Bus lane question.
Discussion
mikebradford said:
Bus driver, as i hate them lol
worse are people who dont realise many bus lanes have times on them, and choose not to use them when they should
May the ignorance continue, nothing better than slowly driving down a bus lane out of hours passing all the ignorant queuing in the other lane worse are people who dont realise many bus lanes have times on them, and choose not to use them when they should
Just love it.
The bus lanes in Worcester, of which FiF is referring to , tend to be of different flavours .
I'm working by memory here, but two of the bus lanes are timed, but different timings.
One ends in traffic lights, one set for the bus, the other for normal vehicles, buses are well known to pull out here if their lights are on red.
One ends with a "give way" for the bus.
So you can forgive people for not knowing what to do, we need some kind of standard, traffic islands are fast becoming the same, all done locally.
The bus lanes in Worcester are for buses and cycles only, it is the one area the council have been sensible on, no taxis or motorcycles allowed.
I'm working by memory here, but two of the bus lanes are timed, but different timings.
One ends in traffic lights, one set for the bus, the other for normal vehicles, buses are well known to pull out here if their lights are on red.
One ends with a "give way" for the bus.
So you can forgive people for not knowing what to do, we need some kind of standard, traffic islands are fast becoming the same, all done locally.
The bus lanes in Worcester are for buses and cycles only, it is the one area the council have been sensible on, no taxis or motorcycles allowed.
Yep, the route I'm talking about is Perdiswell to Bus station, the bus lane starts out as 24/7 and there is a set of traffic lights near to the entrance to the sports grounds/health centre. If the bus is in the lane and it's dedicated lights are on red they tend to use might is right to leave the bus lane and carry on through the lights for other traffic.
After the A38/A449 lights the bus lane is timed, and is not continuous. Sometimes there is a short bit of lane before the junction, but usually the solid white line bordering the bus lane ends right on the junction itself, so technically one has to make a very sharp turn left at 90 degrees across the lane.
To answer a couple of earlier questions, Clio started indicating while the bus was a good way back. I'd guess about 5+ bus lengths, say 50m? The differential speed was quite low as the available width is quite narrow when vehicles queuing on the right.
Normally would give some street view images but google seems to have updated things and it's a complete dog's breakfast.
After the A38/A449 lights the bus lane is timed, and is not continuous. Sometimes there is a short bit of lane before the junction, but usually the solid white line bordering the bus lane ends right on the junction itself, so technically one has to make a very sharp turn left at 90 degrees across the lane.
To answer a couple of earlier questions, Clio started indicating while the bus was a good way back. I'd guess about 5+ bus lengths, say 50m? The differential speed was quite low as the available width is quite narrow when vehicles queuing on the right.
Normally would give some street view images but google seems to have updated things and it's a complete dog's breakfast.
And another thing. At junctions where cars can turn into the bus lane to turn left, you see this sign.
I queried this with the police and asked them that I assumed it only applied during bus lane times, ie outwith bus times, cars in the bus lane could carry straight over the junction. They said No it was in force 24/7.
I then queried it with the roads dept with the council, and they said it only applied during bus lane operation, so outwith bus lane operation cars in the bus lane could go straight over, which makes perfect sense.
I keep a copy of their letter in my car.
Of course you will only see where the bus lane continues the other side of the junction.
I queried this with the police and asked them that I assumed it only applied during bus lane times, ie outwith bus times, cars in the bus lane could carry straight over the junction. They said No it was in force 24/7.
I then queried it with the roads dept with the council, and they said it only applied during bus lane operation, so outwith bus lane operation cars in the bus lane could go straight over, which makes perfect sense.
I keep a copy of their letter in my car.
Of course you will only see where the bus lane continues the other side of the junction.
Edited by Vipers on Wednesday 25th December 18:24
7db said:
Did the bus lane end with a giveway line against the bus?
On that junction no. Looking at it again the continuous bus lane line just ends. The tarmac then has no lane markings. Other side of the junction there is an angled dotted line for across from the kerb to the restart of the continuous line.FiF said:
7db said:
Did the bus lane end with a giveway line against the bus?
On that junction no. Looking at it again the continuous bus lane line just ends. The tarmac then has no lane markings. Other side of the junction there is an angled dotted line for across from the kerb to the restart of the continuous line.davepoth said:
FiF said:
7db said:
Did the bus lane end with a giveway line against the bus?
On that junction no. Looking at it again the continuous bus lane line just ends. The tarmac then has no lane markings. Other side of the junction there is an angled dotted line for across from the kerb to the restart of the continuous line.If you look at Traffic Signs manual chapter 5 Road Markings Diagram 17-1 on page 103 link to pdf scroll to page you will find the diagram for how bus lanes should be marked near to junctions.
Attempts to upload a screen grab, here goes...
Wow, great success.
It seems that for most of the junctions they are painted in the arrangement as defined on the left hand side of the image for junction with one way road joining from the left, regardless of whether the joining road is two way, one way out, or one way in.
Here is a link to a street view of one of the junctions link
There's been numerous accidents at this part of Cardiff city centre. I've have numerous VERY close encounters, including one where a car overtook me and then immediately turned left infront of me, luckily I was going slow enough to stop JUST in time, millimetres from hitting them. Passenger on my bus fell and cut her head, and made a successful claim of around ~5k against the car driver's insurance.
Have witnessed one incident where a young girl in a clio turned left infront of a taxi by there, wrecked both cars and her passenger had to be cut out by the fire service.
No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
junction in question (streetview): http://tinyurl.com/prqgkcm
Have witnessed one incident where a young girl in a clio turned left infront of a taxi by there, wrecked both cars and her passenger had to be cut out by the fire service.
No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
junction in question (streetview): http://tinyurl.com/prqgkcm
folos said:
There's been numerous accidents at this part of Cardiff city centre. I've have numerous VERY close encounters, including one where a car overtook me and then immediately turned left infront of me, luckily I was going slow enough to stop JUST in time, millimetres from hitting them. Passenger on my bus fell and cut her head, and made a successful claim of around ~5k against the car driver's insurance.
Have witnessed one incident where a young girl in a clio turned left infront of a taxi by there, wrecked both cars and her passenger had to be cut out by the fire service.
No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
junction in question (streetview): http://tinyurl.com/prqgkcm
It's no excuse, but perhaps it is because the bus lane appears to go all the way to the junction, and having a lane with possible moving traffic to our left, that we are not allowed to use is a completely false situation, which it would appear is pandering more to the anti car lobby, than anything to do with road safety.Have witnessed one incident where a young girl in a clio turned left infront of a taxi by there, wrecked both cars and her passenger had to be cut out by the fire service.
No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
junction in question (streetview): http://tinyurl.com/prqgkcm
folos said:
Have witnessed one incident where a young girl in a clio turned left infront of a taxi by there, wrecked both cars and her passenger had to be cut out by the fire service.
No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
I once had a Dutch reg BMW decide to do a U-turn directly in front of my coach on the A4 somewhere East of Reading. Totally illogical & suicidal manoeuvre but I still managed to stop without harming my passengers. Can't for the life of me think why it wouldn't be possible to anticipate someone turning left at that junction & not approach accordingly? Or is having "right of way" more important?No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
folos said:
There's been numerous accidents at this part of Cardiff city centre. I've have numerous VERY close encounters, including one where a car overtook me and then immediately turned left infront of me, luckily I was going slow enough to stop JUST in time, millimetres from hitting them. Passenger on my bus fell and cut her head, and made a successful claim of around ~5k against the car driver's insurance.
Have witnessed one incident where a young girl in a clio turned left infront of a taxi by there, wrecked both cars and her passenger had to be cut out by the fire service.
No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
junction in question (streetview): http://tinyurl.com/prqgkcm
If you can indeed turn left there, then the bus lane marking is wrong surely, cars should be able to move over before the junction.Have witnessed one incident where a young girl in a clio turned left infront of a taxi by there, wrecked both cars and her passenger had to be cut out by the fire service.
No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
junction in question (streetview): http://tinyurl.com/prqgkcm
See FiF's post up the page on bus lane layout.
Edited by Vipers on Thursday 2nd January 11:33
7mike said:
I once had a Dutch reg BMW decide to do a U-turn directly in front of my coach on the A4 somewhere East of Reading. Totally illogical & suicidal manoeuvre but I still managed to stop without harming my passengers. Can't for the life of me think why it wouldn't be possible to anticipate someone turning left at that junction & not approach accordingly? Or is having "right of way" more important?
Taxi driver, say no more!In my case there was nothing I could have done, the car raced past me then turned left directly infront of me without any indication or warning.
It is a very badly designed junction, and I try to avoid using that bit of bus lane if practical and if I have to I take every care and allow traffic to turn left infront of me if it's reasonable to do so.
Further to FiF's post on bus lane marking, look at this shot.
This road is looking southbound on Wellington Rd Aberdeen, the wall to the left of the picture is the boundry of a prison.
Note the current lane marking, albeit a bit worn, shows double solid white lines on the single carriageway heading south, obvious as you can see there is a blind sweeping left hander.
However when the road was first made three lanes instead of the original two, the left hand lane had a dotted white lines on the inside and a solid one outside of allowing you to pull out into the second lane.
I wrote to the council expressing my view that the markings were incorrect, to which they replied that after a road is re opened, then they carry out a safety survey, and at that time hadn't been done.
Some months later, they remarked the separation of the single lane heading south and the adjacent lane with two double solid lines, in fact I think the pic shows some of the secondary paint missing, ie worn.
My point is the contractor who painted the bus lane without the merge arrow to allow vehicles to turn left may have screwed up.
Based on this, why not contact the council with your thoughts on this possibility quoting the reference from FiF on bus lane markings.
I just do not accept the lane marking just suddenly ending on a corner is correct. If you don't tell them, they may not be aware of it.
This road is looking southbound on Wellington Rd Aberdeen, the wall to the left of the picture is the boundry of a prison.
Note the current lane marking, albeit a bit worn, shows double solid white lines on the single carriageway heading south, obvious as you can see there is a blind sweeping left hander.
However when the road was first made three lanes instead of the original two, the left hand lane had a dotted white lines on the inside and a solid one outside of allowing you to pull out into the second lane.
I wrote to the council expressing my view that the markings were incorrect, to which they replied that after a road is re opened, then they carry out a safety survey, and at that time hadn't been done.
Some months later, they remarked the separation of the single lane heading south and the adjacent lane with two double solid lines, in fact I think the pic shows some of the secondary paint missing, ie worn.
My point is the contractor who painted the bus lane without the merge arrow to allow vehicles to turn left may have screwed up.
Based on this, why not contact the council with your thoughts on this possibility quoting the reference from FiF on bus lane markings.
I just do not accept the lane marking just suddenly ending on a corner is correct. If you don't tell them, they may not be aware of it.
Edited by Vipers on Friday 3rd January 00:12
folos said:
No idea why, but car drivers seem to think it's their right of way to turn left infront of moving vehicles in the bus lane by there.
junction in question
it's an offense to undertake to gain an advantage which is what the bus seemed to do in the OP question. There's no excuse just to pull across and carve up a bus on the inside but it's also no excuse to assume a bus (or any other vehicle) in an inside lane can undertake with impunity in the same way as if overtaking in an outside lane. junction in question
While pulling in front of a vehicle who's established in lane is wrong whether inside or outside your position, a vehicle undertaking that prevents a car from legitimately entering their lane is in my opinion undertaking to gain an advantage and committing an offense.
Relative road position is key here as always and driving with better hazard perception would reduce accidents (can't always eliminate) irrespective of whether the other driver is in the wrong or not. Being in the 'right' doesn't make an accident any less serious.
FiF said:
7db said:
Did the bus lane end with a giveway line against the bus?
On that junction no. Looking at it again the continuous bus lane line just ends. The tarmac then has no lane markings. Other side of the junction there is an angled dotted line for across from the kerb to the restart of the continuous line.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff