivers seem to think you should charge through regardless of anything it doesn't mean they're right and you're wrong, you have the sense to consider and react to things they don't so don't feel pressured by them.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly word for word. Great advice for the OP.It's not really a slip road - it's a turning onto a dual carriageway that happens to merge therefore alleviating the need to turn 90 degs into fast moving traffic.
To treat it as you would a normal slip road could potentially be suicidal.
I couldn't agree more with the above answer ..... stop, wait for a gap and then join.
[quote]
I think the OP calling it a slip road has been misleading and a lot of responses have been made without looking at the link.
It's not really a slip road - it's a turning onto a dual carriageway that happens to merge therefore alleviating the need to turn 90 degs into fast moving traffic.
To treat it as you would a normal slip road could potentially be suicidal.
[/quote]
Part of the problem here is a general tendency to see all junctions of minor roads with dual carriageways as being proper slip roads. Plenty are not (the junction of the B4027 and A40 south of Oxford is a good example of one that is not: it is a 90 degree junction with appalling visibility, which it would be insane to approach without expecting to have to stop) - and the careful driver needs to approach each unfamiliar one on its own terms, without the preconception that it is a slip road.
I think the OP calling it a slip road has been misleading and a lot of responses have been made without looking at the link.
It's not really a slip road - it's a turning onto a dual carriageway that happens to merge therefore alleviating the need to turn 90 degs into fast moving traffic.
To treat it as you would a normal slip road could potentially be suicidal.
[/quote]
Part of the problem here is a general tendency to see all junctions of minor roads with dual carriageways as being proper slip roads. Plenty are not (the junction of the B4027 and A40 south of Oxford is a good example of one that is not: it is a 90 degree junction with appalling visibility, which it would be insane to approach without expecting to have to stop) - and the careful driver needs to approach each unfamiliar one on its own terms, without the preconception that it is a slip road.
Edited by EW109 on Friday 17th May 18:09
ohtari said:
First off, you're new to driving so give yourself a break, we all make mistakes.
Second, never slow down on a slip road, ever. If you have to use the hard shoulder then so be it, but merge with into the lane at their speed, always.
Two of Surreys finest Traffic Officers once explained at a driving lecture they were running that you should never ever stop on a slip road, always use a bit of hard shoulder to join safely.Second, never slow down on a slip road, ever. If you have to use the hard shoulder then so be it, but merge with into the lane at their speed, always.
(Of course if no hard shoulder you'd have to stop)
In 20 years I've never had to do it, but if faced with the situation I'd take their advice and argue about it afterwards. My view, if you stop at the end of a slip road there is a very very high chance that you'll be rear ended, given that most people don't look beyond the end of their bonnet, you are simply not going to be seen until too late.
Martin
mph999 said:
Two of Surreys finest Traffic Officers once explained at a driving lecture they were running that you should never ever stop on a slip road, always use a bit of hard shoulder to join safely.
(Of course if no hard shoulder you'd have to stop)
In 20 years I've never had to do it, but if faced with the situation I'd take their advice and argue about it afterwards. My view, if you stop at the end of a slip road there is a very very high chance that you'll be rear ended, given that most people don't look beyond the end of their bonnet, you are simply not going to be seen until too late.
Martin
Not looked at the OP's link have you ...... the junction he was asking about can't really be classed as slip road (Of course if no hard shoulder you'd have to stop)
In 20 years I've never had to do it, but if faced with the situation I'd take their advice and argue about it afterwards. My view, if you stop at the end of a slip road there is a very very high chance that you'll be rear ended, given that most people don't look beyond the end of their bonnet, you are simply not going to be seen until too late.
Martin
There seems to be a huge amount of people on the road who don't know how to merge. It's more to do with them not thinking ahead I expect, but I see it all the time.
