Roundabout Indicating Mystery
Discussion
silverfoxcc said:
Ok, Head above parapet!! etc....
So, I'm on a dual carriageway intending to turn right (3rd exit). As I appear to traffic at the 12o'clock position (I was hidden by a load of flora sponsored by the local garden centre) I will assume oncoming traffic will not pull out as they would always wait until they see me indicate my intention to exit at either exit 2 or exit 3? At best, it's discourteous driving, at worst fecking dangerous!
silverfoxcc said:
Ok, Head above parapet!!
I was told at a well known manufacturersd chauffeurs course to
Get in the correct lane
If taking the first exit indicae left on approach and keep indicating left until you exit
If taking any other exit DO NOT INDICATE until you are at the exit before the one you wish to take THEN indicate left
The reasoning behind this is
You have precedence on the roundabout and no indication whilst you are on it should alert the 'gamblers' who try to get in front of you if you do indicate right
By only indicating left on exit, you are not giving ambiguous signals.
How many times have you seen
drivers indicating right whilst turning left
And those indicating left and going all the way round?
One signal lets the guy whose Exit You are taking that it MAY be safe for him to emerge onto the roundabot.nthing mote nothing less
Oh and show me in the HC or Roadcraft where it specifically says Keep indicating right when going around a roundabout
Ducks down
Ducks down
That's quite a dangerous practise. Common, but dangerous and in contravention of the Highway Code. Here's the HC section on roundabouts that you asked for:I was told at a well known manufacturersd chauffeurs course to
Get in the correct lane
If taking the first exit indicae left on approach and keep indicating left until you exit
If taking any other exit DO NOT INDICATE until you are at the exit before the one you wish to take THEN indicate left
The reasoning behind this is
You have precedence on the roundabout and no indication whilst you are on it should alert the 'gamblers' who try to get in front of you if you do indicate right
By only indicating left on exit, you are not giving ambiguous signals.
How many times have you seen
drivers indicating right whilst turning left
And those indicating left and going all the way round?
One signal lets the guy whose Exit You are taking that it MAY be safe for him to emerge onto the roundabot.nthing mote nothing less
Oh and show me in the HC or Roadcraft where it specifically says Keep indicating right when going around a roundabout
Ducks down
Ducks down
https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/round...
I'm definitely with silverfox on this one.
I agree that if there isn't a signal then I'm not going to assume the car is turning off, so I won't pull out in front of it.
As it appears that around 60% of road users are inept, blind, stupid, untrained or any combination thereof I am going to read the "body language" of other vehicles and give my interpretation of that sort of signal precedence over what actual signals may, or may not, be shown.
It's a bit like the motorway matrix signs - in my experience a good 90% of the time they are "crying wolf" and rather than blindly obey, trust or follow said sign or trafficator signal I'm just going to increase my wariness and make any adjustments accordingly.
To blindly assume that the HC is the absolutely correct way to progress is just as dangerous in some situations and there are some aspects of it that aren't always conducive to allowing the majority of road users to get on with their journey.
The example of a mini roundabout at a small crossroads is a classic. The HC states "All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal..."
So, if its ok for a larger vehicle to cross the painted circle, why shouldn't it be ok for a smaller vehicle to make a turn on the same radius as it would do if there wasn't a roundabout at all?
All the HC needs to really say is that at a small junction, if a roundabout circle is painted on the road, then normal roundabout rules apply ie give way to the right.
I agree that if there isn't a signal then I'm not going to assume the car is turning off, so I won't pull out in front of it.
As it appears that around 60% of road users are inept, blind, stupid, untrained or any combination thereof I am going to read the "body language" of other vehicles and give my interpretation of that sort of signal precedence over what actual signals may, or may not, be shown.
It's a bit like the motorway matrix signs - in my experience a good 90% of the time they are "crying wolf" and rather than blindly obey, trust or follow said sign or trafficator signal I'm just going to increase my wariness and make any adjustments accordingly.
To blindly assume that the HC is the absolutely correct way to progress is just as dangerous in some situations and there are some aspects of it that aren't always conducive to allowing the majority of road users to get on with their journey.
The example of a mini roundabout at a small crossroads is a classic. The HC states "All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal..."
So, if its ok for a larger vehicle to cross the painted circle, why shouldn't it be ok for a smaller vehicle to make a turn on the same radius as it would do if there wasn't a roundabout at all?
All the HC needs to really say is that at a small junction, if a roundabout circle is painted on the road, then normal roundabout rules apply ie give way to the right.
Edited by andyelcomb on Monday 28th July 14:04
RobM77
Thank you for the link, but as i said earlier
Where does it say keep indicating right until you wish to turn off?????
It doesnt, it MAY infer it but it is not specifically mentioned
Whether i indicate going around a roundabout or not, does not lessen or even increase the chances of some numpty trying to pull out in front of me, SMIDSY syndrome
As the HC DOES say to give way to traffic already on the roundabout a signal indicating right is unecessary, and may well have been left of for some time prior, esp when it is still indicating right when the car exits!!!
OK here is a daft road layout question.
You are approaching a T juctn from the bottom of the T
The road is one way from right to left
The only roads off are on the left hand side of the one way system
It is reasonable to indicate right on approaching the one way (where you are instructed to turn left by a traffic sign) and then continue indicating right until the turning before the one you wiish to turn left into?
Thank you for the link, but as i said earlier
Where does it say keep indicating right until you wish to turn off?????
It doesnt, it MAY infer it but it is not specifically mentioned
Whether i indicate going around a roundabout or not, does not lessen or even increase the chances of some numpty trying to pull out in front of me, SMIDSY syndrome
As the HC DOES say to give way to traffic already on the roundabout a signal indicating right is unecessary, and may well have been left of for some time prior, esp when it is still indicating right when the car exits!!!
OK here is a daft road layout question.
You are approaching a T juctn from the bottom of the T
The road is one way from right to left
The only roads off are on the left hand side of the one way system
It is reasonable to indicate right on approaching the one way (where you are instructed to turn left by a traffic sign) and then continue indicating right until the turning before the one you wiish to turn left into?
andyelcomb said:
I'm definitely with silverfox on this one.
I agree that if there isn't a signal then I'm not going to assume the car is turning off, so I won't pull out in front of it.
As it appears that around 60% of road users are inept, blind, stupid, untrained or any combination thereof I am going to read the "body language" of other vehicles and give my interpretation of that sort of signal precedence over what actual signals may, or may not, be shown.
It's a bit like the motorway matrix signs - in my experience a good 90% of the time they are "crying wolf" and rather than blindly obey, trust or follow said sign or trafficator signal I'm just going to increase my wariness and make any adjustments accordingly.
To blindly assume that the HC is the absolutely correct way to progress is just as dangerous in some situations and there are some aspects of it that aren't always conducive to allowing the majority of road users to get on with their journey.
The example of a mini roundabout at a small crossroads is a classic. The HC states "All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal..."
So, if its ok for a larger vehicle to cross the painted circle, why shouldn't it be ok for a smaller vehicle to make a turn on the same radius as it would do if there wasn't a roundabout at all?
All the HC needs to really say is that at a small junction, if a roundabout circle is painted on the road, then normal roundabout rules apply ie give way to the right.
The markings at mini roundabouts are different to larger roundabouts & the wordings in the legislation are subtly different too.I agree that if there isn't a signal then I'm not going to assume the car is turning off, so I won't pull out in front of it.
As it appears that around 60% of road users are inept, blind, stupid, untrained or any combination thereof I am going to read the "body language" of other vehicles and give my interpretation of that sort of signal precedence over what actual signals may, or may not, be shown.
It's a bit like the motorway matrix signs - in my experience a good 90% of the time they are "crying wolf" and rather than blindly obey, trust or follow said sign or trafficator signal I'm just going to increase my wariness and make any adjustments accordingly.
To blindly assume that the HC is the absolutely correct way to progress is just as dangerous in some situations and there are some aspects of it that aren't always conducive to allowing the majority of road users to get on with their journey.
The example of a mini roundabout at a small crossroads is a classic. The HC states "All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal..."
So, if its ok for a larger vehicle to cross the painted circle, why shouldn't it be ok for a smaller vehicle to make a turn on the same radius as it would do if there wasn't a roundabout at all?
All the HC needs to really say is that at a small junction, if a roundabout circle is painted on the road, then normal roundabout rules apply ie give way to the right.
There are requirements in law, not only advice in the HC.
People may make decisions at mini roundabouts based on what is required by you in the legislation as opposed to what you personally think is the best thing to do.
