The future of Advanced Driving.
Discussion
Martin A said:
Although the Code may not be perfect in terms of allowing an individual (read boy racer, Advanced Driver, Mum on school run) to make progress or to showcase their handling skills and may also result in tiny amounts of extra wear and tear that straight-lining a roundabout can save, it is not designed for this. It is designed to keep us all safe.
The Expert part would be to teach drivers not just to be safe but to enable others to FEEL safe 100% of the time. Something which Advanced, or Very Advanced Drivers don't always do.
Having been involved in driver training for over 25 years I have developed a method which combines Roadcraft and the DSA styles that can get a novice to a very high standard in a relatively short space of time. One of the features is that it enables people to learn judgement quickly through simple theoretical rules rather than months or years of experience. This is how I see the future and hopefully one day everyone will be taught like this or in a very similar way.
Thank you very much for your valued input Martin, some very good points, the driver training you have described sounds very good. Thanks and best wishes.The Expert part would be to teach drivers not just to be safe but to enable others to FEEL safe 100% of the time. Something which Advanced, or Very Advanced Drivers don't always do.
Having been involved in driver training for over 25 years I have developed a method which combines Roadcraft and the DSA styles that can get a novice to a very high standard in a relatively short space of time. One of the features is that it enables people to learn judgement quickly through simple theoretical rules rather than months or years of experience. This is how I see the future and hopefully one day everyone will be taught like this or in a very similar way.
Perhaps this thread should be called the 'Very Advanced Driving' thread in memory of old Tom, wonder what the A stood for? I thought it might be Admiral. Drivers such as myself, approaching 50, only have 10% of my 'to do' list finished, done some good stuff, music at quite high level, banger racing at 15, F1 Stocks at 18, mechanic since I stripped down my first mechanical toy at age 3 and was sent to bed xmas day, are still learning! An AD certificate is far from the be-all and end-all, there is still much to be thought out and discovered, especially these days as new ideas are very much coming through and being assimilated into the AD thinking of the future.
WE know what AD is, we have RoSPA gold and IAM first masters etc, or some do, I have none of these, my last test I was predicted a first on the pre test, the examiner had other ideas, although when I saw his reaction to the drive, I could see why, I didn't drive my best and was nervous, he had also invigilated an exam at my daughter's school the day before, my daughter had pink hair at the time and he was a class 1 police, he'd recognised the name, it's a rare one and said she was one of the better mannered of them etc, blah blah, anyway we've been through that and had time now to polish what we had. That's what this thread is about! Here we discuss our own beliefs, methods, techniques whatever we want to call them. There's no right or wrong in this, we are different, for example I'm very good at not breaking anything, years of driving customers cars with faults, prestige cars, imagine a Ferrari Dino with hardly any brakes, from Blackpool to Cheshire. Changing gear in a car with a broken clutch, rather than replace it roadside, yes my employers had brought a clutch kit and tools with them, trying to tow a trailer with a '73 wedge Mustang on it with a worn clutch pressure plate, dragging is a symptom of pressure plate wear, whereas slipping is friction plate wear, for anyone who doesn't know.
So 30 odd years on at 46 I'm not a beginner, I buy and sell cars and 4x4s and restore classic cars and landrovers, although I 'work' in the conservation industry, apart from collecting a few royalties from my work a few years ago that still keeps giving. I do advocate the old school 'system' IPSGA as it's now called, it has served me well, if I get drowsy on the 600 mile journey I regularly do at 50 in a landrover pulling a car trailer, I'll go into commentary and my drive sharpens, or so it seems, maybe it's psychological but I sharpen up...A high point has been getting a 1 for commentary from a class 1, I used no stock phrases whatsoever although he did write 'continuous commentary' on the test sheet, the swine! Glory days.
The future of Advanced Driving, well, a lot of people have been studying and practising this driving malarkey for some time. Little is written on the subject and a lot feel that some of the old methods used by the big clubs is in need of an update, although 'club' isn't the right word, these organisations IAM RoSPA and others are at the cutting edge of driver training, their belief is that further training can lead to improved safety on the roads and who but a fool, wouldn't want that? I am a supporter. I think we all agree that as long as what we do is always safe and we pose no risk to others on the road we are doing ok and our methods and systems are sound.
Tom Topper said 'Bow out through a hedge backwards rather than have a head on' he called it a 'point of honour' I think he was saying that if you're gonna lark about, make sure you're not where you're gonna hurt anyone else. Pretty good advise, I've always favoured an easy conscience.
In my own driving I leave a lot of drivers for dead, in a non turbo diesel landrover! Simply on account of my sign awareness. Bgol has it's place in drilling in to a driver the need to always be aware of what you're doing, it's always been the case that if you state in commentary that you are going to overlap it is fine and considered as good forward planning, it's about the forward planning phase, it's a bit like the trick question 'what was the last sign you saw?' What that trick can do for your sign awareness! Good stuff. And in the same way that we learn continuously throughout our career there is good stuff out there, and here is where it collects, a pool of knowledge which we can all dip into.
The system, steering, vehicle control, observation, hazard perception, cockpit/vehicle checks, mechanics and maintenance, the driver, benefits, downsides, pros, cons, driving LGVs, PSVs, Chauffeuring, minicabbing, licencing, laws, insurance, MOTs, everything driving related, it is all welcome here in this thread and nothing is OT.
So, the esteemed group that is the AD section of PH, if you're bored and there isn't any threads you feel like sticking your oar into, post something into this one, your knowledge, advise, experiences, ideas and theories are wanted and will be viewed with keen interest and greatly appreciated by myself and those lurkers who are reading up and perhaps considering entering the AD realm. I want this thread to encourage rather than discourage the interest of newcomers.
Best wishes all SM.
WE know what AD is, we have RoSPA gold and IAM first masters etc, or some do, I have none of these, my last test I was predicted a first on the pre test, the examiner had other ideas, although when I saw his reaction to the drive, I could see why, I didn't drive my best and was nervous, he had also invigilated an exam at my daughter's school the day before, my daughter had pink hair at the time and he was a class 1 police, he'd recognised the name, it's a rare one and said she was one of the better mannered of them etc, blah blah, anyway we've been through that and had time now to polish what we had. That's what this thread is about! Here we discuss our own beliefs, methods, techniques whatever we want to call them. There's no right or wrong in this, we are different, for example I'm very good at not breaking anything, years of driving customers cars with faults, prestige cars, imagine a Ferrari Dino with hardly any brakes, from Blackpool to Cheshire. Changing gear in a car with a broken clutch, rather than replace it roadside, yes my employers had brought a clutch kit and tools with them, trying to tow a trailer with a '73 wedge Mustang on it with a worn clutch pressure plate, dragging is a symptom of pressure plate wear, whereas slipping is friction plate wear, for anyone who doesn't know.
So 30 odd years on at 46 I'm not a beginner, I buy and sell cars and 4x4s and restore classic cars and landrovers, although I 'work' in the conservation industry, apart from collecting a few royalties from my work a few years ago that still keeps giving. I do advocate the old school 'system' IPSGA as it's now called, it has served me well, if I get drowsy on the 600 mile journey I regularly do at 50 in a landrover pulling a car trailer, I'll go into commentary and my drive sharpens, or so it seems, maybe it's psychological but I sharpen up...A high point has been getting a 1 for commentary from a class 1, I used no stock phrases whatsoever although he did write 'continuous commentary' on the test sheet, the swine! Glory days.
The future of Advanced Driving, well, a lot of people have been studying and practising this driving malarkey for some time. Little is written on the subject and a lot feel that some of the old methods used by the big clubs is in need of an update, although 'club' isn't the right word, these organisations IAM RoSPA and others are at the cutting edge of driver training, their belief is that further training can lead to improved safety on the roads and who but a fool, wouldn't want that? I am a supporter. I think we all agree that as long as what we do is always safe and we pose no risk to others on the road we are doing ok and our methods and systems are sound.
Tom Topper said 'Bow out through a hedge backwards rather than have a head on' he called it a 'point of honour' I think he was saying that if you're gonna lark about, make sure you're not where you're gonna hurt anyone else. Pretty good advise, I've always favoured an easy conscience.
In my own driving I leave a lot of drivers for dead, in a non turbo diesel landrover! Simply on account of my sign awareness. Bgol has it's place in drilling in to a driver the need to always be aware of what you're doing, it's always been the case that if you state in commentary that you are going to overlap it is fine and considered as good forward planning, it's about the forward planning phase, it's a bit like the trick question 'what was the last sign you saw?' What that trick can do for your sign awareness! Good stuff. And in the same way that we learn continuously throughout our career there is good stuff out there, and here is where it collects, a pool of knowledge which we can all dip into.
