What am I doing wrong? Changing Lanes on a Motorway
Discussion
My guess is that you're pulling in way to close in front of them. You should only pull in to the lane when you are a safe distance in front of the car in the lane you are pulling in to. If we accept the two second rule and they are doing 70mph then that is 31m or 6-7 car lengths in front. The fact that you say you start indicating when beside them makes it very much sound like you are cutting in very close in front of them which is dangerous and really pisses me off so I imagine it does others too.
TurboHatchback said:
My guess is that you're pulling in way to close in front of them. You should only pull in to the lane when you are a safe distance in front of the car in the lane you are pulling in to. If we accept the two second rule and they are doing 70mph then that is 31m or 6-7 car lengths in front. The fact that you say you start indicating when beside them makes it very much sound like you are cutting in very close in front of them which is dangerous and really pisses me off so I imagine it does others too.
No, a safe distance. I think you've misunderstood the indicating alongside thing.However, this does seem the most likely thing, but what puzzled me was when I saw the Fiat 500 pull right in front of one of them with about a 1 metre gap without indicating (which i think i mentioned), and the same driver didn't react at all!
TurboHatchback said:
My guess is that you're pulling in way to close in front of them. You should only pull in to the lane when you are a safe distance in front of the car in the lane you are pulling in to. If we accept the two second rule and they are doing 70mph then that is 31m or 6-7 car lengths in front. The fact that you say you start indicating when beside them makes it very much sound like you are cutting in very close in front of them which is dangerous and really pisses me off so I imagine it does others too.
31m is about the distance covered at 70mph in one second. So, for a two second gap, shouldn't that be about 62m?SK425 said:
RobM77 said:
Thanks - some good thoughts. I'm indicating when the first driver's just ahead of me because it's the earliest opportunity to signal to the chap behind hiim when my indicators are out of his peripheral vision and he won't think I'm going to change lanes on top of him (if he mistakes me for an 'indicate as you move' type). I'm signalling to the guy at the rear of the gap of course, and I just want to do it as early as possible to give him plenty of warning.
I think giving him plenty of warning is good (I'm not sure what the point of a signal would be if you didn't pause - that would be being an 'indicate as you move' type which is a Bad Thing), but if you feel the driver behind needs some warning so they can plan what to do next, that does sound like a situation where you're needing to seek co-operation. If so, putting the signal on as you pass the car you intend to end up in front of could come across as a bit pushy - "I'll let you know what I'm going to do, but either way I'm doing it anyway". My preference in this situation would probably be to pass that car and match speed with the gap before signalling - trying to make it look like I plan to slot in behind the car ahead in lane 1 rather than slot in in front of the car I've just passed (yes, obviously they're the same thing, but it's how it's perceived).I can see I'm not explaining this very well! The guy who's alongside me when I indicate in all three situations never saw me indicating - that's the whole point - I wait until he's just ahead of me and he can't see me indicating - he just continues at his normal speed past me, and then when he's a safe distance in front of me and I'm still a safe distance in front of the guy behind him, I slot into the gap between them and cancel my indicator. Nothing complicated at all, just a very basic lane change.
Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 20th September 17:36
RobM77 said:
I can see I'm not explaining this very well!
RobM77 said:
Three similar incidents in two days. Here's what I did:
1. My wife and I are driving down the M27 on Sunday and coming off at the next slip road; I'm driving. We're in lane 2 overtaking a range of vehicles in lane 1, and I spot quite a good sized gap in lane 1, which, by the time I get to it, will be about half a mile to a quarter of a mile from the exit. Perfect. When I get alongside the car at the back of the gap, I check all is still well and indicate. Then, after a polite pause and when my car is in a suitable safe place in the gap, I check and the car at the rear hasn't sped up and all is still safe, so I slowly move over and cancel the indicator when all four wheels are within the lane. Not much slowing down needed and the gap was perfectly safe.
No, maybe not 1. My wife and I are driving down the M27 on Sunday and coming off at the next slip road; I'm driving. We're in lane 2 overtaking a range of vehicles in lane 1, and I spot quite a good sized gap in lane 1, which, by the time I get to it, will be about half a mile to a quarter of a mile from the exit. Perfect. When I get alongside the car at the back of the gap, I check all is still well and indicate. Then, after a polite pause and when my car is in a suitable safe place in the gap, I check and the car at the rear hasn't sped up and all is still safe, so I slowly move over and cancel the indicator when all four wheels are within the lane. Not much slowing down needed and the gap was perfectly safe.
Maybe I've misunderstood again, but are you saying you go past the gap til you're alongside the car ahead of the gap, indicate left, then slow down to slot into the gap? That's a weird way of doing it!
Edited by andywaterfall on Saturday 20th September 19:46
andywaterfall said:
RobM77 said:
I can see I'm not explaining this very well!
RobM77 said:
Three similar incidents in two days. Here's what I did:
1. My wife and I are driving down the M27 on Sunday and coming off at the next slip road; I'm driving. We're in lane 2 overtaking a range of vehicles in lane 1, and I spot quite a good sized gap in lane 1, which, by the time I get to it, will be about half a mile to a quarter of a mile from the exit. Perfect. When I get alongside the car at the back of the gap, I check all is still well and indicate. Then, after a polite pause and when my car is in a suitable safe place in the gap, I check and the car at the rear hasn't sped up and all is still safe, so I slowly move over and cancel the indicator when all four wheels are within the lane. Not much slowing down needed and the gap was perfectly safe.
No, maybe not 1. My wife and I are driving down the M27 on Sunday and coming off at the next slip road; I'm driving. We're in lane 2 overtaking a range of vehicles in lane 1, and I spot quite a good sized gap in lane 1, which, by the time I get to it, will be about half a mile to a quarter of a mile from the exit. Perfect. When I get alongside the car at the back of the gap, I check all is still well and indicate. Then, after a polite pause and when my car is in a suitable safe place in the gap, I check and the car at the rear hasn't sped up and all is still safe, so I slowly move over and cancel the indicator when all four wheels are within the lane. Not much slowing down needed and the gap was perfectly safe.
Maybe I've misunderstood again, but are you saying you go past the gap til you're alongside the car ahead of the gap, indicate left, then slow down to slot into the gap? That's a weird way of doing it!
Edited by andywaterfall on Saturday 20th September 19:46
I would check the side mirror as you go past then wait until you can see the car in the rear mirror before pulling in. That's about the easiest way to judge the gap.
I also wouldn't normally indicate, because it's not necessary. It's a given that someone driving to the highway code is going to pull in, so it should be expected and you should be far enough away from the car you've overtaking that your moving lanes has no material impact on them. You're not asking permission if you're far enough ahead. If you've plenty of space in front you might as well leave a longer gap than is necessary too.
I also wouldn't normally indicate, because it's not necessary. It's a given that someone driving to the highway code is going to pull in, so it should be expected and you should be far enough away from the car you've overtaking that your moving lanes has no material impact on them. You're not asking permission if you're far enough ahead. If you've plenty of space in front you might as well leave a longer gap than is necessary too.
Vaux said:
TurboHatchback said:
My guess is that you're pulling in way to close in front of them. You should only pull in to the lane when you are a safe distance in front of the car in the lane you are pulling in to. If we accept the two second rule and they are doing 70mph then that is 31m or 6-7 car lengths in front. The fact that you say you start indicating when beside them makes it very much sound like you are cutting in very close in front of them which is dangerous and really pisses me off so I imagine it does others too.
31m is about the distance covered at 70mph in one second. So, for a two second gap, shouldn't that be about 62m?RobM77 said:
No, a safe distance. I think you've misunderstood the indicating alongside thing.
However, this does seem the most likely thing, but what puzzled me was when I saw the Fiat 500 pull right in front of one of them with about a 1 metre gap without indicating (which i think i mentioned), and the same driver didn't react at all!
Well if so that seems rather early to be indicating. If for example you are going 10mph faster than them and you start indicating when alongside them then to leave a safe 2s gap behind when pulling in you would have to gain roughly 62m + your cars length before pulling in so your indicator would be on for ~14.5s before you even start changing lanes? That seems rather a long time to me (~15-30 flashes depending on your car).However, this does seem the most likely thing, but what puzzled me was when I saw the Fiat 500 pull right in front of one of them with about a 1 metre gap without indicating (which i think i mentioned), and the same driver didn't react at all!
Of course peoples perceptions of a safe following distance do vary wildly, yours could be much shorter than theirs. You do drive a diesel BMW after all
.paulrockliffe said:
I would check the side mirror as you go past then wait until you can see the car in the rear mirror before pulling in. That's about the easiest way to judge the gap.
I also wouldn't normally indicate, because it's not necessary. It's a given that someone driving to the highway code is going to pull in, so it should be expected and you should be far enough away from the car you've overtaking that your moving lanes has no material impact on them. You're not asking permission if you're far enough ahead. If you've plenty of space in front you might as well leave a longer gap than is necessary too.
Yep to the first part, bit as for the second, it may be the right thing to do, but it isn't. Average Joe, brakes when he shouldn't & doesn't indicate when he should. Also has nil appreciation of speed. So, a simple and easy indicator flick is probably preferable.I also wouldn't normally indicate, because it's not necessary. It's a given that someone driving to the highway code is going to pull in, so it should be expected and you should be far enough away from the car you've overtaking that your moving lanes has no material impact on them. You're not asking permission if you're far enough ahead. If you've plenty of space in front you might as well leave a longer gap than is necessary too.
I can assure everyone here that what I was doing was safe and the gaps were certainly a lot bigger than anywhere else in sight on that stretch of motorway and yes, the gaps were safe. What does interest me though is indicating, which a couple of posters mention above. I wonder if my "please may I move here? Thank you very much" approach actually annoys people more than the usual "I'm here" approach that most drivers favour as they dart into a gap, indicating after they start the move. This is the one thing I do differently to other drivers...
RobM77 said:
I can assure everyone here that what I was doing was safe and the gaps were certainly a lot bigger than anywhere else in sight on that stretch of motorway and yes, the gaps were safe. What does interest me though is indicating, which a couple of posters mention above. I wonder if my "please may I move here? Thank you very much" approach actually annoys people more than the usual "I'm here" approach that most drivers favour as they dart into a gap, indicating after they start the move. This is the one thing I do differently to other drivers...
How about something in between: pull alongside the gap you'd like to move into, indicate, wait a sec to make sure the guy behind doesn't try to close the gap, then move in? I think you're indicating too early and giving people the heebie-jeebies. My guess about situation 3 is that the motorcycle was closing "significantly" on you, and by pulling out to lane 3 without a big speed differential, he closed right onto your bumper before the move was over. That's why he shook his head.
By pausing out in lane 3 you gave the impression that you wanted to pull back into lane 2 but didn't think that the space was big enough. That probably caused the person at the back of the gap to drop back and give you extra space. Inadvertently you made them do something that they didn't need to do so that you could complete your move. That's why you got the flashing.
The net result gives an impression of an inattentive driver who is not confident in their perception or abilities, even if that isn't the reality.
By pausing out in lane 3 you gave the impression that you wanted to pull back into lane 2 but didn't think that the space was big enough. That probably caused the person at the back of the gap to drop back and give you extra space. Inadvertently you made them do something that they didn't need to do so that you could complete your move. That's why you got the flashing.
The net result gives an impression of an inattentive driver who is not confident in their perception or abilities, even if that isn't the reality.
Some good thoughts there, thanks.
I should add that whilst I get this sort of thing once every other day, I do drive about 650 miles a week, so it's a very low percentage of lane changes. I've also yet to experience any road rage in another make of car (including 3 months I spent in an Audi A4 last year), or in any other country other than the UK, so the BMW effect in the UK may well be contributing.
I should add that whilst I get this sort of thing once every other day, I do drive about 650 miles a week, so it's a very low percentage of lane changes. I've also yet to experience any road rage in another make of car (including 3 months I spent in an Audi A4 last year), or in any other country other than the UK, so the BMW effect in the UK may well be contributing.
R0G said:
I tend never to signal into lane 1 - why would I need to? - if I am going to or likely to cause another to change speed or direction then I should not be doing it
Length or application of signal for other things will depend on situation at the time
It helps people make decisions. In the above example, if someone in lane 3 was thinking of changing into lane 2, or perhaps a faster car behind you in lane 2 is thinking about overtaking you, then it's very helpful to know that you're about to move into lane 1.Length or application of signal for other things will depend on situation at the time
RobM77 said:
R0G said:
I tend never to signal into lane 1 - why would I need to? - if I am going to or likely to cause another to change speed or direction then I should not be doing it
Length or application of signal for other things will depend on situation at the time
It helps people make decisions. In the above example, if someone in lane 3 was thinking of changing into lane 2, or perhaps a faster car behind you in lane 2 is thinking about overtaking you, then it's very helpful to know that you're about to move into lane 1.Length or application of signal for other things will depend on situation at the time
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