Driving in Convoy
Discussion
Does anyone have any tips for driving in Convoy, my brother has just said he wants to drive in convoy, all 200 miles of it, i cant see the point and im inclined to say it wont work and a pointless exercise.
I'm not a huge fan of it for many reasons partly because i'm an independent so and so for starters but other than that it can get irritating when the lead driver is navigating and you haven't a clue where you're going and may make last minute decisions which you have less time to react to, and the lead car may also break speed limits etc and lights changing after the lead car has passed, leading to separation, probably a good thing.
i find it better just to get my own way there, using sat nav (in anger) and arrive at agreed time.
I'm not a huge fan of it for many reasons partly because i'm an independent so and so for starters but other than that it can get irritating when the lead driver is navigating and you haven't a clue where you're going and may make last minute decisions which you have less time to react to, and the lead car may also break speed limits etc and lights changing after the lead car has passed, leading to separation, probably a good thing.
i find it better just to get my own way there, using sat nav (in anger) and arrive at agreed time.
It depends on what roads you're using and who you're convoying with. I do an annual trip to Scotland with fellow car club members. To get there involves a minimum of 300 miles of mostly motorway driving. There is no leader as such. It happens that everyone ends up doing a stint at some point. No issues at all.
Once we get to the Highlands there is usually very little traffic, so separation is hardly ever a problem. If anyone wishes to go at a slower pace they are free to do so. There is never any pressure put on anyone to keep up. We all know what the route is so will end up back together when stopping for photo ops or food.
If the lead car chooses to break speed limits that their business not yours. There is no rule that says you have to do the same and risk the points to show for it.
Once we get to the Highlands there is usually very little traffic, so separation is hardly ever a problem. If anyone wishes to go at a slower pace they are free to do so. There is never any pressure put on anyone to keep up. We all know what the route is so will end up back together when stopping for photo ops or food.
foxtrotmike said:
it can get irritating when the lead driver is navigating and you haven't a clue where you're going and may make last minute decisions which you have less time to react to, and the lead car may also break speed limits etc and lights changing after the lead car has passed, leading to separation, probably a good thing.
I don't get it. How would you not know where you are both going? Also, anybody who has any experience of leading a convoy (whether it's two cars or twenty) knows that if separation occurs you follow the 'Rangers Creed': you don't leave anyone behind. Pull over and wait.If the lead car chooses to break speed limits that their business not yours. There is no rule that says you have to do the same and risk the points to show for it.
Red Devil said:
I don't get it. How would you not know where you are both going? Also, anybody who has any experience of leading a convoy (whether it's two cars or twenty) knows that if separation occurs you follow the 'Rangers Creed': you don't leave anyone behind. Pull over and wait.
If the lead car chooses to break speed limits that their business not yours. There is no rule that says you have to do the same and risk the points to show for it.
We know the destination but we don't know the exact route to take to get there, but in my example neither of us are any more knowledgeable in the route than the other im not sure of the reason for doing it this time but i imagine it maybe so we both arrive together, the route we choose to take is irrelevant.If the lead car chooses to break speed limits that their business not yours. There is no rule that says you have to do the same and risk the points to show for it.
The reason for posting it was one for general advice because i know this issue crops up but i forget to ask for advice.
9 times out of 10, for me its seems to have turned into a race and that bit i hate, i tend to just like to drop back and be last and the pressure is off
foxtrotmike said:
We know the destination but we don't know the exact route to take to get there, but in my example neither of us are any more knowledgeable in the route than the other im not sure of the reason for doing it this time but i imagine it maybe so we both arrive together, the route we choose to take is irrelevant.
If neither of you know the exact route why not plan one then? Google Maps is your friend. 
foxtrotmike said:
9 times out of 10, for me its seems to have turned into a race and that bit i hate, i tend to just like to drop back and be last and the pressure is off
Simple answer - tell your brother that you're not interested in a race. How hard can that be? If you lead, you can set the pace. That said, if he doesn't like it, he can zoom off into the distance. Should you be unable to agree on a mutually acceptable way of driving together, and from what you say it's not your 'thing' anyway, then simply don't do it.You would be amazed what some people do, sister in law and family set off to Bordeaux going via Calais and DIDN'T take a map or mobile phone. Only the car they were with knew they way or where they were going, needless to say within 2 miles of arriving in France they got separated and lost :bang head:
We do quite a bit of convoy driving in a club, is quite simple but individuals have to take responsibility for knowing where they are going and obeying the law, after all they are adults. You can never keep a big group together as towns and junctions get in the way.
With a small group I would agree what you are going to do, speed wise and stops, before starting and I would have a route plan. Having got caught out a couple of times with Google maps and directions, make a note of where you are actually heading too. We got lost in N. Wales when the road was closed and a diversion was in place, we basically just had turn left, right style directions. Won't be making that mistake again.
We do quite a bit of convoy driving in a club, is quite simple but individuals have to take responsibility for knowing where they are going and obeying the law, after all they are adults. You can never keep a big group together as towns and junctions get in the way.
With a small group I would agree what you are going to do, speed wise and stops, before starting and I would have a route plan. Having got caught out a couple of times with Google maps and directions, make a note of where you are actually heading too. We got lost in N. Wales when the road was closed and a diversion was in place, we basically just had turn left, right style directions. Won't be making that mistake again.
I hate being the lead car when the car behind is driving really slow. I'm not talking about having to have it over on its door handles through each corner, I mean when it's an NSL and the following car is doing 45 mph...
I just prefer to drive alone really. I don't have to "carry" someone else, and I don't like to have people "carry" me.
I just prefer to drive alone really. I don't have to "carry" someone else, and I don't like to have people "carry" me.
I've been a rep for a car club and have organised these sorts of things with varying levels of success. First point is, i fthere are more than 20 of you it's courteous to inform the MSA and local BiB.
Beyond that, my advice:
Plan the route, with rest stops every 30 minutes to give the group a fighting chance of staying together, allow for bladders and drinks.
Tell everyone the route
Stick to the route
Have options for likely trouble spots
Take and issue everyone's phone numbers
Make ground rules, make sure everyone agrees before you set off - typically, be courteous, tickets are your own responsibility, no daft overtakes and the like
Don't leave anyone behind
If it's a big trip, split into groups according to desired pace - and maybe have different routes for different groups - sort this out the night before at the latest
On the other hand if it's just you and 'im, and he likes a race - go Top Gear style. Destination, deadline, challenge.
Beyond that, my advice:
Plan the route, with rest stops every 30 minutes to give the group a fighting chance of staying together, allow for bladders and drinks.
Tell everyone the route
Stick to the route
Have options for likely trouble spots
Take and issue everyone's phone numbers
Make ground rules, make sure everyone agrees before you set off - typically, be courteous, tickets are your own responsibility, no daft overtakes and the like
Don't leave anyone behind
If it's a big trip, split into groups according to desired pace - and maybe have different routes for different groups - sort this out the night before at the latest
On the other hand if it's just you and 'im, and he likes a race - go Top Gear style. Destination, deadline, challenge.
goneape said:
I've been a rep for a car club and have organised these sorts of things with varying levels of success.
You left out the most useful item - http://www.twoway-radio.co.uk/motorola%20t60?langu... - the bigger the group, the more you need them. I can imagine. I went to the Nurburgring a few years ago, and I had the only Satnav. My friend lost me in the middle of some roadworks, and then we missed each other at successive rest stops (driving past each other two or three times) until my mobile died, and I'd left my charger at the hotel in Belgium. I then proceeded to drive back to the hotel as quickly as possible so I could charge the phone and call him.
Sensibly, he stopped at the next garage and bought a map, and arrived about fifteen minutes after I did.
If you don't want to say "no", I'd think of a good (fake) reason why you can't leave at the preferred time by quite a wide margin.
Sensibly, he stopped at the next garage and bought a map, and arrived about fifteen minutes after I did.
If you don't want to say "no", I'd think of a good (fake) reason why you can't leave at the preferred time by quite a wide margin.
We occasionally have to do it at work, normally when going through Turkey or Russia although luckily its getting less frequent these days. The first 1 i did had 26 of us and the lead driver on the tour called all the shots and tbh it worked really well. We had to run as 1 big group which looked quite interesting and had 3 police cars as guides to help everything run smoothly and they were good at it.
Basically you had to watch the lorry behind you, and if they started to drop back then you eased up until they caught up. Obviously the guy in front of me would then see i'd eased up, and so on and so forth. On the whole it worked pretty well, and a big plus point was most of us have cb radios which can really help.
We were lucky once we got to St.Petersburg as our police escorts had phoned ahead so that once we left the ring road for the last bit of the drive to the gig they had police at each of the junctions to help us through, even on red lights otherwise it would have been chaos.
We never had to do it again once we were out of Russia so most of us just get on and do our own thing as everyone has their own way of wanting to do the nights drive ahead. On an average run it can be hard getting 3 of us to agree on where to stop for a coffee
Basically you had to watch the lorry behind you, and if they started to drop back then you eased up until they caught up. Obviously the guy in front of me would then see i'd eased up, and so on and so forth. On the whole it worked pretty well, and a big plus point was most of us have cb radios which can really help.