The system, steering, vehicle control, observation, hazard perception, cockpit/vehicle checks, mechanics and maintenance, the driver, benefits, downsides, pros, cons, driving LGVs, PSVs, Chauffeuring, minicabbing, licencing, laws, insurance, MOTs, everything driving related, it is all welcome here in this thread and nothing is OT.
So, the esteemed group that is the AD section of PH, if you're bored and there isn't any threads you feel like sticking your oar into, post something into this one, your knowledge, advise, experiences, ideas and theories are wanted and will be viewed with keen interest and greatly appreciated by myself and those lurkers who are reading up and perhaps considering entering the AD realm. I want this thread to encourage rather than discourage the interest of newcomers.
Best wishes all SM.
Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Saturday 18th January 21:18
MC Bodge said:
only 50?
Bodge, as in years, not mph!Actually I'm 46, I only said 'approaching 50'...
Anyway Bodge what are you saying buddy? You thought I was EVEN older than that?
Please leave something in here when you get a free moment, some input here from your good self will be greatly appreciated!.
Best wishes.
0a said:
Thank you for your post. I may well do this. I went for a drive with a senior ex special branch guy in his 80s m535 and was very impressed with the smoothness of his driving - aside from the speed, his control of the car was incredible. This is what I lack. Would all advanced driving courses help with old, rwd cars? For example in the wet I take a very conservative approach in my e23 BMW, I would like to know how best to drive it safely (not to increase the speed, but to increase my comfort).
You are very welcome, thank YOU for returning to the thread.I have been fortunate enough to have been on the receiving end of some very good quality driving too! I have to say that I find it beautiful. Smooth gearchanges, steering and a well balanced vehicle in the bends are some of the hallmarks of an AD.
I think you are being very sensible adopting a conservative approach to cornering in the wet with your rwd car. As I said before, from some of the things you say I think you are already in a good position and would do well on an AD course.
I would, in fact think that you may be able to get an observer that has a rwd vehicle, you could always enquire with your local group if there is anyone, I think some of the BM models are popular within AD circles. I myself love driving rwd (I often restore old American cars, I probably average one a year) and do like the extra fun that can be had with rwd, imo rwd requires considerably more skill than fwd. I'd have a look at AD training, whether rwd or not the observers usually have very good vehicle control and a lot of the training will see you in good stead with your own car, people sometimes assume that it's all about going slow, trust me it isn't! The progress rate of an IAM driver may be surprising! The increased confidence in your own ability will I'm sure be a boon. I would point out though that there will be little in terms of Limit-Handling etc, that is out of the IAM or RoSPA realm, but may be something to pursue at a later date, that sort of training will be very much more costly though, but may be something to follow on with, other people here know more about that sort of training than I though, and will surely pick up on this and may offer some advice at some point. Either way IAM/RoSPA will be a good starting point.
Also, and some of my pals won't believe what I'm about to say, there is a forum called ADUK, if you don't know of that it may be well worth a look, a lot of enthusiasts gather there and a lot of discussion on things like Limit-Handling and other sporty techniques are discussed there by some very talented drivers, a lot of whom are present in this thread, it might be well worth a look, they can tell you more about that kind of training than I.
http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum//index.php
Thanks again for your interest and please let me know what you decide. Have a look at ADUK and there will be links there to your local IAM or RoSPA RoADAR groups. Oh and if you join up there tell 'em Separation Master sent you! No I'm not on commission! btw it's free to join same as 'ere.
Best wishes and good to hear from you again, updates will be appreciated!
0a said:
I have a mandated holiday in March so I will take you up on this challenge.
Excellent stuff!0a said:
As an example I got beeped several weeks back by a chap I had passed on the motorway when I pulled back into the lane to my left. He was in my blind spot (I had checked the mirrors) but had speeded up - my fault, I was too comfortable regarding "I passed him, I'm going faster" so I checked my mirrors and pulled in with little thought: clearly too little thought. What should I have done - not in this situation, but in a general way to avoid future conflict- after all anyone can speed up in a lane and end up in your blind spot.
A 'Left shoulder check' would have greatly assisted you there, often a left mirror check isn't enough, a left shoulder check will reveal what is lurking in your blindspot to the left, would have enabled you to asses the situation better, knowing his position you'd have then carried on a little further in lane before tucking in front of that car. Very useful at the approach to hazards on your left such as parked vehicles or a left turn for example too, helps just to make sure that a cyclist hasn't crept up alongside you into your blindspot on urban roads.Hope that helps.
0a said:
I'd agree here, and I now do such a check, but it would be great to have a review covering other areas of my driving that I've got lazy with over the few hundred thousand miles I have driven. I use it as a clear example of poor driving on my part, and an example where changing my habits could make me safer - I hope recognition is the start of becoming a better driver!
As stated earlier if you're recognising failings and correcting them and feeling you may have got a tad lazy, then you are well better than average as a great many drivers just laugh at mistakes, don't correct them or pay any heed to them and just carry on driving on auto pilot.I reckon AD training is going to be right up your street. While in some threads I may be critical about certain things, I will always recommend first stage AD training ie: IAM/RoSPA. And I'm not a member currently or on commission (I wish I was) but I am a driver who can see the benefits right across the board. Go for it my good friend!
As an aside to that, there may be a downside as I have discovered...Your mates and your wife, once you've passed your AD test, may insist that you ALWAYS do the driving! (Even though if you're like me you NEVER criticise or offer any comment)
Only downside I've seen!Toltec said:
A while to go yet then lad, I've only got as many months left as you have years!
Hiya Dad! That IS good news for me, I feel youthful now in comparison.
I'm still a pup!
Hey Toltec, I blinked at 21 and when I opened my eyes, I was 40...is this normal? I still feel 21, apart from when I wake up.
On a slightly more depressing note I still have loads of stuff I want to do, and so little time in which to do it!
Best wishes bud!
stevesingo said:
When passing on a multi-lane carriageway at motorway speeds, I will wait for the vehicle being passes to appear in my rear view mirror before attempting to re-enter the nearside lane. Only when I see then in the rear view mirror will I check the nearside mirror/look over shoulder, before indicating and returning to the nearside. If this nearside mirror/over shoulder check is not done, it is possible for the space you want to be in to become occupied, not by the vehicle you have just passes, as you can see them in your rear view, but by another unseen vehicle perhaps moving to the mid lane from the inside, whilst you are trying to move to the mid lane form the outside.
This ensures you have given some braking distance to the vehicle being overtaken.
Thanks for adding this. Nicely put.This ensures you have given some braking distance to the vehicle being overtaken.
I like the part about giving some braking distance to the other vehicle very much.
Best wishes.
Reading around on PH a little I notice a little bit of confusion over motorway on-slips. I'm a bit confused, myself. Some have the view that a slip has to be treated as a give way, the HC does say that traffic on motorway has priority over traffic on the slip. I haven't particularly had any trouble merging myself, but admit that this was always going to be my planned approach should I ever have experienced any difficulty in very heavy conditions, being very mindful of any following vehicles of course. Others have the view that it is acceptable to drive along the hard-shoulder in order to attempt to merge a little further on. The people with the latter view, when questioned on the legality of this did state that they were given this advice by a traffic bobby. I always thought that to drive on the HS was illegal other than in an emergency or if told to by a bobby. It just illustrates the point that I don't know it all and am uncertain on things sometimes, for example, if a bobby told them to merge via the HS in the pub or at a driving class, then does that qualify for the exception to the rule, and make it legal? Or does a bobby have to be there in person, at the time of driving as it were, say at the scene of an accident or similar, for the rule to apply?
Does that make sense? Hope so...
Sometimes the HC can be ambiguous. On the one hand it says you should not get closer to the vehicle ahead than the stopping distance for the speed you are going, which at 70 is roughly a soccer pitch length or an approximately 4 second gap if you use the countdown marker method to gauge it, on the following page it says that on fast roads you should use the 2 second rule, although it does state that as a minimum it is substantially less in terms of distance than the stopping distance it recommended. I do try to add a little into my gap depending on the vehicle I'm driving and prefer the idea of 4 seconds or more to 2 at 70. At the end of the day though I have the choice to drive in lane 1 if there may be a danger of inconveniencing anyone else by making a larger gap.
Some people consider it good manners and responsible driving to move from lane 1 to lane 2 on the approach to an on-slip if conditions allow, in order to make life easier for drivers merging into lane 1. Again this has been my approach. I have heard it said that to do so encourages the mistaken belief, in adjoining drivers, that it is obligatory to move over for them, which it isn't, and to encourage that belief may be dangerous.
I'm not taking issue with any of these points. I can't say categorically on any of them, I can only say what I have thought up to now, which is only really my interpretation. I think driving literature can be ambiguous at times, and may be open to interpretation. All well and good as long as it's legal, I wouldn't commit to anything I was unsure of in terms of safety and legality though. But again could be my interpretation of illegal or not. A lot of what I read here makes me think is the only thing I can say with any certainty.
