Hands Placement on Steering Wheel /Track Technique

[StressedDave]

LFAwhoosh said:

Usually it's not about 'what works for them' but more about what has worked for possibly the thousands of students they have taught previously in their track driving careers. 'New' techniques are for the Rohrl's and Senna's to experiment with - not someone on their first trackday(!) Awful advice.

Therefore, on the same basis, I presume that you only use pull-push steering whilst driving everyday... after all it something taught by instructors that has worked for countless thousands of drivers.

[johnao]

R_U_LOCAL said:

... If you try pulling the wheel down at the start of a turn you'll usually naturally apply a pendulum effect, which is why the Police, IAM etc, recommend pull-push.

You can steer correctly with rotational steering, but it requires a little more concentration and practise, particularly if you like to sit with a straight-arm posture. Straight-arm driving requires the steering input to come more from the shoulder, whereas sitting with arms bent means the steering input comes more from the wrists. If you steer from the shoulder, it's less sensitive, and can be rougher.

I like the pendulum analogy.

However, I can't help thinking you're confusing "rotational" steering with "fixed-grip", aka "fixed-input" steering.

The current edition of "Roadcraft", page 113, states, inter-alia, "make changes in direction smoothly and gradually. Make small changes in direction by turning the steering wheel without altering your hand hold. Your hands should not pass the twelve o'clock position". "Roadcraft" does not name this technique; but those who advocate its use know it as... "fixed-grip", aka "fixed-input".

"Rotational" steering is something quite different as explained in Roadcraft on page 116. "Rotational" in essence is a direct alternative to "pull-push" where a sharp turn is required. It is recommended by "Roadcraft", (page 116), for "more acute turns (requiring more than 120 degrees of steering wheel turn)..."

Just a thought.

[james_gt3rs]

But doesn't fixed input allow you to go beyond 12 o'clock?

[johnao]

james_gt3rs said:

But doesn't fixed input allow you to go beyond 12 o'clock?

No, not really; not for road driving. If you need to go beyond 12 o'clock it'll be because the bend is fairly sharp, that'll mean speed is relatively slow and pull-push or rotational would probably be more appropriate.

[james_gt3rs]

johnao said:

james_gt3rs said:

But doesn't fixed input allow you to go beyond 12 o'clock?

No, not really; not for road driving. If you need to go beyond 12 o'clock it'll be because the bend is fairly sharp, that'll mean speed is relatively slow and pull-push or rotational would probably be more appropriate.

Works for me. E.g. coming up to roundabout to turn right, hands at quarter to three. Keep them there, turn in half a turn of lock then take it off again, no fuss.

Wouldn't work in all cars obviously!

[johnao]

james_gt3rs said:

johnao said:

james_gt3rs said:

But doesn't fixed input allow you to go beyond 12 o'clock?

No, not really; not for road driving. If you need to go beyond 12 o'clock it'll be because the bend is fairly sharp, that'll mean speed is relatively slow and pull-push or rotational would probably be more appropriate.

Works for me. E.g. coming up to roundabout to turn right, hands at quarter to three. Keep them there, turn in half a turn of lock then take it off again, no fuss.

Wouldn't work in all cars obviously!

If you're ok with that, then fine.

Your question was concerned with fixed-input "allowing" one to go beyond 12 O'clock. Clearly there's nothing to stop the hands going past 12 O'clock, as you rightly point out. My opinion, and indeed most advocates of fixed-input steering that I've discussed this with, reflects, in general, that of Roadcraft, page 113,... "Your hands should not pass the twelve o'clock position".

[waremark]

james_gt3rs said:

johnao said:

james_gt3rs said:

But doesn't fixed input allow you to go beyond 12 o'clock?

No, not really; not for road driving. If you need to go beyond 12 o'clock it'll be because the bend is fairly sharp, that'll mean speed is relatively slow and pull-push or rotational would probably be more appropriate.

Works for me. E.g. coming up to roundabout to turn right, hands at quarter to three. Keep them there, turn in half a turn of lock then take it off again, no fuss.

Wouldn't work in all cars obviously!

And if you need to change the indicator?

[james_gt3rs]

waremark said:

And if you need to change the indicator?

Generally if I'm turning that much it will be a very low speed roundabout so it's safe to change grip if I need to. To be perfectly honest I only indicate left when coming off a big roundabout with lots of exits - and on those I'll only need a quarter turn of lock so I have no problem in taking my left hand off the wheel for a second. On a small roundabout where I need more lock I just let the indicator cancel itself.

I'm not saying my way is the best way, it's just what I like to do, and gives me the smoothest steering. I used to use pull push in my old car as that had a slow rack... but in my current car I used fixed input most of the time, and rotational steering for very low speed turns (parking, mini roundabouts etc).

[LordGrover]

In ye olden dayes... click.

[waremark]

james_gt3rs said:

waremark said:

And if you need to change the indicator?

Generally if I'm turning that much it will be a very low speed roundabout so it's safe to change grip if I need to. To be perfectly honest I only indicate left when coming off a big roundabout with lots of exits - and on those I'll only need a quarter turn of lock so I have no problem in taking my left hand off the wheel for a second. On a small roundabout where I need more lock I just let the indicator cancel itself.

I'm not saying my way is the best way, it's just what I like to do, and gives me the smoothest steering. I used to use pull push in my old car as that had a slow rack... but in my current car I used fixed input most of the time, and rotational steering for very low speed turns (parking, mini roundabouts etc).

No particular disagreement with that - just pointing out that I consider whether I am likely to want to use indicators before choosing what method of steering to use on a roundabout.

[Variomatic]

LordGrover said:

In ye olden dayes... click.

Couldn't help snickering a little at the advice in the last post of that thread:

"Anyway book yourself on an airfield driver training day and have a play. Catching the skid isn't too hard, its realising when its time to unwind (change in steering weight+feel) and doing it quickly+smoothly enough."

which appeared to be aimed at Ian Stewart, who was probably applying and unwinding opposite lock before he was born