I had one incident a couple of weeks ago, 40mph road, single carriageway, slip road from the left. The car moves down the road at 40mph, matching my speed almost exactly and it's obvious we're going to get to the same place at the same time unless one of us changes speed. He's not looking at me, so I decide the prudent thing to do is to back off a bit. If he continues at his speed he can pull in front of me with no problem at all, but he sees me late and decides to slow down, so now he's matching my speed again at 30mph, so I slow down a bit more expecting him to merge, and you've guessed it, he slows down. OK, so he's gonna let me past and slide in behind me I thought, so I speed up. So he speeds up. It ended up with both of us almost stopped near the end of the slip road and he's looking at me angrily like I'm the numpty when he's clearly not had his wits about him, driving down the slip road with poor observation just expecting to merge at 40mph. I'm not sure what else I could've done because the way he was driving down the slip road if I had not adjusted my speed there could easily have been a collision.
I had one incident a couple of weeks ago, 40mph road, single carriageway, slip road from the left. The car moves down the road at 40mph, matching my speed almost exactly and it's obvious we're going to get to the same place at the same time unless one of us changes speed. He's not looking at me, so I decide the prudent thing to do is to back off a bit. If he continues at his speed he can pull in front of me with no problem at all, but he sees me late and decides to slow down, so now he's matching my speed again at 30mph, so I slow down a bit more expecting him to merge, and you've guessed it, he slows down. OK, so he's gonna let me past and slide in behind me I thought, so I speed up. So he speeds up. It ended up with both of us almost stopped near the end of the slip road and he's looking at me angrily like I'm the numpty when he's clearly not had his wits about him, driving down the slip road with poor observation just expecting to merge at 40mph. I'm not sure what else I could've done because the way he was driving down the slip road if I had not adjusted my speed there could easily have been a collision.
mph999 said:
Two of Surreys finest Traffic Officers once explained at a driving lecture they were running that you should never ever stop on a slip road, always use a bit of hard shoulder to join safely.
(Of course if no hard shoulder you'd have to stop)
Martin
MPH 999,(Of course if no hard shoulder you'd have to stop)
Martin
What a complete and utter load of twaddle!! You would never have been given that advice from a Traffic Cop as he would be telling you to commit an offence by doing so. And, there are only few exemptions to driving on the hard shoulder, one of which isn't to assist you in joining the motorway because you have made a balls up of the join in the first place!
And the 'to avoid an accident' exemption doesn't count here as you have been the sole reason for being on the hard shoulder in the first place, bad planning and bad driving.
Why do I know that you wouldn't have been given this advice? Because I lectured in safe and advanced driving techniques, with a colleague, whilst serving on Traffic with the Surrey Police.
Best advice for the original poster? Good observation and merge with the traffic on the main carriageway when safe, indicating your intention as you approach and carry out the manouever.
But remember, you don't have the right of way, the traffic established on the main carriageway has the right of way! And if you cause the traffic to alter course, speed or direction, you are guilty of s3 RTA 1988, careless and inconsiderate driving. So be warned.
FlyingFin said:
What a complete and utter load of twaddle!!
What aspect is twaddle? The option of considering the hard shoulder, or the suggestion that a traffic cop might acknowledge that option? (I note that mph999 relayed the suggestion to never stop on a slip road - I think 'never' is too strong).As for the hard shoulder being an option, that's not twaddle. On that point I would stand by what I posted in the first page of the thread. And I also don't think it's inconceivable that a traffic cop might suggest that, having made a balls up of the join in the first place, the safest way out - albeit not legal - might be to use the hard shoulder.
FlyingFin said:
And, there are only few exemptions to driving on the hard shoulder, one of which isn't to assist you in joining the motorway because you have made a balls up of the join in the first place!
How would your advice on joining the carriageway differ for someone who - for whatever reason - finds himself stationary on the left here;
and here?
FlyingFin said:
MPH 999,
What a complete and utter load of twaddle!! You would never have been given that advice from a Traffic Cop as he would be telling you to commit an offence by doing so. And, there are only few exemptions to driving on the hard shoulder, one of which isn't to assist you in joining the motorway because you have made a balls up of the join in the first place!
And the 'to avoid an accident' exemption doesn't count here as you have been the sole reason for being on the hard shoulder in the first place, bad planning and bad driving.
