What exactly is advanced driving.
Discussion
Glosphil said:
I am more interested in being an observer and assisting drivers to improve their driving skills (not just car control) than being a member of a club.
I attempted that, but to my frustration found that the negative 'club' elements were much stronger in that role than when an associate. At least in this configuration, you were required to embody the club, and in my case without really being told what that meant.Mr Trophy said:
MC Bodge said:
Stuff
Agreed!The part when he was looking to the left (we where on a hilly road and about 11 o'clock over in the distance a road would meet with ours) he could see nothing would pull out on us, so he pressed down on the accelerator, firmly!
I'm fully accepting the principle being advocated, but bearing in mind that even at 120 mph, looking one mile ahead means you're not going to get there for half a minute, and even if it's an oncomer travelling at the same speed you have 15 seconds before you meet, and you can prepare yourself quite well in that time.
The other thing of course is that within a timescale of 15 seconds, and particularly 30 seconds, the situation you have initially seen and assessed can have changed quite a bit by the time you get there. Another vehicle, an oncomer, for example, might have turned off into a side road and you might not meet them at all. Similarly the junction you've spotted in the distance, and seen to be clear at the time, might not be clear when you're arriving at it with a lot of mph on the clock.
I therefore wonder if the merits of long range observation are quite as important in all cases as is sometimes suggested.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
p1esk said:
I therefore wonder if the merits of long range observation are quite as important in all cases as is sometimes suggested.
I take your point, but I do think that it is all part of "awareness". You are less likely to be 'surprised' by things if you are the sort of person who notices things.
I look at "Advanced driving" as a "system" of car control. be it the ROSPA or IAM or POLICE driving style or whatever. If you drive creating space for yourself, others, and not mislead or cause others to have to brake/change direction to avoid you then you should if you are driving at the speed you can safely stop in that is clear you are doing things about right.
When I teach youngsters to drive (that's most of the customers i get) I suggest to them that if they can drive a passenger from A to B without them realising they have been on a journey, then you are near enough there. If you drive someone from A to B snapping their neck everytime you hit the "Go" pedal, or brake, or turn, or change gear then you are driving like an arse. Your friends will talk behind your back that your crap, and some may even refuse to be driven by you.
The driving test is a basic standard of driving, we all understand that. the more advanced tests some of us have done go a little further in developing skills taught at a basic level. If you have taken an "advanced test" you are less likely to have an accident than those that have not. If you have a "shunt" you have "failed" a test......and look how many we see/hear of everyday. Maybe insurance companies should insist that if you have an accidnet you should retake a test before they insure you?.....it would improve standards no end
How many folk do you know who have attended a "speed awareness" course, and nearly all of them improve their driving for at least a short time following it?.....everyone I have spoken to who has been caught speeding has said it opened their eyes into how poor their driving had been. being an ADI not many people like to admit they have been cuaght speeding or had an accident....don't know why, I maybe able to help them look at their driving a "different" way. But, as we all know "You only really learn to drive once you have passed your test!".....b
ks I say...you already know how to drive, all you gain once you have passed your test is experience
Driving is easy....driving safely is a load harder!
When I teach youngsters to drive (that's most of the customers i get) I suggest to them that if they can drive a passenger from A to B without them realising they have been on a journey, then you are near enough there. If you drive someone from A to B snapping their neck everytime you hit the "Go" pedal, or brake, or turn, or change gear then you are driving like an arse. Your friends will talk behind your back that your crap, and some may even refuse to be driven by you.
The driving test is a basic standard of driving, we all understand that. the more advanced tests some of us have done go a little further in developing skills taught at a basic level. If you have taken an "advanced test" you are less likely to have an accident than those that have not. If you have a "shunt" you have "failed" a test......and look how many we see/hear of everyday. Maybe insurance companies should insist that if you have an accidnet you should retake a test before they insure you?.....it would improve standards no end
How many folk do you know who have attended a "speed awareness" course, and nearly all of them improve their driving for at least a short time following it?.....everyone I have spoken to who has been caught speeding has said it opened their eyes into how poor their driving had been. being an ADI not many people like to admit they have been cuaght speeding or had an accident....don't know why, I maybe able to help them look at their driving a "different" way. But, as we all know "You only really learn to drive once you have passed your test!".....b
ks I say...you already know how to drive, all you gain once you have passed your test is experienceDriving is easy....driving safely is a load harder!
watchnut said:
How many folk do you know who have attended a "speed awareness" course, and nearly all of them improve their driving for at least a short time following it?.....everyone I have spoken to who has been caught speeding has said it opened their eyes into how poor their driving had been.
Really? I think you should try that again over on SP&L! 
I was determined to get some value out of my speed awareness course. But it was exceedingly poor. I was determined to be on my best behaviour. But the course leader was terrible. He was telling us utter guff. I argued with him the entire time pretty much.
I did actually get one thing out of it though!
Hey ho.
Bert
Yes that was probably me
Although I only argued when the chap taking the course actually spouted guff.
Just one example... apparently the accident stats in Germany are so high because the German sports car manufacturers lobby the german government to keep all those unlimited autobahns.
Ymmv.
Bert.
Although I only argued when the chap taking the course actually spouted guff.
Just one example... apparently the accident stats in Germany are so high because the German sports car manufacturers lobby the german government to keep all those unlimited autobahns.
Ymmv.
Bert.
BertBert said:
Yes that was probably me
Although I only argued when the chap taking the course actually spouted guff.
Just one example... apparently the accident stats in Germany are so high because the German sports car manufacturers lobby the german government to keep all those unlimited autobahns.
Ymmv.
Bert.
I guess that's the problem when they don't just stick to the script. Not an aspect of driver training I've ever been inclined to get involved in although I have colleagues that do (mainly ex traffic plod)Although I only argued when the chap taking the course actually spouted guff.
Just one example... apparently the accident stats in Germany are so high because the German sports car manufacturers lobby the german government to keep all those unlimited autobahns.
Ymmv.
Bert.
If we take the view that the DSA learner test is the entry-level driving test, then we accept that IAM/RoADAR training is a step up from that then it is indeed an 'Advanced' driving test is it not?
As an aside to this ridiculous debate, I have found that Pistonheads generally is a good forum with some good points/debates/information, the only exception being the 'Advanced' section, where so much BS and mis-information makes it completely useless in every respect!
There are a handful of posters who actually have the pugnacity to post anything remotely resembling any sense in this argumentative environment, I won't name them, they know who they are.
Good job I know from experience that the standard of driving of the people who post here is way better than their forum input!
As an aside to this ridiculous debate, I have found that Pistonheads generally is a good forum with some good points/debates/information, the only exception being the 'Advanced' section, where so much BS and mis-information makes it completely useless in every respect!
There are a handful of posters who actually have the pugnacity to post anything remotely resembling any sense in this argumentative environment, I won't name them, they know who they are.
Good job I know from experience that the standard of driving of the people who post here is way better than their forum input!
25NAD90TUL said:
If we take the view that the DSA learner test is the entry-level driving test, then we accept that IAM/RoADAR training is a step up from that then it is indeed an 'Advanced' driving test is it not?
It's all a bit relative though.The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
vonhosen said:
It's all a bit relative though.
The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
What do you consider to be the pinnacle of driving? Would this be on your shortlist?The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg
(Sebatien Loeb, Pike's Peak)
vonhosen said:
It's all a bit relative though.
The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
I don't consider the IAM/RoADAR test as the pinnacle no, it is 'more advanced' than the DSA but the pinnacle no...The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
Perhaps this is why Tom Topper called his method 'Very Advanced Driving' I guess we could call the IAM test 'Slightly more advanced than the DSA driving'...
I'm with you on this 100% VH, for some drivers the advanced thing makes them think they are more 'advanced' than they are, perhaps we should call it 'slightly above entry-level driving' I don't know. Frankly I don't care what label it's given but I would prefer it if other people had other drivers safety as a priority whatever name it is given.
Didn't it used to be called 'League of Safe Drivers' or something similar? What name would you give it VH if you had the choice?
waremark said:
vonhosen said:
It's all a bit relative though.
The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
What do you consider to be the pinnacle of driving? Would this be on your shortlist?The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg
(Sebatien Loeb, Pike's Peak)
25NAD90TUL said:
vonhosen said:
It's all a bit relative though.
The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
I don't consider the IAM/RoADAR test as the pinnacle no, it is 'more advanced' than the DSA but the pinnacle no...The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?
Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?
Perhaps this is why Tom Topper called his method 'Very Advanced Driving' I guess we could call the IAM test 'Slightly more advanced than the DSA driving'...
I'm with you on this 100% VH, for some drivers the advanced thing makes them think they are more 'advanced' than they are, perhaps we should call it 'slightly above entry-level driving' I don't know. Frankly I don't care what label it's given but I would prefer it if other people had other drivers safety as a priority whatever name it is given.
Didn't it used to be called 'League of Safe Drivers' or something similar? What name would you give it VH if you had the choice?
'Driving for life' or 'Drivers for life' perhaps.
Both suggestive enough & vague enough at the same time (suggesting development & purpose without heavily defining what that purpose is for you, as life/living can mean different things to different people).
vonhosen said:
Don't know, I'd avoid terms like advanced though.
'Driving for life' or 'Drivers for life' perhaps.
Both suggestive enough & vague enough at the same time (suggesting development & purpose without heavily defining what that purpose is for you, as life/living can mean different things to different people).
I think the old 'safe drivers' is as good as anything but again would it attract people to join in the same way? I think if we are all honest, we like having the Advanced tag! When I mention AD to people I know they always assume that it's skid control and evasive/security techniques. Others think it's that extended test that people get after a ban or conviction, I'm very quick to point out that it isn't!'Driving for life' or 'Drivers for life' perhaps.
Both suggestive enough & vague enough at the same time (suggesting development & purpose without heavily defining what that purpose is for you, as life/living can mean different things to different people).
Perhaps 'Entry level' DSA
'Stage 1' IAM etc
'Stage 2' masters/Gold etc
'Stage 3'..........etc etc.
Again though lose the Advanced tag how many of us would be here?
watchnut said:
I look at "Advanced driving" as a "system" of car control. be it the ROSPA or IAM or POLICE driving style or whatever. If you drive creating space for yourself, others, and not mislead or cause others to have to brake/change direction to avoid you then you should if you are driving at the speed you can safely stop in that is clear you are doing things about right.
When I teach youngsters to drive (that's most of the customers i get) I suggest to them that if they can drive a passenger from A to B without them realising they have been on a journey, then you are near enough there. If you drive someone from A to B snapping their neck everytime you hit the "Go" pedal, or brake, or turn, or change gear then you are driving like an arse. Your friends will talk behind your back that your crap, and some may even refuse to be driven by you.
The driving test is a basic standard of driving, we all understand that. the more advanced tests some of us have done go a little further in developing skills taught at a basic level. If you have taken an "advanced test" you are less likely to have an accident than those that have not. If you have a "shunt" you have "failed" a test......and look how many we see/hear of everyday. Maybe insurance companies should insist that if you have an accidnet you should retake a test before they insure you?.....it would improve standards no end
How many folk do you know who have attended a "speed awareness" course, and nearly all of them improve their driving for at least a short time following it?.....everyone I have spoken to who has been caught speeding has said it opened their eyes into how poor their driving had been. being an ADI not many people like to admit they have been cuaght speeding or had an accident....don't know why, I maybe able to help them look at their driving a "different" way. But, as we all know "You only really learn to drive once you have passed your test!".....bks I say...you already know how to drive, all you gain once you have passed your test is experience
Driving is easy....driving safely is a load harder!
Some very good points. Good post. The suggestion about re-testing after a bump is a good one. There should be some kind of further compulsory testing I think we all agree on that. Such a political vote loser, what party is going to alienate themselves from all the voters that drive? Not many.When I teach youngsters to drive (that's most of the customers i get) I suggest to them that if they can drive a passenger from A to B without them realising they have been on a journey, then you are near enough there. If you drive someone from A to B snapping their neck everytime you hit the "Go" pedal, or brake, or turn, or change gear then you are driving like an arse. Your friends will talk behind your back that your crap, and some may even refuse to be driven by you.
The driving test is a basic standard of driving, we all understand that. the more advanced tests some of us have done go a little further in developing skills taught at a basic level. If you have taken an "advanced test" you are less likely to have an accident than those that have not. If you have a "shunt" you have "failed" a test......and look how many we see/hear of everyday. Maybe insurance companies should insist that if you have an accidnet you should retake a test before they insure you?.....it would improve standards no end
How many folk do you know who have attended a "speed awareness" course, and nearly all of them improve their driving for at least a short time following it?.....everyone I have spoken to who has been caught speeding has said it opened their eyes into how poor their driving had been. being an ADI not many people like to admit they have been cuaght speeding or had an accident....don't know why, I maybe able to help them look at their driving a "different" way. But, as we all know "You only really learn to drive once you have passed your test!".....b
ks I say...you already know how to drive, all you gain once you have passed your test is experienceDriving is easy....driving safely is a load harder!
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