"Correct" thing to do in this situation:pedestrian crossings
Discussion
Hi there, new here, and I had a question about pedestrian crossings. I've just come back from a lesson where my instructor has given me advice which I believe contradicts the highway code, which I argued to her about.
I was sat at a red light, pedestrians are crossing, as the light turns to amber a man starts to walk across the road (my lane), naturally I wait, he's slow and as he's walking it turns to green (it's a wide crossing with no central island), before he reaches the other side a woman begins to cross from the opposite side (other lane), when she does this a driver behind pulls around me and speeds off in front, my instructor is under the impression that I was showing undue hesitation and would have failed my test had I been taking it, I on the other hand have always been taught that you should not move the vehicle until the pedestrian is fully on the pavement on the opposite site of the road,
What was the correct thing to do in this situation? Should I have went when the man was in the oncoming lane, and said woman began to cross, or should I have waited for the full duration of both the man and woman crossing? Granted the woman crossed when the lights were on green for cars, but I was always taught to give way to pedestrians.
Picture below shows in a bit more detail the situation:
Red is man crossing
Blue is woman beginning to cross and when she began to cross in relation to the man
Man was already in road when light turned to amber
Overtaking car (not visible in picture) sped around me roughly at this point
Help is really appreciated, I'm not looking to try to get "1-up" on the instructor or anything, I'm purely wondering what the correct thing to do is, I am a student after all. If you need any further details then just ask
I was sat at a red light, pedestrians are crossing, as the light turns to amber a man starts to walk across the road (my lane), naturally I wait, he's slow and as he's walking it turns to green (it's a wide crossing with no central island), before he reaches the other side a woman begins to cross from the opposite side (other lane), when she does this a driver behind pulls around me and speeds off in front, my instructor is under the impression that I was showing undue hesitation and would have failed my test had I been taking it, I on the other hand have always been taught that you should not move the vehicle until the pedestrian is fully on the pavement on the opposite site of the road,
What was the correct thing to do in this situation? Should I have went when the man was in the oncoming lane, and said woman began to cross, or should I have waited for the full duration of both the man and woman crossing? Granted the woman crossed when the lights were on green for cars, but I was always taught to give way to pedestrians.
Picture below shows in a bit more detail the situation:
Red is man crossing
Blue is woman beginning to cross and when she began to cross in relation to the man
Man was already in road when light turned to amber
Overtaking car (not visible in picture) sped around me roughly at this point
Help is really appreciated, I'm not looking to try to get "1-up" on the instructor or anything, I'm purely wondering what the correct thing to do is, I am a student after all. If you need any further details then just ask
Edited by Seigi on Tuesday 12th August 11:03
Remember that there are different types of crossing, that have different rules. If it had been a Zebra crossing, then the pedestrian would have 'owned' it as long as they stayed on it.
On a traffic light-controlled crossing like the one you describe, after the lights have gone green for you, your only obligation to people wandering across the road is to not hit them. It's also possible that you staying put actually encouraged the second person to cross when they shouldn't have.
If you'd moved forward slowly after the lights were green for you and the first pedestrian was out of your way, everyone around would have understood your actions. Lack of movement + L-plates will tend to encourage other road users to do daft things.
Also remember - free advice from the internet is generally worth exactly what you pay for it. If your instructor says something odd, ask them to explain.
On a traffic light-controlled crossing like the one you describe, after the lights have gone green for you, your only obligation to people wandering across the road is to not hit them. It's also possible that you staying put actually encouraged the second person to cross when they shouldn't have.
If you'd moved forward slowly after the lights were green for you and the first pedestrian was out of your way, everyone around would have understood your actions. Lack of movement + L-plates will tend to encourage other road users to do daft things.
Also remember - free advice from the internet is generally worth exactly what you pay for it. If your instructor says something odd, ask them to explain.
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
Remember that there are different types of crossing, that have different rules. If it had been a Zebra crossing, then the pedestrian would have 'owned' it as long as they stayed on it
That's not the case as far as the law is concerned. The pedestrian using the crossing has priority, meaning so long as you don't hinder their progress in any way you can traverse the crossing. In other words, you don't have to wait until they've reached the other side.It may be best practice to wait as, for example,a pedestrian may get half way across then suddenly change their minds and turn around. If you're blocking their progress at that point the offence would be committed.
In the case of a traffic light controlled crossing assuming someone is on the crossing at whatever side after the light has changed from red it seems like common sense that you'll have to wait until the crossing is clear.Which leaves the question of a driving instructor seeing it as the driver who is waiting then being at fault not any driver who decides to move off across a crossing while a car was waiting at it for whatever reason regardless of what the lights say.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 16th August 21:15
7mike said:
Op, do you think you were hesitant? What would you do in a similar situation after passing your test? Well done for keeping an eye on the pedestrians all around btw; it's more than a lot of 'experienced' drivers seem to manage.
I wouldn't say I was hesitant, as I said, before the man reached the other side a woman stepped onto the crossing. The pedestrian lights would have been red for her as it was green for me at this time, I saw that she stepped onto the crossing and thought the only safe option was to wait, in doing so an impatient Audi driver behind me pulled around and sped off in front, my driving instructor then relayed this to me as I stopping the flow of traffic (or something like this).I had quite a heated argument with her over it, repeatedly saying to her "I could not go because there was someone on the crossing, telling her that the highway code says to give way to pedestrians still using the crossing after the lights have changed green", she was adamant that I should have went after the man had stepped onto the pavement regardless if the woman was on the crossing or not, saying that I would have failed my test because of what the driver behind did, I replied to her that "I would have failed the test either way then, either by driving over the crossing whilst it was in use by a pedestrian, or by the driver recklessly overtaking me", to which she said "Yeah, you would of then".
I have a full motorcycle license and as such I am a very observant person. In all honesty, if I had been on the bike I would have just went, but cautiously. But the thing is, I've passed my motorcycle test, I don't need to follow the highway code "to the tee", but in preparing for my driving test I need to follow what the highway code says, even if it would be considered silly.
It's sods law really, because normally the oncoming traffic is quite heavy at that time, someone else would have flew around the corner and made the woman jump back, allowing me to go on, but ya know, that's just how it goes.
Judging by what is said in section "198
Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings."
I did the correct thing by waiting, and in turn giving way?
Edited by Seigi on Saturday 16th August 23:26
I could have gone, safely. But the fact is, a pedestrian was using a crossing in the highway code it states to give way to pedestrians still on the crossing after lights change to green, I am under the impression this includes pedestrians which have stepped onto the crossing from the oncoming lane side.
The Audi driver didn't "proceed safely", he overtook at a point which could have led him to either hit a pedestrian (if they'd turned back, or the lady was quicker), or hit a car coming around the corner.
You can look at it as "The Audi driver didn't hit anyone, and therefore it was safe", but in the same sense, you could also say (hypothetically) "The audi driver was going 50 in a 20, didn't hit anyone and therefore was driving at a safe speed", it doesn't mean it was safe, it just means that the conditions set for that particular time led him to be able to drive at that speed. Sadly the highway code isn't ambiguous (mostly).
The Audi driver didn't "proceed safely", he overtook at a point which could have led him to either hit a pedestrian (if they'd turned back, or the lady was quicker), or hit a car coming around the corner.
You can look at it as "The Audi driver didn't hit anyone, and therefore it was safe", but in the same sense, you could also say (hypothetically) "The audi driver was going 50 in a 20, didn't hit anyone and therefore was driving at a safe speed", it doesn't mean it was safe, it just means that the conditions set for that particular time led him to be able to drive at that speed. Sadly the highway code isn't ambiguous (mostly).
Edited by Seigi on Sunday 17th August 11:28
Edited by Seigi on Sunday 17th August 11:28
Seigi said:
I wouldn't say I was hesitant, as I said, before the man reached the other side a woman stepped onto the crossing.
But you don't have to wait for the man to step off the crossing. You have to give the pedestrian precedence.Depending on the road it would be perfectly safe to move off (when your light went green) and the man was crossing the other half of the road. This would have prevented the woman starting to cross (against her red light).
So, I'd tentatively agree with your ADI.
See, I always thought that giving way meant I had to wait for the pedestrian to use the crossing for the entire duration. I felt personally like I could have safely gone, but there was someone still using the crossing and therefore I thought i had to wait for them to use the crossing entirely.
If the latter is true, you could quite possibly be sat at the traffic lights all day because of sheeple just following one another endlessly, so it would make more sense to give pedestrians precedence, as you say, and not necessarily have to wait for them to cross in their entirety.
If the latter is true, you could quite possibly be sat at the traffic lights all day because of sheeple just following one another endlessly, so it would make more sense to give pedestrians precedence, as you say, and not necessarily have to wait for them to cross in their entirety.
Vaux said:
Seigi said:
I wouldn't say I was hesitant, as I said, before the man reached the other side a woman stepped onto the crossing.
But you don't have to wait for the man to step off the crossing. You have to give the pedestrian precedence.Depending on the road it would be perfectly safe to move off (when your light went green) and the man was crossing the other half of the road. This would have prevented the woman starting to cross (against her red light).
So, I'd tentatively agree with your ADI.
www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/pedestrian-cr...
There is nothing there which allows anyone to move off on a green light if someone is on the crossing regardless of which side of it they happen to be on.
XJ Flyer said:
I'd say that the 'ADI' doesn't seem to have a clue as to what the rules 'actually' say.
www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/pedestrian-cr...
There is nothing there which allows anyone to move off on a green light if someone is on the crossing regardless of which side of it they happen to be on.
196 is poorly written. Have a look at ZPPPCRGDwww.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/pedestrian-cr...
There is nothing there which allows anyone to move off on a green light if someone is on the crossing regardless of which side of it they happen to be on.
Also, if this is just a pedestrian controlled traffic light crossing (without zig zags), the ZPPPCRGD doesn't seem to apply.
Vaux said:
XJ Flyer said:
I'd say that the 'ADI' doesn't seem to have a clue as to what the rules 'actually' say.
www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/pedestrian-cr...
There is nothing there which allows anyone to move off on a green light if someone is on the crossing regardless of which side of it they happen to be on.
196 is poorly written. Have a look at ZPPPCRGDwww.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/pedestrian-cr...
There is nothing there which allows anyone to move off on a green light if someone is on the crossing regardless of which side of it they happen to be on.
Also, if this is just a pedestrian controlled traffic light crossing (without zig zags), the ZPPPCRGD doesn't seem to apply.
XJ Flyer said:
The relevant rules in this case being 197 and 198.
Sorry, I might have mislead you by mentioning 196 - I did so to highlight the sentence "If the amber light is flashing and there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with caution."People, not unreasonably, read this as the crossing must be clear. ZPPPCRGD (26) words it differently, bringing in precedence.
I don't think the OP is talking about a Pelican crossing here though - no mention of a flashing amber phase?
198 is a sensible rule, but if the OP had moved off promptly when the man was safely clear, the woman would probably have complied with her red light and everything would have worked out.
tenpenceshort said:
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
Remember that there are different types of crossing, that have different rules. If it had been a Zebra crossing, then the pedestrian would have 'owned' it as long as they stayed on it
That's not the case as far as the law is concerned. The pedestrian using the crossing has priority, meaning so long as you don't hinder their progress in any way you can traverse the crossing. In other words, you don't have to wait until they've reached the other side.It may be best practice to wait as, for example,a pedestrian may get half way across then suddenly change their minds and turn around. If you're blocking their progress at that point the offence would be committed.
Vaux said:
XJ Flyer said:
The relevant rules in this case being 197 and 198.
Sorry, I might have mislead you by mentioning 196 - I did so to highlight the sentence "If the amber light is flashing and there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with caution."People, not unreasonably, read this as the crossing must be clear. ZPPPCRGD (26) words it differently, bringing in precedence.
I don't think the OP is talking about a Pelican crossing here though - no mention of a flashing amber phase?
198 is a sensible rule, but if the OP had moved off promptly when the man was safely clear, the woman would probably have complied with her red light and everything would have worked out.
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