Best wishes all.
Does that make sense? Hope so...
Sometimes the HC can be ambiguous. On the one hand it says you should not get closer to the vehicle ahead than the stopping distance for the speed you are going, which at 70 is roughly a soccer pitch length or an approximately 4 second gap if you use the countdown marker method to gauge it, on the following page it says that on fast roads you should use the 2 second rule, although it does state that as a minimum it is substantially less in terms of distance than the stopping distance it recommended. I do try to add a little into my gap depending on the vehicle I'm driving and prefer the idea of 4 seconds or more to 2 at 70. At the end of the day though I have the choice to drive in lane 1 if there may be a danger of inconveniencing anyone else by making a larger gap.
Some people consider it good manners and responsible driving to move from lane 1 to lane 2 on the approach to an on-slip if conditions allow, in order to make life easier for drivers merging into lane 1. Again this has been my approach. I have heard it said that to do so encourages the mistaken belief, in adjoining drivers, that it is obligatory to move over for them, which it isn't, and to encourage that belief may be dangerous.
I'm not taking issue with any of these points. I can't say categorically on any of them, I can only say what I have thought up to now, which is only really my interpretation. I think driving literature can be ambiguous at times, and may be open to interpretation. All well and good as long as it's legal, I wouldn't commit to anything I was unsure of in terms of safety and legality though. But again could be my interpretation of illegal or not. A lot of what I read here makes me think is the only thing I can say with any certainty.
Best wishes all.
SK425 said:
If you're talking about the Short Slip Roads thread I was one of the posters who mentioned the option of continuing onto the hard shoulder and I didn't get that advice from a traffic bobby (although I've no reason to doubt the poster who said they did). No need to wrestle with dilemmas about receiving advice from the police in the pub - of course that's not going to make the illegal legal! The point being made was simply that, illegal though it is, exceptionally it could be the best option.
And what johnao said.
Nicely put SK, yes put that like makes perfect sense. I'm not taking issue with it, just wanted to prompt some discussion on it.And what johnao said.
Thank you SK for this input!
Best wishes.
johnao said:
My advice is... read everything there is to read... listen to everyone who has an opinion on the subject... then, use common sense and make up your own mind.
Good advice johnao, I do read a lot of threads and get a lot out of it.Edited by johnao on Thursday 23 January 16:07
Best wishes johnao.
waremark said:
When you have been on the hard shoulder for a legitimate reason, and are ready to leave, the advice in the HWC is to build up speed on the hard shoulder before rejoining the main carriageway. Surely therefore if you did have to come to a halt at the end of the slip this same advice should apply - and maybe you could consider it to be an emergency! Personally, I don't think this has ever happened to me - I have had much more difficulty joining dual carriageways where long slips are not always provided.
Another good point well made. Needs must and that kind of thing. It is something I would now consider if I got in any difficulty. I haven't experienced difficulty with this as yet which is why I hadn't given it much thought or come to a decision on it. Short slips, yes, especially those uphill slips with little view to the right until you're very close to the carriageway, I can think of a couple locally like that. This is now something I'd consider for sure, I'd have never hesitated if I was about to get rear-ended.Pulling out of a layby onto a busy dual carriageway can be a dodgy situation also.
All the points illustrated on this subject have made good sense.
Thanks for this input. Best wishes waremark.
7mike said:
Quite a few posts over the years have discussed the comparative merits of vehicle control skills (limit handling/skid control etc.) in advanced training, with one or two here quite vociferous in that it should be included. This thread seems as good as any to post this link & I'd be interested in the views of any who can find the time to have a read through.
http://www.irfnews.org/wp-content/uploads/IRF-DBET...
It is American so don't complain when you see they've spelt LICENCE wrong
Thanks very much for this link 7Mike, I for one hadn't seen it and appreciate you putting it in the thread. I will have to read it through a couple of times for it all to sink in.http://www.irfnews.org/wp-content/uploads/IRF-DBET...
It is American so don't complain when you see they've spelt LICENCE wrong
Best wishes.
vonhosen said:
We've covered this ground many times both here & ADUK.
Hi Von, I appreciated it even if it was, for some, repetition. My not being a current ADUK member I hadn't seen it previously. Also when discussing these topics there is bound to be some repetition, which imo mightn't be a bad thing.Best wishes Von.
alexisn said:
Have to say that I have always considered the IAM badge pretentious nonsense. If the driving test is basic the presumably anyone with a years experience is relatively advanced. Surely you don't still shuffle the wheel? The most important thing is the accrual of experience that principally is why accidents mostly involve younger drivers. The driving test is a joke, driver training should involve a few hours of simulator training where the trainee can be exposed to more than a three point turn and a bit of reversing. Bad weather, night driving, country lanes with tractors, children running out, slippery conditions etc, etc can all be demonstrated / experienced. Easily done in this day of simulators.
Strongly disagree with this viewpoint. The IAM is certainly not a joke, the training is pretty demanding imo and takes driving to a much higher level than just having a years post DSA test trial and error learning with zero structure. It's a well known fact that most drivers develop bad-habits and poor road-manners etc post DSA and slip into using methods that are unsound and in many cases dangerous.When you refer to 'shuffling' are you talking about pull-push steering? If so then done properly what is known as 'big-bite pull-push' is very different from shuffling the wheel with small inputs shuffling around the ten-two position. Proper pull-push imo means large inputs between the twelve and six positions. I understand that in the states they call this shuffle steering, but the general definition of shuffling here will be normal pull-push or 'feeding the wheel' which imo is greatly preferable to the one hand on the top of the wheel while the other hand nurses the gear-lever even when not intending a gear change, which I believe is the method most often used by drivers once they have passed the DSA. Whatever steering method is advocated, and it is becoming more acceptable to use alternatives to pull-push within AD, it is always going to be a two handed method that is considered preferable.
Whilst I greatly appreciate any input into this thread I started, I do wonder if yours is a serious post or one meant to be controversial just to wind people here up.
Regarding your 'year of driving' post DSA test, I'm fine with that if it means driving to DSA test standard at all times, but tbh how many people do that?
To me it is the discipline instilled into the individuals' drive that AD training brings that is very worthwhile. The badge itself is a subtle reminder to the driver that these standards of safety and responsibility must be adhered to at all times.
Best wishes.
Also imo using driving simulators is a poor alternative to actual on-road in-vehicle training, especially when it comes to thinks like bad conditions and slippery surfaces as you describe.
mph1977 said:
these are valid points and i would be interested to know if alex has actually done any advanced training ...
there is a valid criticism that the IAM is a badge for life vs the revalidation required by RoSPA and other AD organisatios and various revlaidation / check drive arrangements in Emergency services / military settings.
I know what you mean with this, but surely once a person has done IAM they are going to use the techniques taught in their driving from that point onward. That is what I have always done, I'm a lapsed RoSPA member myself and went to IAM years later to just check my validity and am pleased to say that my drive was up to IAM standard on the first observed run. I understand that some may go back to bad habits after a while but then they are not driving to advanced standard any longer. Not only that but an IAM member can book a re-test at any time if they feel they need it, I can accept though that some may not do this.there is a valid criticism that the IAM is a badge for life vs the revalidation required by RoSPA and other AD organisatios and various revlaidation / check drive arrangements in Emergency services / military settings.
Best wishes.
Cliftonite said:
I have found the whole IAM experience enjoyable, helpful and extremely rewarding. The skills gained / enhanced through this training could well have even saved my life as I have managed to avoid several incidents (using observation and forward planning) that may have caused me to come a cropper otherwise.
Very much agree Cliftonite, I think a lot of us could say that same thing if we're honest.Best wishes.
vonhosen said:
Or alternatively people could do what the IAM want to see for the test & then go back to an alternative they prefer (that they don't consider to be a bad habit in any way shape or form).
Had to laugh VH, I could have predicted this response from you more or less word for word!However, yes I accept there is truth in your comment! Take out and use the bits you feel are of value and those areas that are of little value, bin. Yep makes sense and no argument from me.
Best wishes Von!
ETA: Actually Von, apart from the obvious (PP, separation) what, if any, of the other parts of the training would you abandon? Purely out of curiosity. Are there any other areas you consider unnecessary to continue using post-test?
Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Sunday 2nd February 20:32
waremark said:
But hopefully retaining a higher level of Observation Anticipation and Planning, a good attitude to safety and good judgment of what is safe.
Agreed. Actually WM, apart from the obvious (PP, separation) what, if any, of the other parts of the training would you abandon? Purely out of curiosity. Are there any other areas you consider unnecessary to continue using post-test?Best wishes.
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