The future of Advanced Driving.
Discussion
25NAD90TUL said:
I love it when I see good driving out on the road, when it's smooth flowing and drivers are driving responsibly and well, that kind of driving isn't limited to people who do the official AD courses, good driving doesn't need a label or insignia.
Thank god. I've never been a Vauxhall guy (unless it's the VX220 or Monaro, but neither are technically Vauxhalls).ChilliWhizz said:
If a new method or system is constructed, surely it would be good if it in some way attracted people who don't have that inherent sense of what is safe and what isn't. Teaching someone not to drive two lengths behind the car in front when doing 70mph isn't teaching them a skill (IMO), but if they can be disuaded from such actions through training it would make the roads a safer place, which surely must be the aim of AD?
Personally I would vote for some amount of compulsory driver retraining, at least a minimum of half a day in a classroom every 10 years. Fortuitously, vast numbers of drivers are receiving something a bit like this through speed awareness courses. For some attendees what they hear will fall on deaf ears, but others, who would never have volunteered for a session of this kind, will surely become slightly safer as a result of attending. waremark said:
Personally I would vote for some amount of compulsory driver retraining, at least a minimum of half a day in a classroom every 10 years. Fortuitously, vast numbers of drivers are receiving something a bit like this through speed awareness courses. For some attendees what they hear will fall on deaf ears, but others, who would never have volunteered for a session of this kind, will surely become slightly safer as a result of attending.
When I did my speed awareness course (which I was surprised to find interesting and not condescending) only three of us had taken any further training - and we were all bikers. 
waremark said:
Personally I would vote for some amount of compulsory driver retraining
Agree 100%. What political party is going to commit political suicide by suggesting this? That is the problem there, I'm not getting into politics here, apart from that I think party politics is a pile of rubbish and in NO-ONE'S best interestswaremark said:
vast numbers of drivers are receiving something a bit like this through speed awareness courses. For some attendees what they hear will fall on deaf ears, but others, who would never have volunteered for a session of this kind, will surely become slightly safer as a result of attending.
The parable of the lost sheep...'one sinner that repenteth....' As you state though, for most people it's a box ticking exercise, just a way of lightening a tariff after an offense, they'll say how good it was and how much they learned, then go to the pub and tell their mates what a pile of rubbish it is and most probably do the opposite on-road, just to be bloody-minded. But like the parable, if it changes just one driver and makes them safer... R0G said:
Cliftonite said:
I believe I was being sensible, logical and realistic. Never mind!
By putting your money ahead of safety ?????? !!!!!!!!!!!Cliftonite, would you clarify what you are saying here? I think some confusion may have arisen from your earlier statement, I'm sure we have misunderstood your point.
0a said:
How about renaming it from "advanced driving" to "improving drivers" - I have to admit a lot of the bickering and the posts on this forum put me off getting involved even thought I'm not a great driver but willing to learn.
If anything I would re-name it as 'Very Advanced Driving' as most contributors will have been through IAM and RoSPA training and have had time to develop their driving further...As a driver with a willingness to improve, an admirable quality to have and an essential as far as going into the AD realm is concerned, have you considered IAM/RoSPA? For the price they are very good starting points, although we bicker endlessly about 'the system' and it's finer points, I think we would all agree that this is a good starting point in AD. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all, it isn't, but it is a good thing to have in the fabric of your driving, I think very few will disagree on this point, some areas of the training may be a little fuddy-duddy and a little pedantic, but things like the forward obs side and the hazard perception side are well worth having down, some of the more seemingly pedantic areas, such as the dreaded bgol, are training tools to get the driver thinking about what they're doing at all times, and can be taken the wrong way, they are not a case of 'you must do this or that' merely a case of 'you must be thinking at all times' about what you are doing.
Don't let the bickering put you off, there are a great many areas on which we all completely agree, most contributors have 'the system' down well and are in a position to criticise and debate it's merits and failings, we all enjoy a good debate and I personally have seen excellent wisdom emerge from these discussions. I'd recommend doing it, as far as driver training goes they are very cheap, you get a certificate at the end and the option to join the organisation and to go further with things like observer training which is also very good. These are a good jumping off point, not the be all and end all, but a good thing to have. I think most would agree with this. The fact that you are even open to the fact that you could use some improvement makes you well better than average already imo, the common factor to all of our attitudes and methods is going to be that safety and responsibility will be at the very top of the list, the techniques used may vary, but that fact is never going to...
rsv gone! said:
When I did my speed awareness course (which I was surprised to find interesting and not condescending) only three of us had taken any further training - and we were all bikers.
I find with bikeys, and I have considerable experience with bike mechanics and have a few off roaders and have done a bit, that they are generally more mechanically minded and more at one with their machine than a lot of drivers, they usually know where the oil and water go and obviously are aware of things like balance and good cornering to a greater level than a lot of car drivers.25NAD90TUL said:
R0G said:
Cliftonite said:
I believe I was being sensible, logical and realistic. Never mind!
By putting your money ahead of safety ?????? !!!!!!!!!!!Cliftonite, would you clarify what you are saying here? I think some confusion may have arisen from your earlier statement, I'm sure we have misunderstood your point.
Toltec said:
Less a matter of doing something dangerous to avoid the law.
I didn't think for a minute he was suggesting anything along those lines. I think his post was worded in a way that was a little bit open to mis-interpretation, a common thing with forum speak.Insignia? I guess that's a Vauxhall model then. Never heard of it.
Toltec said:
I think what Cliftonite means is that where the chance of prosecution exists this will influence the choice made. Less a matter of doing something dangerous to avoid the law, more going with a less than optimal choice from a safety perspective that will also reduce conflict with the law.
Couldn't have put it better myself! Thank you!I am working on a list of examples where extra safety margin would have to be sacrificed to keep within the letter of the law, but fear I may incriminate myself by publishing them! I could always call them hypothetical cases, I suppose!
25NAD90TUL said:
I'm still confused...Sacrificing extra safety margin to keep within the letter of the law?
But don't worry about it, it's just that I am trying to picture a scenario and struggling to think of one where this might be applicable.
Simple example: Exceeding the NSL to overtake on the long, clear straights where a speed camera is sometimes situated. Faster speed would be safe but illegal. Slower speed (made necessary by said Gatso) would be legal but riskier (longer period on the off-side).But don't worry about it, it's just that I am trying to picture a scenario and struggling to think of one where this might be applicable.
HTH
25NAD90TUL said:
Myself, if there is ANYONE watching including a camera I will drive completely legally at all times, I may change this if there's no one around to witness it, my clean license is very dear to me.
That sounds like what Cliftonite said on page 1:Cliftonite said:
If you are in sight of a policeman or a traffic camera, then LEGALITY takes top billing. It is to be hoped that SAFETY is not far behind, in second place, though.
I think the two of you agree.So having browsed another forum recently I see that the current edition of Roadcraft has some alterations regarding steering methods. These may take a while to be assimilated into the IAM, as has been suggested.
Last I has anything to do with IAM they seemed to be going towards a new steering method, a form of small bite pull-push that I and others could only call 'shuffling' it didn't seem a very good method, I can't elaborate further because I dropped out of IAM at that point over un-related matters.
I'm always on hand to recommend the training and feel the IAM methods are sound FOR ME. However the social side of IAM wasn't for me but could well be for others.
It's a well known fact that I myself have a very old school attitude toward my own driving, old Roadcraft, separation, pull-push, I enjoy all these things. It's a fact that I would like to be back in the 60s and 70s, perhaps pull-pushing in an old Oxford or Cambridge. It might be pertinent for me to mention that 90% of my driving is in vehicles with technology developed in the 1950s, that may explain a lot to people about where I'm at currently, big steering wheels, no PAS. Although I do have modern vehicles but I still drive them the same way. Now that is me, it's how I am, it isn't for everyone and the purpose of my starting this thread is to gain insight into what is going on at the sharp end of AD. Me being as it were at the 'blunt' or 'dull' end! My purpose isn't going to be arguing about the system and any changes people make in their own drive, also changes which they may feel should be included in 21st century AD, but to learn what these thoughts are and hopefully learn a lot along the way.
I can't see my style changing anytime soon but that isn't to negate ideas which may come through, admittedly probably from a lot of drivers who are way better than I. Better drivers than myself feel that change is long overdue in this field and hopefully will dispense some good advice that drivers like me can all nick and try in our own drive.
Last I has anything to do with IAM they seemed to be going towards a new steering method, a form of small bite pull-push that I and others could only call 'shuffling' it didn't seem a very good method, I can't elaborate further because I dropped out of IAM at that point over un-related matters.
I'm always on hand to recommend the training and feel the IAM methods are sound FOR ME. However the social side of IAM wasn't for me but could well be for others.
It's a well known fact that I myself have a very old school attitude toward my own driving, old Roadcraft, separation, pull-push, I enjoy all these things. It's a fact that I would like to be back in the 60s and 70s, perhaps pull-pushing in an old Oxford or Cambridge. It might be pertinent for me to mention that 90% of my driving is in vehicles with technology developed in the 1950s, that may explain a lot to people about where I'm at currently, big steering wheels, no PAS. Although I do have modern vehicles but I still drive them the same way. Now that is me, it's how I am, it isn't for everyone and the purpose of my starting this thread is to gain insight into what is going on at the sharp end of AD. Me being as it were at the 'blunt' or 'dull' end! My purpose isn't going to be arguing about the system and any changes people make in their own drive, also changes which they may feel should be included in 21st century AD, but to learn what these thoughts are and hopefully learn a lot along the way.
I can't see my style changing anytime soon but that isn't to negate ideas which may come through, admittedly probably from a lot of drivers who are way better than I. Better drivers than myself feel that change is long overdue in this field and hopefully will dispense some good advice that drivers like me can all nick and try in our own drive.
What do people think about using your left foot to brake in automatics or semi-automatics?
I use this quite often, in my Smart where the brake pedal is set well to the left it is my standard way of driving it, in my wife's BMW I use either foot depending on the situation.
Examples-
At a mini-roundabout where you end up in a Mexican standoff if you decide to take the initiative at same time as the vehicle to the right does you can be on the brake without the extra delay of moving your foot.
Approaching a side road where you feel there is a possibility a driver will pull out you can easily maintain a steady approach speed while also covering the brake. Particularly useful while travelling uphill.
I use this quite often, in my Smart where the brake pedal is set well to the left it is my standard way of driving it, in my wife's BMW I use either foot depending on the situation.
Examples-
At a mini-roundabout where you end up in a Mexican standoff if you decide to take the initiative at same time as the vehicle to the right does you can be on the brake without the extra delay of moving your foot.
Approaching a side road where you feel there is a possibility a driver will pull out you can easily maintain a steady approach speed while also covering the brake. Particularly useful while travelling uphill.
Toltec said:
What do people think about using your left foot to brake in automatics or semi-automatics?
I use this quite often, in my Smart where the brake pedal is set well to the left it is my standard way of driving it, in my wife's BMW I use either foot depending on the situation.
Examples-
At a mini-roundabout where you end up in a Mexican standoff if you decide to take the initiative at same time as the vehicle to the right does you can be on the brake without the extra delay of moving your foot.
Approaching a side road where you feel there is a possibility a driver will pull out you can easily maintain a steady approach speed while also covering the brake. Particularly useful while travelling uphill.
Interesting to hear people's views on this. It's not something I do when driving autos, but if it's done with aforethought as part of a driving plan I don't see an issue.I use this quite often, in my Smart where the brake pedal is set well to the left it is my standard way of driving it, in my wife's BMW I use either foot depending on the situation.
Examples-
At a mini-roundabout where you end up in a Mexican standoff if you decide to take the initiative at same time as the vehicle to the right does you can be on the brake without the extra delay of moving your foot.
Approaching a side road where you feel there is a possibility a driver will pull out you can easily maintain a steady approach speed while also covering the brake. Particularly useful while travelling uphill.
Actually if you ever get to drive, or have driven any of the old American cars with auto trans, the 'handbrake' well parkbrake, is operated by the left foot. It's a pedal near the side of the driver's footwell on a ratchet system, you press it down firmly with your foot and to release it you pull a lever in the dash and it springs up, you pull the lever and twist and it releases the ratchet pawl. An interesting way to hill start. We used to left foot brake, when stopped, just enough to activate the front brakes so we could burn out, an alternative to fitting a line lock, which we also fitted many of...
Not quite the same as what you are describing. I'm not negating any ideas whatsoever in this thread, I purely want to see what ideas are out there and am having a completely open mind about them.
I love to push the case for Pull-Push steering and separating out the brake and gearchange in the threads about these techniques, a lot of it is tongue in cheek, I know how passionate a lot are about these techniques, I just enjoy the stylish side of them and don't view them as essential things that everyone must use.
You have witnessed first hand the reaction to my views on following distance, none of that was tongue in cheek though, I really meant it. Often I'm shot down in flames, I don't mind, I live and learn. It's all good.
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