Regarding signalling right, the HC says it pretty clearly. You try taking a basic it advanced test without doing it 
Nobody should rely on only a signal to make a decision, and there should always be a backup plan, but it's good manners to tell people what you're about to do and signalling's very easy! We've just moved house so I'm commuting by car for the first time in years and it amazed me that nobody signalled properly - not one single driver in my 40 minute commute.
Nobody should rely on only a signal to make a decision, and there should always be a backup plan, but it's good manners to tell people what you're about to do and signalling's very easy! We've just moved house so I'm commuting by car for the first time in years and it amazed me that nobody signalled properly - not one single driver in my 40 minute commute.
Noticed it was Hook from the streetview pic, I work there so my take on it is;
The red route you show is the A30 so is more a straight on if going left to right. All roads are single lane so no lane indication needed, just a brief blip of the left hand maybe as you exit it.
There is a pelican crossing just out of the picture on the 1 o clock road outside the garages. Use this one to cross ? There is another one you pointed out on the 6 o clock road and then another on the 10 o clock road. I think these 3 crossings pretty much sort out any pedestrian crossing needed.
Not having a go, just my 10p's worth.
The red route you show is the A30 so is more a straight on if going left to right. All roads are single lane so no lane indication needed, just a brief blip of the left hand maybe as you exit it.
There is a pelican crossing just out of the picture on the 1 o clock road outside the garages. Use this one to cross ? There is another one you pointed out on the 6 o clock road and then another on the 10 o clock road. I think these 3 crossings pretty much sort out any pedestrian crossing needed.
Not having a go, just my 10p's worth.
Farm boy said:
Noticed it was Hook from the streetview pic, I work there so my take on it is;
The red route you show is the A30 so is more a straight on if going left to right. All roads are single lane so no lane indication needed, just a brief blip of the left hand maybe as you exit it.
There is a pelican crossing just out of the picture on the 1 o clock road outside the garages. Use this one to cross ? There is another one you pointed out on the 6 o clock road and then another on the 10 o clock road. I think these 3 crossings pretty much sort out any pedestrian crossing needed.
Not having a go, just my 10p's worth.
I've now moved house, so don't walk this route anymore. However, yes, as I mentioned earlier, walking all the way round to the crossings you mention is the safest way forwards, but that obviously takes time and holds up the traffic when the lights go red. My post was more regarding the mystery of why most people who signal at this roundabout choose to signal left when they're clearly going straight on. I can't see anything ambiguous at all about the roundabout; it's a straight 90 degree four road crossroads type - nothing complicated at all.The red route you show is the A30 so is more a straight on if going left to right. All roads are single lane so no lane indication needed, just a brief blip of the left hand maybe as you exit it.
There is a pelican crossing just out of the picture on the 1 o clock road outside the garages. Use this one to cross ? There is another one you pointed out on the 6 o clock road and then another on the 10 o clock road. I think these 3 crossings pretty much sort out any pedestrian crossing needed.
Not having a go, just my 10p's worth.
silverfoxcc]obM77 said:
Regarding signalling right, the HC says it pretty clearly. You try taking a basic it advanced test without doing it
I did and passed, so did another driver, sort of IAM and bar who did exactly the same thing with another examiner
Blimey - that's a real surprise.I did and passed, so did another driver, sort of IAM and bar who did exactly the same thing with another examiner
RobM77 said:
marshalla said:
They indicate left because it isn't absolutely straight ahead or right, but slightly left of where the car is pointing. They're wrong - but I'll bet that's how the "thought" process goes.
Thanks - I hadn't thought of that.radio man said:
The drivers are not wrong to signal left because as soon as they have crossed the give way lines the have entered the round-a-bout and must signal left when exiting weather or not their exit is more or less straight ahead.
They are indicating left before the exit before the one they are leaving at. i.e. TOO EARLY.marshalla said:
radio man said:
The drivers are not wrong to signal left because as soon as they have crossed the give way lines the have entered the round-a-bout and must signal left when exiting weather or not their exit is more or less straight ahead.
They are indicating left before the exit before the one they are leaving at. i.e. TOO EARLY.The principle involved here is [and, I can't be bothered to read everything to see if anyone's already mentioned it]...
"give a signal if, in your opinion, another road user would benefit - AND - don't give a signal that could mislead or confuse another road user"
radio man said:
The drivers are not wrong to signal left because as soon as they have crossed the give way lines the have entered the round-a-bout and must signal left when exiting weather or not their exit is more or less straight ahead.
Mind you, OP, I think we have the answer to the original question here.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff