What exactly is advanced driving.

[waremark]

vonhosen said:

waremark said:

vonhosen said:

It's all a bit relative though.
The DSA have an 'advanced' test & I suppose 'advanced' rather depends on where you see the pinnacle as being. I mean multiplication is more advanced than addition, but does that mean simple multiplication is advanced mathematics?

Is an IAM test pass closer to a DSA test standard pass or what you might consider the pinnacle of driving?

What do you consider to be the pinnacle of driving? Would this be on your shortlist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg

(Sebatien Loeb, Pike's Peak)

I consider driving to be like a tree. Seb obviously has a very developed hill climb branch & he is right there at the top of it (it's not his only highly developed branch either). I don't know what his whole tree looks like though because I haven't seen all his branches. He might have fantastic growth on all the branches & be an imposing beautiful mighty tree, or he might have a few ugly diseased stunted branches that spoil the overall look.

Fair point, poetically put.

[25NAD90TUL]

7mike said:

Most people I meet that have attended speed awareness courses are quite positive about the experience.

They are going to though aren't they? Wonder if they say the same to their mates in the boozer? It's a bit like telling a magistrate what a good boy they are going to be from now on, after getting done. These people are going to say anything they can to keep their license I think.

[waremark]

25NAD90TUL said:

7mike said:

Most people I meet that have attended speed awareness courses are quite positive about the experience.

They are going to though aren't they? Wonder if they say the same to their mates in the boozer? It's a bit like telling a magistrate what a good boy they are going to be from now on, after getting done. These people are going to say anything they can to keep their license I think.

I attended one, and I am quite positive about the experience - I guess saying it to my mates on here is pretty comparable to saying it to my mates in the boozer? I thought it was the sort of course which all licensed drivers ought to have to attend every few years - videos illustrating the effect of speed on stopping distances, photos of locations where there had been fatals with discussion of what hazards might be anticipated out of sight, etc.

As it happens, I was outed as a 'plant', since one of the course instructors on the day was the man who organises our local IAM Regional Training Team.

[watchnut]

I would like to attend one of these "courses" but don't wish to get caught speeding first! any idea how I can?

[Toltec]

25NAD90TUL said:

Perhaps this is why Tom Topper called his method 'Very Advanced Driving'

Still have that somewhere, bought it a few months before getting my provisional licence.

[7mike]

25NAD90TUL said:

7mike said:

Most people I meet that have attended speed awareness courses are quite positive about the experience.

They are going to though aren't they? Wonder if they say the same to their mates in the boozer? It's a bit like telling a magistrate what a good boy they are going to be from now on, after getting done. These people are going to say anything they can to keep their license I think.

Why do you think they wouldn't be honest to me? I've nothing to do with their previous course & certainly no threat to them keeping their licence.

[MC Bodge]

Toltec said:

25NAD90TUL said:

Perhaps this is why Tom Topper called his method 'Very Advanced Driving'

Still have that somewhere, bought it a few months before getting my provisional licence.

I wasn't that impressed with it. The author sounded fairly arrogant and recommended some fairly dubious practices from what I remember.

[RichB]

25NAD90TUL said:

7mike said:

Most people I meet that have attended speed awareness courses are quite positive about the experience.

They are going to though aren't they? Wonder if they say the same to their mates in the boozer? It's a bit like telling a magistrate what a good boy they are going to be from now on, after getting done. These people are going to say anything they can to keep their license I think.

A couple of years ago I attended a Speed Awareness Course and actually quite enjoyed it. We did, however, have a very entertaining and interesting presenter who was an ex-police motor cycle rider. A few months later my wife got an invitation to attend one and I recommended it, however she had some died in the wool, stiff shirt who border them rigid pontificating about the evil of exceeding speed limits. Yet the material we decided was pretty much the same! To this day we each disagree vehemently about the value of such courses so it obviously depends entirely on the personal style of the presenter.

[p1esk]

MC Bodge said:

Toltec said:

25NAD90TUL said:

Perhaps this is why Tom Topper called his method 'Very Advanced Driving'

Still have that somewhere, bought it a few months before getting my provisional licence.

I wasn't that impressed with it. The author sounded fairly arrogant and recommended some fairly dubious practices from what I remember.

I quite liked the book. Mr T has a fairly robust way of expressing himself, and some of his ideas might provoke a slight raising of an eyebrow, but it prompts a bit of new thinking, which I don't regard as a bad thing. He certainly isn't an unquestioning advocate of the existing AD industry, so of course I'd have some time for him.

Edited by p1esk on Wednesday 8th January 08:26

[Toltec]

MC Bodge said:

Toltec said:

25NAD90TUL said:

Perhaps this is why Tom Topper called his method 'Very Advanced Driving'

Still have that somewhere, bought it a few months before getting my provisional licence.

I wasn't that impressed with it. The author sounded fairly arrogant and recommended some fairly dubious practices from what I remember.

Things have moved on since the early 80's, he certainly provided plenty for me to think about at the time, not that his ideas completely rubbed off on me as I ended up riding bikes for the next decade or so. I found his book a lot easier to read and digest than Roadcraft, it was a good introduction to the functional aspects of better driving such as observation and using what you see to predict hazards and opportunities for progress. I prefer the attitude based concept of Mind Driving now, when I read that a few years ago it meshed well with my own thoughts about really forms the basis of a good driver. It is not adequate to simply observe other road users and plan according to physical possibilities, you need to appreciate what is going on in their heads, not a lot sometimes, to help predict their actions and reactions to your actions.

[Technomad]

MC Bodge said:

I wasn't that impressed with it. The author sounded fairly arrogant and recommended some fairly dubious practices from what I remember.

Agreed. I have a copy from about 1963, purely for amusement value and to illustrate how far thinking has come. This book really is a product of its time - in recent decades, the only people I've come across with hangover attitudes from this era have been a few Police instructors and John Lyon himself. I do however think that organisations like IAM and RoSPA have now tipped into a fear-driven (ie fear of the Daily Mail) political correctness which hugely hampers their ability to teach safe and effective driving and riding.

[waremark]

Technomad said:

I do however think that organisations like IAM and RoSPA have now tipped into a fear-driven (ie fear of the Daily Mail) political correctness which hugely hampers their ability to teach safe and effective driving and riding.

You will have to explain what you mean by that. Please.

[25NAD90TUL]

p1esk said:

I quite liked the book. Mr T has a fairly robust way of expressing himself, and some of his ideas might provoke a slight raising of an eyebrow, but it prompts a bit of new thinking, which I don't regard as a bad thing. He certainly isn't an unquestioning advocate of the existing AD industry, so of course I'd have some time for him.

Edited by p1esk on Wednesday 8th January 08:26

I tend to subconsciously base my writing style in these forums on Topper's style...That's why I p*ss so many people off, it isn't intentional, must have just picked up on his 'robust way of expressing himself'...My favourite quote from his book is: 'Bow out through a hedge backwards rather than having a head-on, such points of honour will flash through your (hopefully) active brain'...priceless.

Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Monday 13th January 00:36

[25NAD90TUL]

7mike said:

Why do you think they wouldn't be honest to me? I've nothing to do with their previous course & certainly no threat to them keeping their licence.

I was just alluding to the fact that everyone who gets done is likely to say that those days are over in the presence of an authority figure.

[25NAD90TUL]

waremark said:

I attended one, and I am quite positive about the experience - I guess saying it to my mates on here is pretty comparable to saying it to my mates in the boozer? I thought it was the sort of course which all licensed drivers ought to have to attend every few years - videos illustrating the effect of speed on stopping distances, photos of locations where there had been fatals with discussion of what hazards might be anticipated out of sight, etc.

As it happens, I was outed as a 'plant', since one of the course instructors on the day was the man who organises our local IAM Regional Training Team.

I was shocked when I saw your comment, thinking 'surely waremark hasn't been forced to go on one of these courses' then I saw the 'plant' thing it made sense!

[25NAD90TUL]

p1esk said:

Yes, this is all fine, and most drivers probably do not look far enough ahead, but how far ahead do we need to look in order to be able to cope with things comfortably?

Isn't the answer to that dependant on the speed you're travelling at?