We were lucky once we got to St.Petersburg as our police escorts had phoned ahead so that once we left the ring road for the last bit of the drive to the gig they had police at each of the junctions to help us through, even on red lights
otherwise it would have been chaos.We never had to do it again once we were out of Russia so most of us just get on and do our own thing as everyone has their own way of wanting to do the nights drive ahead. On an average run it can be hard getting 3 of us to agree on where to stop for a coffee
I'm with you foxtrotmike,
convoy driving can be distracting, the following vehicles can loose concentration, the lead vehicle oftan does not allow for traffic lights and complex road junctions, if other vehicles get between the vehicles it can extend the crocodile putting stress on the rear vehicles, if the lead vehicle does not allow for the last vehicle to catch up within the limits you soon get seperated
In the military I used to have to travel in convoys now and again, we had strict rules, and it went well on the whole, but I remember once where driving up the M1 at about 50 mph the lead vehicle driver dozed off, and he started drifting out into lane 2, and then lane 3, the vehicle behind him followed him, as did the next couple, my driver also started to follow him (I was the co driver) if I had not been alert we would also have drifted, all of the drivers in front had just focused on the vehicle in front, and just followed it not concentrating......the braking and hooting of horns, and the realisation of the drivers as to what they were doing, with the wild corrections meant that there were landrovers and trailers swerving all over the motorway, it was amazing that there was not a serious accident. It shook us all up. the droning of cross country tyres on a landrover, the boring nature of the drive, the fact that we were not subject to civie laws on driving whilst tired, and the hours you can drive for, the "co-driver" being asleep/not alert used to sometimes result in vehicles having accidents.
Just for your info I think military convoys still have a system where the front vehicle has a blue flag flying, and the rear vehicle a green flag, they should keep about 50m from each other, have full dipped beams on, and should wink and letch at every good looking woman overtaking!
convoy driving can be distracting, the following vehicles can loose concentration, the lead vehicle oftan does not allow for traffic lights and complex road junctions, if other vehicles get between the vehicles it can extend the crocodile putting stress on the rear vehicles, if the lead vehicle does not allow for the last vehicle to catch up within the limits you soon get seperated
In the military I used to have to travel in convoys now and again, we had strict rules, and it went well on the whole, but I remember once where driving up the M1 at about 50 mph the lead vehicle driver dozed off, and he started drifting out into lane 2, and then lane 3, the vehicle behind him followed him, as did the next couple, my driver also started to follow him (I was the co driver) if I had not been alert we would also have drifted, all of the drivers in front had just focused on the vehicle in front, and just followed it not concentrating......the braking and hooting of horns, and the realisation of the drivers as to what they were doing, with the wild corrections meant that there were landrovers and trailers swerving all over the motorway, it was amazing that there was not a serious accident. It shook us all up. the droning of cross country tyres on a landrover, the boring nature of the drive, the fact that we were not subject to civie laws on driving whilst tired, and the hours you can drive for, the "co-driver" being asleep/not alert used to sometimes result in vehicles having accidents.
Just for your info I think military convoys still have a system where the front vehicle has a blue flag flying, and the rear vehicle a green flag, they should keep about 50m from each other, have full dipped beams on, and should wink and letch at every good looking woman overtaking!
The simplest rule for successful convoy driving is not to car about what the car in front is doing, and just make sure you don't lose touch with the car behind you.
A convoy is forced to travel at the speed of the slowest driver, there's no getting away from that. The best you can do is to establish some principles before you set off. Also remember that if a gap develops, there's no point cruising along at the speed limit waiting for the stragglers to catch up, they will have to go much faster to make up the gap
A convoy is forced to travel at the speed of the slowest driver, there's no getting away from that. The best you can do is to establish some principles before you set off. Also remember that if a gap develops, there's no point cruising along at the speed limit waiting for the stragglers to catch up, they will have to go much faster to make up the gap
Gaspode said:
A convoy is forced to travel at the speed of the slowest driver, there's no getting away from that. The best you can do is to establish some principles before you set off. Also remember that if a gap develops, there's no point cruising along at the speed limit waiting for the stragglers to catch up, they will have to go much faster to make up the gap
If you mean the overall time taken to get from start to finish, I agree with you. Beyond that, no. It doesn't prevent people travelling at their own pace in between. As long as all participants know the pre-planned route, it doesn't matter if separation occurs. Those who want to hare off into the distance can simply wait at the next halt (fuel/photo op/food) for the slower ones to turn up. Nobody is forced to break limits nor travel at a speed with which they are not comfortable.Our club has been doing this on our Highland trips for years without any issues. One time I was 'tail-end Charlie' and got detached because I wanted to take a few pics of some particularly spectacular view en route. It surprising how big a gap can develop in a very short time. I didn't see the rest of the convoy again until the lunch halt. I wasn't going to risk my neck travelling at insane speeds just to catch up (watch any police chase vid to see how quickly they have to go to nullify a head start).
Where a route is ad-hoc (i.e. purely down to the leader) it's up to that person to keep the convoy together and the rule of not losing your 'rear gunner' (or 'daisy chaining' down the line) applies. Anyone using their rear view mirrors correctly will know when contact is lost so it's just a matter of pausing at junctions where turning is needed to reunite the group. The quick merchants can still zoom off into the distance. They just have to be patient and pause briefly from time to time.
I have only ever had one convoy break-up in 8 years when leading using these principles. As the final destination was known to everyone it wasn't a problem for those who could read a map or use a sat-nav. After the split, the stragglers just made their own way there.
Red Devil said:
If you mean the overall time taken to get from start to finish, I agree with you. Beyond that, no. It doesn't prevent people travelling at their own pace in between. As long as all participants know the pre-planned route, it doesn't matter if separation occurs. Those who want to hare off into the distance can simply wait at the next halt (fuel/photo op/food) for the slower ones to turn up. Nobody is forced to break limits nor travel at a speed with which they are not comfortable.
Our club has been doing this on our Highland trips for years without any issues. One time I was 'tail-end Charlie' and got detached because I wanted to take a few pics of some particularly spectacular view en route. It surprising how big a gap can develop in a very short time. I didn't see the rest of the convoy again until the lunch halt. I wasn't going to risk my neck travelling at insane speeds just to catch up (watch any police chase vid to see how quickly they have to go to nullify a head start).
Where a route is ad-hoc (i.e. purely down to the leader) it's up to that person to keep the convoy together and the rule of not losing your 'rear gunner' (or 'daisy chaining' down the line) applies. Anyone using their rear view mirrors correctly will know when contact is lost so it's just a matter of pausing at junctions where turning is needed to reunite the group. The quick merchants can still zoom off into the distance. They just have to be patient and pause briefly from time to time.
I have only ever had one convoy break-up in 8 years when leading using these principles. As the final destination was known to everyone it wasn't a problem for those who could read a map or use a sat-nav. After the split, the stragglers just made their own way there.
I completely agree with everything you say, except that in my book a bunch of people who are following a pre-planned route but wish to travel at their own speed doesn't constitute a 'convoy'. It is, however, a much preferable way to go about things, and is the practice we normally follow.Our club has been doing this on our Highland trips for years without any issues. One time I was 'tail-end Charlie' and got detached because I wanted to take a few pics of some particularly spectacular view en route. It surprising how big a gap can develop in a very short time. I didn't see the rest of the convoy again until the lunch halt. I wasn't going to risk my neck travelling at insane speeds just to catch up (watch any police chase vid to see how quickly they have to go to nullify a head start).
Where a route is ad-hoc (i.e. purely down to the leader) it's up to that person to keep the convoy together and the rule of not losing your 'rear gunner' (or 'daisy chaining' down the line) applies. Anyone using their rear view mirrors correctly will know when contact is lost so it's just a matter of pausing at junctions where turning is needed to reunite the group. The quick merchants can still zoom off into the distance. They just have to be patient and pause briefly from time to time.
I have only ever had one convoy break-up in 8 years when leading using these principles. As the final destination was known to everyone it wasn't a problem for those who could read a map or use a sat-nav. After the split, the stragglers just made their own way there.
By contrast with the Highland trips, all the run outs I put on are ad-hoc. Only the assembly point is disclosed in advance to invitees. The destination is revealed at the start and the route in between is one I have worked out in advance and committed to memory. It is never written down or put into a sat nav, so there is no evidence of any pre-planning. It also means I can be flexible and change things on the fly if circumstances dictate. The downside is it puts the onus entirely on me to ensure the group remains cohesive throughout. I try as far as possible to avoid any built up areas with traffic lights and/or multiple junctions to minimise the likelihood of people becoming separated. As long as everyone uses their mirrors and doesn't lose their 'rear gunner' it works.
Though as I mentioned earlier, two way radios are a very useful additional resource.
Though as I mentioned earlier, two way radios are a very useful additional resource.
Convoys are generally hard work - focusing on not losing the car ahead or behind.
Your mental capacity when driving I have heard likened to a bank balance - you spend a little on everything you think about and you only have so much to spend (brain capacity). If you go overdrawn, you crash. If you are spending brain energy on the convoy, something related to safety will have to lose.
Someone will no doubt comment that they have infinite brain capacity for such a simple thing, but in the real world all our brains have finite "cash balances".
My view, avoid it. Buy sat navs and "see you there" or at designated stop points.
Your mental capacity when driving I have heard likened to a bank balance - you spend a little on everything you think about and you only have so much to spend (brain capacity). If you go overdrawn, you crash. If you are spending brain energy on the convoy, something related to safety will have to lose.
Someone will no doubt comment that they have infinite brain capacity for such a simple thing, but in the real world all our brains have finite "cash balances".
My view, avoid it. Buy sat navs and "see you there" or at designated stop points.
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