Short Slip Roads and Safety Tips

[Kingston1]

I'm 21, passed my driving test about a month ago and I'v also done pass plus.

I'm starting this topic because of a near miss I had on the A3 near Kingston going south, pulling out of a road onto the busy A road. The slip road was really short, and I sped up thinking I would be able to merge with the traffic whilst trying to merge with L1. Suddenly the car in L1 beeped and braked, while I swerved back into the slip road. The car then stopped, flashed it's lights and let me through. This all happened really fast and I am in no doubt that I was an inch away from a serious accident, I feel lucky that the car was able to stop as the traffic there goes at 50mph.

Here's a view of the slip road

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=google+maps+south...

I now know that I should've slowed right down and in that situation. (It was night time and quite busy) I definitely had had to stop and wait for as long as I had to for what I judged would be a safe gap to pull into Lane 1.

I now realise the lack of experience I have on the roads, and want to ask the experienced drivers what kinds of things I need to look out for which can cause serious collisions.

Thanks

[ohtari]

First off, you're new to driving so give yourself a break, we all make mistakes.

Second, never slow down on a slip road, ever. If you have to use the hard shoulder then so be it, but merge with into the lane at their speed, always.

I think what's happened is that you've been too focused on looking forwards, when you should have been looking in the mirror or turned around looking back towards the lane. It seems unnatural at first, but if the slip road is clear ahead of you, it's perfectly safe.

Remember, it's your job to filter into the traffic. If someone is nice and waves you in, then so be it, but don't be expecting them to.

I would suggest that you catch a few lifts with experienced friends/family. Watch how they deal with the situation. Now that you've been driving on your own for bit, you're more likely to notice the little things that we all do to make progress in the real world, outside of the instructed environment.

Drive safe

Edit*

I typed all that out before looking at the map, that's a give way junction. You're expected to stop unless (or until) you can see that the road is clear.

Edited by ohtari on Thursday 9th May 01:22

[defblade]

Sounds like the car in L1 may have been in your blind spot. It's amazing how big a car/van you can hide in there. It's a good idea to get used to doing an over-the-shoulder check when merging.

Having said that, that slip looks like a right sod with poor visibility and nowhere to go if there's no gap when you get there. Need to spproach at a speed that both lets you get up 50 quickly if there's a gap, or stop quickly if there's not (which it sounds like you did, so don't beat yourself up). A powerful vehicle is your best friend here


Better driving comes from asking yourself "how could I have done that better?" so you're already in the top tiny % of people who bother to think about their driving at all

[Kuroblack350]

ohtari said:

Second, never slow down on a slip road, ever. If you have to use the hard shoulder then so be it, but merge with into the lane at their speed, always.

Even a 'standard' motorway slipway is a give way isn't it? So in theory, if you need to stop - do so. I wouldn't advise carrying on down the hard shoulder as it's dubious legally, throws up loads of dust and rubbish and of course, cars in L1 won't expect you to be there.

OP, matching your speed is key, as is being in a flexible gear that allows you some power, constant mirror checks are a must, and feel free to add a biker style 'lifesaver' check over your shoulder just to be sure. With regard to your example, visibility is poor and dependant on conditions, my overriding impulse would be, as always, 'planning to stop, but looking to go' as the saying goes.

ohtari said:

I would suggest that you catch a few lifts with experienced friends/family. Watch how they deal with the situation. Now that you've been driving on your own for bit, you're more likely to notice the little things that we all do to make progress in the real world, outside of the instructed environment.

Agreed

[PaulMoor]

That junction is not a slip road, it is a normal junction and should be treated as such. The problem is you treated it as a slip road. Too many people do this and try and treat duel carage way junctions as slip roads. Only some are, and you do not have right of way on them like a motorway.

Unlike a Motorway you should not asume that someone will let you in. If there is no space to pull in then you have to stop.

[Tanguero]

You do NOT have right of way if you are on a motorway slip road. The traffic on the main carriageway has right of way.

Highway Code
259
Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

give priority to traffic already on the motorway
check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

[james_gt3rs]

People need to look at the maps link he posted... it's way to short to be called a slip road, unless you have a 911 Turbo you'd have to give way.

