"Correct" thing to do in this situation:pedestrian crossings

[tenpenceshort]

Mr Classic said:

You WILL get a major fault on your test if you drive across a zebra crossing if there is a pedestrian anywhere on it.

If you accord the pedestrian precedence you commit no offence. If the DSA choose to interpret the rule in a particular way, that's their business.

[Vaux]

Mr Classic said:

You WILL get a major fault on your test if you drive across a zebra crossing if there is a pedestrian anywhere on it.

I read a book written by an ex DSA Examiner for PDIs and this situation was one he wrote about. He condoned the precedence approach.
But that's just one Examiner's opinion.

[Seigi]

Vaux said:

Sorry, I might have mislead you by mentioning 196 - I did so to highlight the sentence "If the amber light is flashing and there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with caution."
People, not unreasonably, read this as the crossing must be clear. ZPPPCRGD (26) words it differently, bringing in precedence.
I don't think the OP is talking about a Pelican crossing here though - no mention of a flashing amber phase?
198 is a sensible rule, but if the OP had moved off promptly when the man was safely clear, the woman would probably have complied with her red light and everything would have worked out.

Well it's technically a pelican crossing in its physical design except there is no flashing amber light that I remember. It's traffic controlled, pressing the button makes no difference to when the lights change, it's just there as a placebo. In fact, I'll just link to it on Google maps, I was hesitant to on the off chance that the instructor browses these forum (although it's highly unlikely), though by the details alone she'd probably know it was me.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.89261,-2.934827,...

[Vaux]

Seigi said:

Well it's technically a pelican crossing in its physical design except there is no flashing amber light that I remember. It's traffic controlled, pressing the button makes no difference to when the lights change, it's just there as a placebo. In fact, I'll just link to it on Google maps, I was hesitant to on the off chance that the instructor browses these forum (although it's highly unlikely), though by the details alone she'd probably know it was me.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.89261,-2.934827,...

Have a look here - (LDC are a national driving school):
https://www.learnerdriving.com/ld-system/driving-l...
https://www.learnerdriving.com/driving-test/markin...

LDC call this a traffic light crossing (note the absence of white zig zags painted on either side of the crossing) - pressing the button should hold all the junction lights at red for pedestrians to cross.
Interestingly LDC include as possible faults on a driving test:
"Not giving precedence to pedestrians on a crossing."
"Moving away before pedestrians have crossed over in front of the car."
No where (I could see) do they state the crossing should be clear of pedestrians.

Waiting till pedestrians are completely clear is the safe test option - you might pick up a Driving Fault for maintain progress/undue hesitation, but if you got the timing of moving away wrong, you could end up with a Serious/Dangerous and it's test over.
It's one of the differences between being taught to pass a test and being taught to drive.

Here's a question (I think you're a biker?) - what would you have done on the bike?

[7mike]

Vaux said:

Here's a question (I think you're a biker?) - what would you have done on the bike?

He already said:

Seigi said:

I have a full motorcycle license and as such I am a very observant person. In all honesty, if I had been on the bike I would have just went, but cautiously. But the thing is, I've passed my motorcycle test, I don't need to follow the highway code "to the tee", but in preparing for my driving test I need to follow what the highway code says, even if it would be considered silly.

My own opinion; yet another quest for a black & white answer that does not exist. Come the driving test op, weigh up what's going on & do what you believe to be correct (& check the mirrors for fking Audi drivers ).

[SK425]

tenpenceshort said:

Mr Classic said:

You WILL get a major fault on your test if you drive across a zebra crossing if there is a pedestrian anywhere on it.

If you accord the pedestrian precedence you commit no offence. If the DSA choose to interpret the rule in a particular way, that's their business.

That's the way I understand DSA interpret it - both from my car experience a long time ago and my motorbike experience a lot more recently - and so I find the OP's instructor's comments quite surprising. I thought playing it safe and waiting until the pedestrian is completely clear, even when that's more than the law requires, was the obvious approach with no real down side if the goal is to please the DSA examiner, but perhaps it's not so clear cut...

[martine]

Mr Classic said:

You WILL get a major fault on your test if you drive across a zebra crossing if there is a pedestrian anywhere on it.

Not true - if the ped is walking away from the car then it's safe to proceed - you don't have to wait until the ped is across the other side and off the crossing.

[daz6215]

martine said:

Mr Classic said:

You WILL get a major fault on your test if you drive across a zebra crossing if there is a pedestrian anywhere on it.

Not true - if the ped is walking away from the car then it's safe to proceed - you don't have to wait until the ped is across the other side and off the crossing.

What if the pedestrian turns around and walks back across?

[Seigi]

That was my thought, treat pedestrians like idiots because you can't read their minds, they could suddenly realise they forgot their wallet at the shop, turn around and run back across the crossing into your car/into your car's path. In the original situation I highlighted, the woman, for instance, could look at the time then think "Oh shi* I'm late", start running before looking up and end up running into my car.

I think if the situation arises (I hope it doesn't) that the best thing to do is just to wait, show the examiner that I'm looking around, check mirrors etc. (maybe even say to the examiner "I'm just waiting for this lady to cross because I don't know her full intentions and the crossing isn't clear") until the person has crossed.

Edited by Seigi on Thursday 21st August 17:12

[stevensdrs]

Speaking as a qualified driving instructor, I despair at the poor knowledge and complete bks given as advice on this thread.
Pedestrians have precedence when on a pedestrian crossing and you MUST not move off until they are clear of the crossing. If the crossing is divided by an island or is staggered, you may move off when the pedestrian has crossed the part you are waiting at.
Any deviation from this will result in a serious fault being marked on a driving test report for failing to comply with a traffic light or road marking.

