Cornering and pushing to limit (+overcome fear of doing so)

[nakedsnake]

Hey guys,

how do you know that you pushed your car to its limits? How do you know how fast can you go round bends - i.e. being aware that your car can still perfectly handle that situation? In fact, if I knew its limits, I could go even faster, more smoothly and probably without breaking.

I like to drive safe, but fast and when there is an amazing road with bends, I'd like to have fun. But it is this inner fear or something, that doesn't let me drive throught a bend as fast as I want to. I always get a bit scared and slow down.
Thanks for tips.

[james_gt3rs]

Save it for the track! There's not much space to sort it out on the road even if you are a driving god.

[Rick448]

Better still get some off road instruction where you can do this away from other vehicles unlike on the track. I'd recommend Don Palmer. You will find the limits of your vehicle as well as your driving. Not cheap but we'll worth it in my experience.

[Strangely Brown]

nakedsnake said:

In fact, if I knew its limits, I could go even faster, more smoothly and probably without breaking.

The majority of bends on rural roads in this country are limited by vision, not the capabilities of the car or driver. If you want to push for the latter rather than the former then you might well end up breaking [sic].

[Benbay001]

Strangely Brown said:

The majority of bends on rural roads in this country are limited by vision, not the capabilities of the car or driver.

Always this.

[SK425]

Work on your vision - reading bends, reading the limit point, all the other hazards that are around. A lot of the time it's vision, not the limits of the car or your ability to handle it that constrains your speed, so if you want to feel you got the best you could out of that fun section you just drove, improving your observation and the link between speed and vision will probably give you the biggest benefit. Be prepared to discover that there might be some points you need to go slower than you used to as well as some points where you can go faster though .

But yes, as someone already said, if you want to learn where the limits are and what it feels like, get some off road instruction. But don't expect to find many places on the road where you can feel that, or enough space on the road to reliably be able to gather it all up if you were daft enough to lose it.

[MC Bodge]

For free, try driving on snow, Wet grass or gravel to get a feel for what happens when the car slides. Skid car driving sessions are good too. You don't need to spend hundreds/thousands of pounds on the best instructors the world has ever seen.

As others have said, you need to have plenty of room and be able to see what is around you if you are trying to find the limits. Not ideal if other people are around or there are things to crash into.

I'm not being all holier than thou as I've learned from 'experiences' in the past, some of which resulted in damage to bodywork and some didn't... Take care and at least be aware.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 29th May 18:53

[MC Bodge]

Ps. Drive smoothly

[R0G]

Bends are limited by the limit of vision point, the posted speed limit and of course the road conditions at the time

Matching the limit point in a NSL is something I have been 'teaching' today

Are you near Leicester?

[7mike]

Information phase- take, use, give.

Anyone else had a look at the Ops profile & posting history

[R0G]

Deffo not near Leicester !

[SVS]

I'd say he's not near Leicester. Though perhaps he might enjoy the drive over.

[nakedsnake]

Thank you for your valuable advices I am definitely looking forward to winter. I already have some experiences with RWD car, but last winter was so mild there hadn't been almost any snow on the roads. :-/
I've bought another car this spring, BMW E46 330d, so it behaves little differently than petrol E36 323i I had before. Bigger, heavier, but still it's very well balanced car (almost 50:50 weight distribution), so it's quite sure in the bends. I am still learning how to use the torque and turbo (lag) in my favour. Gearing is different as well. I could do ~140 kph in 323i in 3rd gear, but with 330d, gears are much shorter and I have to shift more often (if I want to use all the power). Biggest problem for me is suspension. On E36 I had M-Packet suspension while on 330d I have stock suspension. I don't care too much, it's more useful on our devastated roads (In Czech Republic, roads are rubbish), it is more comfortable. But when I corner hard, the body starts to roll and I automatically let off gas pedal, because it feels awkward and insecure. I am somehow not able to feel car's stability through my torso and lower back.

I'd love to come to UK. You have amazing B roads, countryside, many special car manufacturers (TVR, Caterham, Radical, Noble, Morgan, Lotus,...) It's petrolhead's dream to live there! Also no speed limit on Isle of Man... :-D

[witko999]

It really isn't!

[deltashad]

Stick to the rule of slowly in and accelerate out, you'll notice when the car starts feeling unsettled and be able to control it.
Go in too quickly and there's no going back.

[7mike]

nakedsnake said:

I'd love to come to UK. You have amazing B roads, countryside, many special car manufacturers (TVR, Caterham, Radical, Noble, Morgan, Lotus,...) It's petrolhead's dream to live there! Also no speed limit on Isle of Man... :-D

You may find these videos useful; I get out on these roads quite often in the 7; great fun but not the sort of place for 'trail & error' learning of limit handling. Best save that for the airfield sites etc.

http://www.uptwospeed.co.uk/pages/videos.htm

[Craig85]

nakedsnake said:

I always get a bit scared and slow down.
Thanks for tips.

Good! The only time this would be a problem would be on a track. On the road with other road users and their lives at risk you don't want to lose control, I have when I was younger and I'm actually pleased I did and only hurt myself. This taught me a valuable lesson and knowing firsthand what happens when you exceed the limit, (I don't mean breaking traction and drifting - I mean proper instant unrecoverable loss of control with no room to get it back!) acts as a kind of driving conscience for me.

The guys are right saying you drive to a line of vision, some people talk of the vanishing point, you are ususally slowing whilst the distance you can see to be clear and stop safely in is reducing and accelerating as it is increasing. I actually had a passenger comment that I was quicker around a load of bends than him (visible ones) but he was proud that he claimed to be quicker around a certain bend, (blind one) - the bend was not the problem, the sight line was. When I was younger I took a racing line, then I learnt to take a line of vision, using the road to increase this, now I take an 'avoid the bleeding potholes' line. It is nothing like a racing line or a line of vision sometimes!

Having said all this, on an open corner with only yourself around and a bit of space you should be able to acclerate into, through and out of a corner. Particularly if you are smooth and the entry speed is not ridiculous. Build this up as you go, if you are smooth I think you would be amazed how fast your car will corner, I am not going to name speeds but roundabouts I held on for dear life around just after passing my test I could double those speeds round them now (if it was a track) without even squeeling the tyres.

Stay safe, but this is pistonheads, I'm not going to tell you to drive slowly, just build upto speed, and don't get lured into a false sense of security along roads you think you know. A horse around a blind bend that has never been there before or some spilt diesel will completely change things...

[JDMDrifter]

Anticipation is a big part, settle the car before the corner and accelerate out. If you don't anticipate the corner you'll probably end up in the nearest tree. Also be smooth, if you flail around you may feel like a driving god but really you're probably about to have a smash.

[MatrixXXx]

Follow your instincts, if you feel unsafe ffs slow down. you do not want to find the limit of your car as if you cross it , you will come off the road and possibly take someone else with you.

The best driver in the world can only be 50% safe, there are a lot of terrible drivers out the ...Be safe.

as others have said the only safe place to go fast is on a track.

[Johnniem]

OP, here' some good advice (IMO). If you are practicing your speedy cornering technique and you realise that your car wont make it around the corner due to excessive speed and understeer, then please do not, repeat, do not take your foot off the accelerator pedal without depressing the clutch. If you do not press the clutch down then you will end up backwards into whatever the roadside offers. Trees, pylon posts, hedges, people, other cars....the list is pretty much endless. If you depress the clutch at the same time as lifting off the accelerator then you will coast around the corner with ease and in total safety.

As you were......