Why do I know that you wouldn't have been given this advice? Because I lectured in safe and advanced driving techniques, with a colleague, whilst serving on Traffic with the Surrey Police.
Hmmm ...What a complete and utter load of twaddle!! You would never have been given that advice from a Traffic Cop as he would be telling you to commit an offence by doing so. And, there are only few exemptions to driving on the hard shoulder, one of which isn't to assist you in joining the motorway because you have made a balls up of the join in the first place!
And the 'to avoid an accident' exemption doesn't count here as you have been the sole reason for being on the hard shoulder in the first place, bad planning and bad driving.
Why do I know that you wouldn't have been given this advice? Because I lectured in safe and advanced driving techniques, with a colleague, whilst serving on Traffic with the Surrey Police.
Well, I can assure you for 100% certain, I was given that advice (I am sure my farther who was there also, will confirm.), I was a little surprised myself, but knowing the officers well, I knew that they were realistic in their approach to what can happen in the real world.
It was about 20 years ago I guess, and the lectures were held at the HQ in Guildford. I won't mention the officers names on here, though all three have now retired, though only 2 presented the lecture - although I can't remember which two. They were the 'Traffic Liaison Officers', so their roles were more educational than front line. Having just said that, I do now recall exactly who it was, as he was 'the more serious' of the three officers and I was not only slightly surprised at the advice, but more so considering who gave it.
I wlll say, that none were called Geoff, so it wasn't your good self.
Consider this fictional situation:
I am driving down a shortish sliproad, I have one car close behind me and multiple vehicles on lane 1 and 2. I plan to join in a safe gap between the vehicles in lane 1, which will be as I get towards the end of the sliproad.
Just before I join, my shoulder check shows a vehicle in lane two to be moving back to lane one, preventing me from joining. The car behind is too close to allow me to brake (at least without risking a collision) - so the hard shoulder is the only option.
What would you rather happen - a collision, or avoidance of a collision ?
As I mentioned, I've never had to do it, but I don't think my example above is too unrealistic, but then again, perhaps I forget that all traffic officers are gods gift to driving.
It would have perhaps have been polite to confirm with me that I really wasn't mistaken in my understanding of the officers explanation before accusing me of twaddle. If you like, I could lend you some steps so you can climb down off your horse.
I see ST2 was also given similar advice.
M
Edited by mph999 on Thursday 23 May 00:52
Edited by mph999 on Thursday 23 May 00:57
MPH999
Glad to see you recognise we are gods gift to driving... I mean it isn't every day we get recognition for all our efforts for the months of driver training we have to go through, from basic car to finally receiving our Class 1 Advanced or Advanced Instructors ticket!! (not to mention TPAC, VASCAR, CP and VIP, and all repeated if we decide to go on the solo motorcycles! Which I did.) And yes, we are experts in the eyes of the law as that's what we are there for, to enforce it, being the experts in our profession!
By the same token, I am not going to enter into a slanging match on how you should drive in your fictitious situations, because you will only argue and disagree, as you will no doubt see things see things in a different light to suit your view you have fixed in your head.
May I suggest your best course of action to get your answers would be to contact Chiswick IAM and ask their advice; that is, if you don't really know the answer already? Or you could adapt to their driving style:
"Advanced Driving is the ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly, using road and traffic conditions to make reasonable progress unobtrusively, with skill and responsibility. This skill requires a positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation and planning. This must be co-ordinated with good handling skills. The vehicle will always be in the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely in the distance that can be seen to be clear."
I am intrigued, which Traffic centre were the Officers from?
Glad to see you recognise we are gods gift to driving... I mean it isn't every day we get recognition for all our efforts for the months of driver training we have to go through, from basic car to finally receiving our Class 1 Advanced or Advanced Instructors ticket!! (not to mention TPAC, VASCAR, CP and VIP, and all repeated if we decide to go on the solo motorcycles! Which I did.) And yes, we are experts in the eyes of the law as that's what we are there for, to enforce it, being the experts in our profession!
By the same token, I am not going to enter into a slanging match on how you should drive in your fictitious situations, because you will only argue and disagree, as you will no doubt see things see things in a different light to suit your view you have fixed in your head.
May I suggest your best course of action to get your answers would be to contact Chiswick IAM and ask their advice; that is, if you don't really know the answer already? Or you could adapt to their driving style:
"Advanced Driving is the ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly, using road and traffic conditions to make reasonable progress unobtrusively, with skill and responsibility. This skill requires a positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation and planning. This must be co-ordinated with good handling skills. The vehicle will always be in the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely in the distance that can be seen to be clear."
I am intrigued, which Traffic centre were the Officers from?
Edited by FlyingFin on Thursday 23 May 17:11
Edited by FlyingFin on Thursday 23 May 17:27
Edited by FlyingFin on Tuesday 17th March 13:30
FlyingFin said:
MPH999
Glad to see you recognise we are gods gift to driving... I mean it isn't every day we get recognition for all our efforts for the months of driver training we have to go through, from basic car to finally receiving our Class 1 Advanced or Advanced Instructors ticket!! (not to mention TPAC, VASCAR, CP and VIP, and all repeated if we decide to go on the solo motorcycles! Which I did.) And yes, we are experts in the eyes of the law as that's what we are there for, to enforce it, being the experts in our profession!
By the same token, I am not going to enter into a slanging match on how you should drive in your fictitious situations, because you will only argue and disagree, as you will no doubt see things see things in a different light to suit your view you have fixed in your head.
May I suggest your best course of action to get your answers would be to contact Chiswick IAM and ask their advice; that is, if you don't really know the answer already? Or you could adapt to their driving style:
"Advanced Driving is the ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly, using road and traffic conditions to make reasonable progress unobtrusively, with skill and responsibility. This skill requires a positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation and planning. This must be co-ordinated with good handling skills. The vehicle will always be in the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely in the distance that can be seen to be clear."
And for your info, Geoff is a nick name given to me following the recent More Than Ad... We would like to thank Geoff and ....... etc. etc. They provided me with an insurance quote with the name Geoff repeated several times over the document, that not being my name, my mates thought it funny to call me Geoff instead of my real name.
I am intrigued, which Traffic centre were the Officers from?
The Officers were from Burpham - as mentioned all retired now. I admire the standard and am aware of the skill level necessary, having been fortunate enough, on a couple of occasions, to have been driven by a class 1. Glad to see you recognise we are gods gift to driving... I mean it isn't every day we get recognition for all our efforts for the months of driver training we have to go through, from basic car to finally receiving our Class 1 Advanced or Advanced Instructors ticket!! (not to mention TPAC, VASCAR, CP and VIP, and all repeated if we decide to go on the solo motorcycles! Which I did.) And yes, we are experts in the eyes of the law as that's what we are there for, to enforce it, being the experts in our profession!
By the same token, I am not going to enter into a slanging match on how you should drive in your fictitious situations, because you will only argue and disagree, as you will no doubt see things see things in a different light to suit your view you have fixed in your head.
May I suggest your best course of action to get your answers would be to contact Chiswick IAM and ask their advice; that is, if you don't really know the answer already? Or you could adapt to their driving style:
"Advanced Driving is the ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly, using road and traffic conditions to make reasonable progress unobtrusively, with skill and responsibility. This skill requires a positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation and planning. This must be co-ordinated with good handling skills. The vehicle will always be in the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely in the distance that can be seen to be clear."
And for your info, Geoff is a nick name given to me following the recent More Than Ad... We would like to thank Geoff and ....... etc. etc. They provided me with an insurance quote with the name Geoff repeated several times over the document, that not being my name, my mates thought it funny to call me Geoff instead of my real name.
I am intrigued, which Traffic centre were the Officers from?
Edited by FlyingFin on Thursday 23 May 17:11
Edited by FlyingFin on Thursday 23 May 17:27
My example was just to show that even with the best laid plans, things can go wrong.
I am aware of the description of Advanced Driving, being an IAM member since 17, and at various points RoSPA Gold, which has perhaps been a reason for me not getting into such a situation as I described.
Regards,
Martin
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