That said, today I witnessed 3 cars drive through a red light on a pelican crossing, so it appears no one gives a damn anymore.

[daz6215]

Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings

25. (1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian.

(2) Where there is a refuge for pedestrians or central reservation on a Zebra crossing, the parts of the crossing situated on each side of the refuge for pedestrians or central reservation shall, for the purposes of this regulation, be treated as separate crossings.

[7mike]

stevensdrs said:

Speaking as a qualified driving instructor, I despair at the poor knowledge and complete bks given as advice on this thread.
Pedestrians have precedence when on a pedestrian crossing and you MUST not move off until they are clear of the crossing. If the crossing is divided by an island or is staggered, you may move off when the pedestrian has crossed the part you are waiting at.
Any deviation from this will result in a serious fault being marked on a driving test report for failing to comply with a traffic light or road marking.

That said, today I witnessed 3 cars drive through a red light on a pelican crossing, so it appears no one gives a damn anymore.

Guess it depends on the type of crossing. As the op is regarding light controlled crossings perhaps the advice regarding Pelicans is more appropriate?

Highway Code said:

197

Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing, even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who are crossing from the other side of the island.
Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)

[Vipers]

daz6215 said:

Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings

25. (1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing.

Does that mean when they have stepped onto the actual crossing, I assume it does, just clarifying that.

[daz6215]

daz6215 said:

Vipers said:

daz6215 said:

Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings

25. (1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing.

Does that mean when they have stepped onto the actual crossing, I assume it does, just clarifying that.

Road markings

6. Subject to the following provisions of this Part of this Schedule—

(a)within the limits of a Zebra crossing the carriageway shall be marked with a series of alternate black and white stripes

Limits of the crossing

8. (1) If it provides a reasonable contrast with the white stripes, the colour of the surface of the carriageway may be used to indicate the stripes shown coloured black in the diagram.

(2) The white stripes may be illuminated by retroreflecting material.

(3) Subject to paragraph (4) each black and each white stripe shall be of the same size and not less than 500 mm nor more than 715 mm wide as measured across the carriageway.

(4) The first stripe at each end may be up to 1300 mm wide and, if the traffic authority consider it appropriate in relation to a particular crossing having regard to the layout of the carriageway or other special circumstances, the other stripes may be not less than 380 mm nor more than 840 mm wide as measured across the carriageway.

[Vipers]

daz6215 said:

Vipers said:

daz6215 said:

Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings

25. (1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing.

Does that mean when they have stepped onto the actual crossing, I assume it does, just clarifying that.

Limits of the crossing

8. (1) If it provides a reasonable contrast with the white stripes, the colour of the surface of the carriageway may be used to indicate the stripes shown coloured black in the diagram.

(2) The white stripes may be illuminated by retroreflecting material.

(3) Subject to paragraph (4) each black and each white stripe shall be of the same size and not less than 500 mm nor more than 715 mm wide as measured across the carriageway.

(4) The first stripe at each end may be up to 1300 mm wide and, if the traffic authority consider it appropriate in relation to a particular crossing having regard to the layout of the carriageway or other special circumstances, the other stripes may be not less than 380 mm nor more than 840 mm wide as measured across the carriageway.

So that's a yes to my question. Are you a politician by any chance?

[daz6215]

[daz6215]

Vipers said:

daz6215 said:

Vipers said:

daz6215 said:

Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings

25. (1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing.

Does that mean when they have stepped onto the actual crossing, I assume it does, just clarifying that.

Limits of the crossing

8. (1) If it provides a reasonable contrast with the white stripes, the colour of the surface of the carriageway may be used to indicate the stripes shown coloured black in the diagram.

(2) The white stripes may be illuminated by retroreflecting material.

(3) Subject to paragraph (4) each black and each white stripe shall be of the same size and not less than 500 mm nor more than 715 mm wide as measured across the carriageway.

(4) The first stripe at each end may be up to 1300 mm wide and, if the traffic authority consider it appropriate in relation to a particular crossing having regard to the layout of the carriageway or other special circumstances, the other stripes may be not less than 380 mm nor more than 840 mm wide as measured across the carriageway.

So that's a yes to my question. Are you a politician by any chance?

Fortunately not!

[Pit Pony]

As a parent, I taught my kids to ONLY cross when BOTH of the following are true : green man showing, and ALL the cars have stopped. I taught them this because a mates dad spent a year recovering mostly in hospital, after he crossed with the green man, and the motorcyclist didn't.

When they were learning to drive, I taught them to wait until they have reached the pavement. Because it's POLITE.

[Vaux]

stevensdrs said:

Speaking as a qualified driving instructor, I despair at the poor knowledge and complete bks given as advice on this thread.
Pedestrians have precedence when on a pedestrian crossing and you MUST not move off until they are clear of the crossing.

Yes they have precedence.
Per the OP - initially there was a slow moving man. Let's embellish and add he was walking with sticks/a zimmer. At some point, even if he did turn round, there would be zero risk if the OP had driven off. He could not physically get back in front of the OP's vehicle.
Do you teach to always wait till the crossing is clear, irrespective of crossing width and state of the pedestrian?

[Vaux]

daz6215 said:

martine said:

Mr Classic said:

You WILL get a major fault on your test if you drive across a zebra crossing if there is a pedestrian anywhere on it.

Not true - if the ped is walking away from the car then it's safe to proceed - you don't have to wait until the ped is across the other side and off the crossing.

What if the pedestrian turns around and walks back across?

You'll be gone.
The vehicle behind you will need to give precedence.