Starting with IAM

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waterwonder

Original Poster:

995 posts

175 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
Afternoon,

I've just started to do my observed drives so thought I'd share my experience and reflections in case it is of interest.

I've been considering doing this since i passed my test 10 years ago, however insurance stipulations on my company car have provided the catalyst to get on with it. IAM = A sportier car.

My observation begun with the a brief introduction and some general chit chat and then a 10 minute drive during which my observer (we'll call him Mike) took a look at my driving. We then stopped for a bit of theory namely cock pit drills and seat & mirror positioning. For the most part these made complete sense and were good points, particularly revisiting how my mirrors were set up and adjusting my seat to a more upright position.

My mirrors were showing too much car body and not enough road, after adjusting these to perhaps the other extreme I've found a happy medium were just the tips of my door handles are visible. Further than this and I actually was getting a bigger blind spot, I think due to the design of my mirrors in particular. I would have described my seating position as normal (not laid back gangster but not bolt upright), having adjusted it i'm now more upright than feels natural but visibility is improved so I will preserve with it.

After going through these settings along with associated rationale we set off once more however this time i was asked to commentate on hazards, both active and potential (IYSWIM). I found this quite difficult and a little bit distracting, however it did highlight some things I saw but didn't really observe as potential hazards in my normal driving. I definitely need to practice this element and learn concise ways of conveying what my brain is processing.

A debrief and some further points on hazard perception concluded our session and we've agreed to meet again, in the mean time i need to get use to my new mirror and seat position and most of all practice my commentary.

There are two points that have been niggling me though and I wondered what others view on these were...
a) Confirming with a passenger that their door is shut. This is pretty minor however its not really something i would ever think of doing, firstly because I can tell by the sound if its shut and secondly because my car would scream blue murder if i moved off and a door wasn't shut.

b) Not belting up until after the engine has started. The reason given was that injectors used to blow up therefore a swift exit after starting the engine maybe required. That may have been true once upon a time but i struggle to see the relevance in most peoples cars now. I have never known or heard of such a thing. I do however know of parked cars that have been hit with the engine off...

Current thoughts, I'm very pleased to be doing it and hope further drives will continue to be informative and improve my driving. However Mike
pointed out that the numbers of the next generation getting involved are small and dwindling, so far I can't say it surprises me. The content and delivery (as a package not Mike's personal style) just don't fit with modern priorities (however wrong those maybe).





Edited by waterwonder on Monday 8th September 17:39

SK425

1,034 posts

148 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
waterwonder said:
There are two points that have been niggling me though and I wondered what others view on these were...
My view? You have an anally retentive observer who wants to obsess about irrelevant procedural minutiae. It happens. As long as you approach the whole thing with a mindset that there'll be lots of good in what you learn and you're just going to let the occasional silliness wash over, you shouldn't have a problem. In the unlikely event that your observer is a bit confused about what's important - good observation, anticipation and planning vs door shutting drills - remember that you can always ask for a different observer.

waterwonder

Original Poster:

995 posts

175 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
Fair enough, I was rather hoping that would be the case. Do these sort of things get tested? It wasn't clear whether this was Mike's personal preference or something a examiner would be looking for.

The observation, anticipation and planning etc is what i'm interested in.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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waterwonder said:
b) Not belting up until after the engine has started. The reason given was that injectors used to blow up therefore a swift exit after starting the engine maybe required. That may have been true once upon a time but i struggle to see the relevance in most peoples cars now. I have never known or heard of such a thing. I do however know of parked cars that have been hit with the engine off...
This is the sort of nonsense that puts people off, IMO. It probably isn't even the original reason - there may not even have been an original reason for the order of doing those things, it could well be some nonsense that somebody has made up and passed on as gospel.

johnao

667 posts

242 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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waterwonder said:
Afternoon,

There are two points that have been niggling me though and I wondered what others view on these were...

a) Confirming with a passenger that their door is shut.

b) Not belting up until after the engine has started.

Current thoughts, I'm very pleased to be doing it and hope further drives will continue to be informative and improve my driving.
Of all the comments that you have posted the final paragraph that I have quoted contains the most important point that you make.


As for points a) and b), I sympathise with you. One of the problems that newbie IAM/RoSPA associates have is that they sometimes regard their observer/tutor as the fount of all knowledge and wisdom. When in reality, he isn't. And, I speak as an IAM National Observer and RoSPA Tutor

For item a) you don't need to ask your passengers, you might not have any. Just use your door mirrors to look down the side of the vehicle, you'll soon see if a door is not properly latched, and/or, wait for the door alarm to warn you.

For item b) it's your choice. I am in the habit of putting my seat belt on after I've started the engine, for the reasons stated. But it's not mandatory, it's just general advice that you are being given and you can choose to ignore it and do as you wish.

In the early days of observed drives it's sometimes difficult for the associate to distinguish between what's really important and therefore "must do", and what's of little significance and is down to personal choice. I suggest that you speak to your observer about this. Make him question what he's telling you and only accept it if you're satisfied with the answer.

The two queries that you have fall firmly in to the category of personal choice and can be ignored if you so wish. One of the skills that you have to learn is how to identify the advice which is merely general advice and be able to tell your observer, in the nicest possible way, that you don't want to do it the way he has suggested. Be your own person.

R0G

4,984 posts

154 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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Which IAM group have you gone with?

waterwonder

Original Poster:

995 posts

175 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for the responses. I'd made a small promise to myself just to go with along with everything (obviously not if it was dangerous) on my first meet.

I'll question more and revisit earlier points as time goes on.

ROG I'd rather not say in the interests of keeping this and any subsequent updates impartial.

R_U_LOCAL

2,676 posts

207 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
Starting drills come in many varied forms, but there is a hidden point to them beyond the obvious nature of the checks themselves.

At some stage you will be taking a test with an unfamiliar examiner sat alongside you. Now, I don't care who you are, or how well qualified you are - tests bring with them a certain amount of nervous tension, and driving tests in particular seem to affect people quite badly.

Your examiner will be expecting you to be nervous, of course, and they will always take your nerves into account, but they will also be looking at how you deal with those nerves and how effectively you can carry on and perform whilst under the pressure of an advanced driving test.

Here's where the starting drill really helps. If you have a well rehearsed routine which you carry out in the same order every time you get in the car, and you're happy that you can go through all the different checks and adjustments before setting off, you'll have a confident start to your test, and you'll successfully get the first few (usually most nervous) minutes of the test out of the way with a routine that you're comfortable with. In addition, you'll be confident that all is ok with the car as you set off and you won't get halfway through the test and start worrying if the boot is properly closed or if your passenger has fastened their seatbelt.

The order in which you carry out these actions is less important, as long as it's consistent & you carry out the same actions in the same order every time.

At my police driving school, the starting drill began with a clockwise walk around the car, checking all the doors, boot and bonnet were closed from the outside before getting in to the car, and the seatbelt was applied after adjusting the seat but before starting the engine. These are details though and your examiner won't care what order you do them in - only that you don't miss anything.

There is nothing wrong with your associate asking you to start learning the starting drill from day one, but I would also expect that you received at least an introduction to observations & planning, and to the basics of systematic driving.

Rick101

6,959 posts

149 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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Had similar questions. The door check is worthwhile. You have 2 methods, manually check the lines using the reflection in the NS door mirror, secondly the electronic check the car will do.

Re the seat belts, yes it's bks. I've had the same argument. Do it your own way.

outnumbered

4,067 posts

233 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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This sort of nitpicking ste is why I don't see myself ever doing a car IAM test, despite having passed my bike IAM test a long time ago. Startup drills FFS.

Z.B

224 posts

177 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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The advice already given is sound. I've heard this rubbish about the car blowing up immediately on starting a couple of times recently, and in my opinion it's poppycock. Goodness knows where it comes from as even among lovers of rigorous cockpit drills it is more usual for seatbelt to be on before the engine. That said, it's hardly worth arguing over the order. The point of a consistent cockpit drill is that it covers all the necessary points and you don't forget anything in adverse circumstances.

Personally though I rarely mention the subject on a first drive, for reasons this thread demonstrates. The first session should be enjoyable, give a broad overview and put the emphasis where it will make the most difference. 10 minutes on this kind of thing is 10 minutes wasted at this point.

SK425

1,034 posts

148 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
R_U_LOCAL said:
Here's where the starting drill really helps. If you have a well rehearsed routine which you carry out in the same order every time you get in the car, and you're happy that you can go through all the different checks and adjustments before setting off, you'll have a confident start to your test, and you'll successfully get the first few (usually most nervous) minutes of the test out of the way with a routine that you're comfortable with.
That's a really good point. Even though I think it's irrelevant procedural minutiae, I had a starting drill during my RoSPA training that involved asking the tutor (and the examiner on test day) to check their seatbelt was on and their door was closed. Not because I needed to ask them - and I don't think either my tutor or my examiner would have been bothered if I hadn't asked - but because I'd settled on a starting drill that included that and it became something to anchor my mind into the right state for an observed drive.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
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R_U_LOCAL said:
At my police driving school, the starting drill began with a clockwise walk around the car, checking all the doors, boot and bonnet were closed from the outside before getting in to the car.
Ah, yes, clockwise is important, because serial killers generally lie in wait for you behind the driver's seat, so it's important that you thoroughly check the rear of the car first.

wink

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
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otolith said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
At my police driving school, the starting drill began with a clockwise walk around the car, checking all the doors, boot and bonnet were closed from the outside before getting in to the car.
Ah, yes, clockwise is important, because serial killers generally lie in wait for you behind the driver's seat, so it's important that you thoroughly check the rear of the car first.

wink
which is also part of the training given to all Military people - although I don;t think the police on the amainland routinely 8 point check their vehicle's underside as was standard advise when Norn Iron was still ongoing ...

Rick101

6,959 posts

149 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
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I had the seatbelt rubbish from York IAM and West Yorkshire ROSPA.

When I challenged York on it they were ok and said do what you feel it right. When I challenged ROSPA I was told in no uncertain terms we expect you to do it this way and your examiner will expect you to do it this way.

Personally I think technology is moving faster than these organisations can keep up.

R_U_LOCAL

2,676 posts

207 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
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otolith said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
At my police driving school, the starting drill began with a clockwise walk around the car, checking all the doors, boot and bonnet were closed from the outside before getting in to the car.
Ah, yes, clockwise is important, because serial killers generally lie in wait for you behind the driver's seat, so it's important that you thoroughly check the rear of the car first.

wink
The altenative is the CID starting drill.

"We're in, we're off".

If you're in a role which involves driving any number of different vehicles, shared with any number of other drivers, some of whom are careless, inconsiderate and unlikely to report any damage to the car, then a quick walk around the car makes perfect sense.

I've seen police cars left with flat tyres, broken lights,bodywork damage and, on one occasion, a dead cat embedded in the front grill.

Clockwise is optional, of course.

R0G

4,984 posts

154 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
outnumbered said:
This sort of nitpicking ste is why I don't see myself ever doing a car IAM test, despite having passed my bike IAM test a long time ago. Startup drills FFS.
I do none of that - why bother unless there is a problem - that is what observation by the observer is for

outnumbered

4,067 posts

233 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
R0G said:
I do none of that - why bother unless there is a problem - that is what observation by the observer is for
That's good to hear...

The advantage about the bike is that the observer isn't sitting next to you, s/he's behind you and also has to do their own riding, and so can only concentrate on the really important stuff like observation, speed management, road positioning, progressiveness, hazard awareness.

In a car, from reading threads on here, it seems like people more often become over-obsessed by what I'd consider minor details like how you hold the steering wheel, your exact gear changing process and use of the clutch etc.


otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
R_U_LOCAL said:
The altenative is the CID starting drill.

"We're in, we're off".

If you're in a role which involves driving any number of different vehicles, shared with any number of other drivers, some of whom are careless, inconsiderate and unlikely to report any damage to the car, then a quick walk around the car makes perfect sense.

I've seen police cars left with flat tyres, broken lights,bodywork damage and, on one occasion, a dead cat embedded in the front grill.

Clockwise is optional, of course.
smile

Of course it makes sense to check the car over, and if you are teaching it as a drill to be learnt, it needs to be in a particular order (unless you keep a clipboard with tick boxes in the car, and frankly I wouldn't put that past some people). The thing I find amusing - and it applies more widely than the order in which the driver does up their seatbelt and starts their engine - is that a particular way of doing something is specified as a standard, because a standard is required if you are going to teach and assess it. It's one way of doing things which is known to work. It's often not the only way, or necessarily the best way, but it's consistently reproducible. Misunderstanding this, other people then invent or propagate often bizarre justifications for why any other way of doing it is wrong, when actually the reason is simply "this is how we do it, and it works".

waterwonder

Original Poster:

995 posts

175 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
otolith said:
The thing I find amusing - and it applies more widely than the order in which the driver does up their seatbelt and starts their engine - is that a particular way of doing something is specified as a standard, because a standard is required if you are going to teach and assess it. It's one way of doing things which is known to work. It's often not the only way, or necessarily the best way, but it's consistently reproducible.
The problem is when the pupil can't decipher what are standards and what are personal preferences. It is clear in the responses above there can be a good deal of both in IAM instruction, I'll ask Mike to be clearer on which is which in future.