[MagicalTrevor]

PaulMoor said:

That junction is not a slip road, it is a normal junction and should be treated as such. The problem is you treated it as a slip road. Too many people do this and try and treat duel carage way junctions as slip roads. Only some are, and you do not have right of way on them like a motorway.

Unlike a Motorway you should not asume that someone will let you in. If there is no space to pull in then you have to stop.

I think you need to read the highway code!! A motorway sliproad IS a give way, if you can't merge then you need to be stopping. You have no right to join the motorway and the person in L1 does NOT need to be moving or slowing to let you in.

This scares me

[Tanguero]

No wonder the standard of driving on the roads is so st if the "Advanced Driving" forum of a site like Pistonheads contains advice to a new driver along the lines of;
"you have right of way on a slip-road when joining the motorway"
and "if you can't pull in to the traffic at the end of the slip-road then use the hard shoulder"

Both of which are wrong, illegal and dangerous!

[The Black Flash]

A lot of it is being able to judge the speed of approaching traffic and knowing whether you can match it given the available space. You will get better at this with time, and it's always best to err on the side of caution.

That is an angled give way, rather than a slip road, so I guess that was your mistake in this case.

On motorway slips, although the right of way still belongs to those on the main carriageway, they are generally long enough that you can match speed with the carriageway and have time to work your way into a gap when you get there. If space is limited, I generally prefer to back off into a gap behind something rather than accelerating in front, it keeps things fully under your control rather than relying on the other driver maintaining their speed / seeing you / concentrating / not being surprised by you blasting up the inside. Over the shoulder looks are very wise here.

All that said, there are some motorway slips which are so short that there's little choice apart from accelerate hard and hope, with the only real bail-out option being the hard shoulder. This one on the M6 is particularly bad, where you're unsighted for much of the approach, then have a very short straight to get up to speed (or decide to abort, which isn't great if stuff is steaming up behind you): https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Lancaster&hl=....

Finally, as others have said, trying to work out where you went wrong is the first step towards getting better

[The Black Flash]

Just realised that none of us were actually reading the OP properly. He knows what was wrong at that junction, what he was asking was this:

Kingston1 said:

I now realise the lack of experience I have on the roads, and want to ask the experienced drivers what kinds of things I need to look out for which can cause serious collisions.

Thanks

So, off the top of my head:

- Going faster than you can see - can you stop in the road you can see?
- Getting too close to the car in front - remember the "2 second rule". Prevelent everywhere, but particularly bad on motorways.
- Poor observation - look at what's happening ahead, not just the brake lights of the car in front. In traffic, I don't concentrate on the car in front, it's normally the car in front of the car in front of the car in front...

[Tanguero]

Add to that, always do a lifesaver check by looking over your shoulder before committing to the manoeuvre.

[SK425]

Tanguero said:

No wonder the standard of driving on the roads is so st if the "Advanced Driving" forum of a site like Pistonheads contains advice to a new driver along the lines of;
"you have right of way on a slip-road when joining the motorway"
and "if you can't pull in to the traffic at the end of the slip-road then use the hard shoulder"

Both of which are wrong, illegal and dangerous!

I think the hard shoulder advice is meant to be a bit more subtle than that - it's really, "don't forget the hard shoulder is there". It's an extreme option but then so is stopping on the slip road (unless there's a stationary queue obviously ) - extreme in the sense that it should be extremely rare to not be able to merge normally from the slip road. In that extremely rare event, if you've got a mindset that the boundary at the end of the slip road straight onto the hard shoulder is a brick wall then you might give yourself more problems than you need. Stopping on the slip road isn't going to be fun - rejoining from a standstill isn't going to be easy and you're going to be very vulnerable until you do - a great combination for pressuring you into making a poor decision.

It's no good waiting until the last minute to think about the hard shoulder as an emergency escape route - you need to know before then whether it's clear - but then you ought to know what's going on on the hard shoulder ahead anyway. And it's not about continuing on to the hard shoulder indefinitely because you haven't found the gap you're going to merge into yet - that's not OK.

But if you have identified the best available gap and it's ahead, or perhaps something changes and the gap you had identified isn't available any more and the next best gap is ahead, and in accelerating to get to it you might need slightly more distance than remains on the slip road, and you have already checked and you know that hard shoulder is clear, it is conceivable that that could be a better option than stopping on the slip road.

[Deva Link]

There isn't a hard shoulder in the example the OP shows anyway.

[BOF]

Couple of thoughts on joining sliproads - or motorways - or main roads where the entry is short...

If you can, don't be following a vehicle ahead of you...sit back if needed so you are entering the new road without having to worry about a car ahead braking.

Get your indicator on even before it can be seen from the road you are joining...so many things to look at and do...get this out of the way.

If you are joining a major road or Motorway by crossing over a bridge..have a look left at the road you are joining...any 'heavies' coming...good chance of space behind the heavy as the cars are moving out to pass him..try to time your run to slip in behind the heavy...again, don't be close behind another vehicle joining the same road.

I had a very nervous lady associate - used to stop on a bridge on the A12 and tell her to look at the traffic...space behind trucks...time your run...it helped her on a very short slip road - try it?

Main thing is you are asking questions - good habit!

BOF

[New POD]

SK425 said:

Tanguero said:

No wonder the standard of driving on the roads is so st if the "Advanced Driving" forum of a site like Pistonheads contains advice to a new driver along the lines of;
"you have right of way on a slip-road when joining the motorway"
and "if you can't pull in to the traffic at the end of the slip-road then use the hard shoulder"

Both of which are wrong, illegal and dangerous!

I think the hard shoulder advice is meant to be a bit more subtle than that - it's really, "don't forget the hard shoulder is there". It's an extreme option but then so is stopping on the slip road (unless there's a stationary queue obviously ) - extreme in the sense that it should be extremely rare to not be able to merge normally from the slip road. In that extremely rare event, if you've got a mindset that the boundary at the end of the slip road straight onto the hard shoulder is a brick wall then you might give yourself more problems than you need. Stopping on the slip road isn't going to be fun - rejoining from a standstill isn't going to be easy and you're going to be very vulnerable until you do - a great combination for pressuring you into making a poor decision.

It's no good waiting until the last minute to think about the hard shoulder as an emergency escape route - you need to know before then whether it's clear - but then you ought to know what's going on on the hard shoulder ahead anyway. And it's not about continuing on to the hard shoulder indefinitely because you haven't found the gap you're going to merge into yet - that's not OK.

But if you have identified the best available gap and it's ahead, or perhaps something changes and the gap you had identified isn't available any more and the next best gap is ahead, and in accelerating to get to it you might need slightly more distance than remains on the slip road, and you have already checked and you know that hard shoulder is clear, it is conceivable that that could be a better option than stopping on the slip road.

Motorway advice I'd give anyone:
Identify the gap you are going to "push into" as soon as you start along the slip road, but check out the hard shoulder, because if something goes wrong you need to know if using it is an option.

[Dr Jekyll]

BOF said:

Get your indicator on even before it can be seen from the road you are joining...so many things to look at and do...get this out of the way.

Must admit I rarely signal at all when entering from slip roads.

[robbyd]

I know this section of the A3 very well, and as has been said: this is a junction at an angle and not a slip road. There is an extremely short run-in from a 90 degree left bend (not shown), and at anytime other than 6.00am on a Sunday morning I would expect to be stopping and waiting before joining. Getting up to speed in anything but a very high powered car just ain't gonna happen either. Many more cars come off there than join, possibly for that reason. Very similar to the Wimbledon junction coming south after Robin Hood roundabout, although as many cars join the A3 there, most traffic in L1 anticipates and moves to L2 where it can.

Edited by robbyd on Thursday 9th May 18:34

[silverfoxcc]

I am like Dr Jekyll. The purpose of an indicator is to let people know your intention. As i am driving down a one way slip road and the only road i can get onto is the Mway/Dc then it is bloody logical that my intention is to join the motorway/DC otherwise WTF am i doing on it!!

Seriously, one thing that was taught to me at the RR chauffuers school was this

Ask yourself before commiting to any manoeuvre

Will my actions by doing this, make any other person alter their course,direction, or speed?

If it is yes to one of these, then don't do it.

Bloody good safety advice, and the more you drive the more automatic it becomes

[Deva Link]

silverfoxcc said:

Bloody good safety advice, and the more you drive the more automatic it becomes

On the other hand you really do not want to be stopped where there's every chance that someone could come around the bend onto the 'slip' road while looking over their shoulder, smacking you up the backside and punting you into the running lane.