What am I doing wrong? Changing Lanes on a Motorway
Discussion
JM said:
Are you sure they are not flashing their lights to say to you to pull in, rather than an aggressive gesture they don't do to others who cut in?
They are reading your indicating and hesitation as a request for permission, they flash their lights to give permission.
I think you are right . I have been flashed by other motorist to let me in a gap.They are reading your indicating and hesitation as a request for permission, they flash their lights to give permission.
Not always aggression like the O.P.seems to think.
How big is the gap behind you?
I used to get this a lot when I had a different car. Now I don't get it at all. Bizarrely it never happened with the car I had before that particular one either.
Why?
Well I worked it out in the end. The car in question was an ancient Ford Orion.
It transpired the Orion had weird mirrors. You know the old cliché 'Objects in mirror are closer than they appear' - in my case it was true. What appeared to be a clear pass in the mirror in reality wasn't. The mirror gave a slightly false impression, in that the image implied some distance between the overtaken car and I.
Optically speaking? No idea, but I found out by checking through the rear window. Effectively I had been cutting in front of people, aggressively, without any attention to do so.
So don't discount that as a cause.
I used to get this a lot when I had a different car. Now I don't get it at all. Bizarrely it never happened with the car I had before that particular one either.
Why?
Well I worked it out in the end. The car in question was an ancient Ford Orion.
It transpired the Orion had weird mirrors. You know the old cliché 'Objects in mirror are closer than they appear' - in my case it was true. What appeared to be a clear pass in the mirror in reality wasn't. The mirror gave a slightly false impression, in that the image implied some distance between the overtaken car and I.
Optically speaking? No idea, but I found out by checking through the rear window. Effectively I had been cutting in front of people, aggressively, without any attention to do so.
So don't discount that as a cause.
Don't discount that many folks on the roads are just morons too... they might just be be over-reacting. They say things come in 3's...
I've been getting used to Motorway driving recently with about 4,000 miles a month covered on busy M4/M3/M25 daily. I was pretty rusty, getting used to it now, but one thing I've found is that I have taken a much more relaxed attitude to driving - I make mistakes, other people will too - don't be too harsh or aggressive and extend courtesy to others. I've also found I have to 'break the rules' on occasion - there's some places you simply will get stuck till rush hour subsides unless you make an assertive move.
It sounds to me that you could indeed just be victim to morons, but at the same time - whilst you should certainly drive at your pace - I do tend to accelerate on a merge if it's a tight gap to ensure the follower doesn't have to brake. Or, if the car passing has significant speed differential, I would certainly start moving over before a 2s gap has been formed, the idea being it states my intention to the following car earlier. Yes not 'by the book' but people seem not to like it if you don't merge over pretty quick, and as said I'm being a bit more relaxed... I think the uneducated driver views it as a hesitant/delayed move and punish you for it, even if actually it's the correct & safest way.
I've been getting used to Motorway driving recently with about 4,000 miles a month covered on busy M4/M3/M25 daily. I was pretty rusty, getting used to it now, but one thing I've found is that I have taken a much more relaxed attitude to driving - I make mistakes, other people will too - don't be too harsh or aggressive and extend courtesy to others. I've also found I have to 'break the rules' on occasion - there's some places you simply will get stuck till rush hour subsides unless you make an assertive move.
It sounds to me that you could indeed just be victim to morons, but at the same time - whilst you should certainly drive at your pace - I do tend to accelerate on a merge if it's a tight gap to ensure the follower doesn't have to brake. Or, if the car passing has significant speed differential, I would certainly start moving over before a 2s gap has been formed, the idea being it states my intention to the following car earlier. Yes not 'by the book' but people seem not to like it if you don't merge over pretty quick, and as said I'm being a bit more relaxed... I think the uneducated driver views it as a hesitant/delayed move and punish you for it, even if actually it's the correct & safest way.
From your description I think your early signals are being misinterpreted for indecision or misjudgement of the position of other vehicles.
It sounds like you are signalling in advance of having your own vehicle in a position where you can safely change lanes. This is putting other drivers in a position of trying to anticipate your actions. Has he seen me? Surely he's not going to move now? Does he expect me to let him in? Had I better lift off? Shall I brake? Is he going to move over? What's he doing?
This situation is more likely to arise if the speed differential is not that great.
Your good intentions are actually causing other drivers to worry about what you're going to do and this is causing their annoyance. Whereas someone who flies past them and dives into a gap doesn't give them anything to worry about and so doesn't annoy. Textbook it's not, and probably not as safe, but the intention of the driver is clear and positive.
I would delay your signal until you are clear of the car you are moving in front of, signal, final adjustment of position within the gap, RVM and door mirror check, then move over. Still MSM, but less opportunity for confusion.
It sounds like you are signalling in advance of having your own vehicle in a position where you can safely change lanes. This is putting other drivers in a position of trying to anticipate your actions. Has he seen me? Surely he's not going to move now? Does he expect me to let him in? Had I better lift off? Shall I brake? Is he going to move over? What's he doing?
This situation is more likely to arise if the speed differential is not that great.
Your good intentions are actually causing other drivers to worry about what you're going to do and this is causing their annoyance. Whereas someone who flies past them and dives into a gap doesn't give them anything to worry about and so doesn't annoy. Textbook it's not, and probably not as safe, but the intention of the driver is clear and positive.
I would delay your signal until you are clear of the car you are moving in front of, signal, final adjustment of position within the gap, RVM and door mirror check, then move over. Still MSM, but less opportunity for confusion.
7db said:
People seems always to be happier if you go backwards -- relative to their motion -- into a gap, rather than forwards.
Must say I 'back' into spaces quite often and no one ever complains. Infact it seems a lot safer than charging into a gap and braking hard. I could imagine someone thinking it is some kind of pushing in, but try very hard to leave a lot of room for everyone.As a few others have said I think that your early and lengthy signalling, although "correct" and polite is probably being seen by a minority of drivers as dithering around, especially if its in busy times like rush hour when people are already frustrated.
Dithering is one thing that annoys me on the road. I dont gesticulate at people but I will often flash people to try and hint to them that the move they are planning is OK and to get on with it and stop holding me up. I appreciate in your case you say you are not affecting anyone elses actions.
I expect the majority of people that give you grief are not thinking
"bloody w
ker cut me up!" and are probably thinking "Come on then move in you knobber in your BM, learn how big it is"
So you are not doing anything wrong but I think you may just come across the odd person which that specific action frustrates.
Dithering is one thing that annoys me on the road. I dont gesticulate at people but I will often flash people to try and hint to them that the move they are planning is OK and to get on with it and stop holding me up. I appreciate in your case you say you are not affecting anyone elses actions.
I expect the majority of people that give you grief are not thinking
"bloody w
ker cut me up!" and are probably thinking "Come on then move in you knobber in your BM, learn how big it is" So you are not doing anything wrong but I think you may just come across the odd person which that specific action frustrates.
When I read your post, it sounded to me like you were pulling in too early. I've owned a number of BMWs and I know you do get more aggro from other drivers. As you are not having any problems when in any other cars, I suggest you just give slightly more room (respect) when in the BMW.
Do you have one of the latest BMW models with daytime running lights? As they for some strange reason do not put on the rear lights, it could be that your lightless rear is upsetting other drivers, perhaps? But I doubt it.
if you use the advanced driving technique of indicating 4 times BEFORE moving and only indicate left when clearly ahead of the passed car, you should have no problems. Clearly, when other cars are bearing down on you in lanes 2 or 3, you have to indicate earlier to show you know they are there and that you intend to pull over, but not cut in! Also, far too many drivers fail to indicate at all when changing lanes, so you are better than most.
When leaving the motorway, you should be in the inside lane well before the 300 metre board and indicate left to exit at the 300 metre board. I'm afraid the latest driving test encourages fewer indications off the motorways (why?) but that is then highly dangerous on motorways where other drivers abound and need to know your intentions. I recently saw a young driver with 'P' plates who changed lanes at least 4 times and had no idea about gaps, distances or indications (there were none) and yet she was surrounded by other (usually angry) drivers. I wanted to stop and talk to her to advise her but clearly that is invariably impossible on a motorway.
I recently spoke to a 'P' driver at a petrol station who was the only car on our stretch with no lights on - she said, "But it's not dark". I think the 'Theory Test' needs some more sensible everyday questions!
Do you have one of the latest BMW models with daytime running lights? As they for some strange reason do not put on the rear lights, it could be that your lightless rear is upsetting other drivers, perhaps? But I doubt it.
if you use the advanced driving technique of indicating 4 times BEFORE moving and only indicate left when clearly ahead of the passed car, you should have no problems. Clearly, when other cars are bearing down on you in lanes 2 or 3, you have to indicate earlier to show you know they are there and that you intend to pull over, but not cut in! Also, far too many drivers fail to indicate at all when changing lanes, so you are better than most.
When leaving the motorway, you should be in the inside lane well before the 300 metre board and indicate left to exit at the 300 metre board. I'm afraid the latest driving test encourages fewer indications off the motorways (why?) but that is then highly dangerous on motorways where other drivers abound and need to know your intentions. I recently saw a young driver with 'P' plates who changed lanes at least 4 times and had no idea about gaps, distances or indications (there were none) and yet she was surrounded by other (usually angry) drivers. I wanted to stop and talk to her to advise her but clearly that is invariably impossible on a motorway.
I recently spoke to a 'P' driver at a petrol station who was the only car on our stretch with no lights on - she said, "But it's not dark". I think the 'Theory Test' needs some more sensible everyday questions!
Bit late to the party but forgetting situation 1, in 2 & 3 where you're pulling into the faster lane what's behind the vehicles you're pulling in front of? Nothing annoys me more (actually loads of things do!!) than someone who moves from an inside lane to the lane I'm in so they don't have to slow but it causes me to slow. Especially if they anticipated their move a tad earlier and waited for me to pass as there's nothing behind me!
RobM77 said:
Pretty good to be honest, given all the racing I've done.
Ah. A good gap on track is one you can fit a fag paper in, from what I recall.Not for a moment suggesting you drive like that on the road, but it's easy to forget about the "2 second rule". In queues most folk with what they consider a 'safe gap' (often *much* less than 2 secs) and don't anticipate what will happen if someone moves into it.
I always found the drive back from a circuit with the racecar on a trailer was a great way of recalibrating safe gaps and stopping distances.
silentbrown said:
RobM77 said:
Pretty good to be honest, given all the racing I've done.
Ah. A good gap on track is one you can fit a fag paper in, from what I recall.Not for a moment suggesting you drive like that on the road, but it's easy to forget about the "2 second rule". In queues most folk with what they consider a 'safe gap' (often *much* less than 2 secs) and don't anticipate what will happen if someone moves into it.
I always found the drive back from a circuit with the racecar on a trailer was a great way of recalibrating safe gaps and stopping distances.
He was just asking what my spatial awareness is like, rather than my appreciation of what a safe gap is 
watchnut said:
If the traffic is heavy, the gaps will be shorter, therefore those that have been patient and are over in lane 1 earlier may feel a little aggrieved when some one over takes, and jumps into the "gap" they created for themselves causing them to lift off the gas or brake.
It'll be this. ANYTHING that causes another driver to lift (out of caution) if not to slow, let alone brake, risks a negative reaction. Let's face it, last minute exits are commonplace and a frequent cause of near misses and accidents. I suspect you're perceived to be in that group of drivers who seem to leave exits as late as possible to make progress.9mm said:
watchnut said:
If the traffic is heavy, the gaps will be shorter, therefore those that have been patient and are over in lane 1 earlier may feel a little aggrieved when some one over takes, and jumps into the "gap" they created for themselves causing them to lift off the gas or brake.
It'll be this. ANYTHING that causes another driver to lift (out of caution) if not to slow, let alone brake, risks a negative reaction. Let's face it, last minute exits are commonplace and a frequent cause of near misses and accidents. I suspect you're perceived to be in that group of drivers who seem to leave exits as late as possible to make progress.RobM77 said:
9mm said:
watchnut said:
If the traffic is heavy, the gaps will be shorter, therefore those that have been patient and are over in lane 1 earlier may feel a little aggrieved when some one over takes, and jumps into the "gap" they created for themselves causing them to lift off the gas or brake.
It'll be this. ANYTHING that causes another driver to lift (out of caution) if not to slow, let alone brake, risks a negative reaction. Let's face it, last minute exits are commonplace and a frequent cause of near misses and accidents. I suspect you're perceived to be in that group of drivers who seem to leave exits as late as possible to make progress.1. My wife and I are driving down the M27 on Sunday and coming off at the next slip road; I'm driving. We're in lane 2 overtaking a range of vehicles in lane 1, and I spot quite a good sized gap in lane 1, which, by the time I get to it, will be about half a mile to a quarter of a mile from the exit. Perfect. When I get alongside the car at the back of the gap, I check all is still well and indicate. Then, after a polite pause and when my car is in a suitable safe place in the gap, I check and the car at the rear hasn't sped up and all is still safe, so I slowly move over and cancel the indicator when all four wheels are within the lane. Not much slowing down needed and the gap was perfectly safe.
It doesn't sound as if traffic was light. If it was, why the need for so much road positioning and and slowing at all? Secondly, if you start the move at the lower end of your distance estimate, you are only going to get into the ns lane a hundred yards or so before the exit and that is going to be very late in the eyes of some drivers. It does appear you don't believe you did anything wrong but if you are getting reactions from other drivers you must be doing something wrong, at least in their eyes.
I see people making what I would call unnecessary and last minute exits all the time. Whilst I never feel the need to admonish them in any way, I can see why others would, especially if they are very risk averse, or, as I say, they have to make any adjustment at all to accommodate what they regard as a poor bit of driving. I think what goes through their mind, is what goes through mine - why couldn't you have got into the right lane a lot further back up the road?
9mm said:
RobM77 said:
9mm said:
watchnut said:
If the traffic is heavy, the gaps will be shorter, therefore those that have been patient and are over in lane 1 earlier may feel a little aggrieved when some one over takes, and jumps into the "gap" they created for themselves causing them to lift off the gas or brake.
It'll be this. ANYTHING that causes another driver to lift (out of caution) if not to slow, let alone brake, risks a negative reaction. Let's face it, last minute exits are commonplace and a frequent cause of near misses and accidents. I suspect you're perceived to be in that group of drivers who seem to leave exits as late as possible to make progress.1. My wife and I are driving down the M27 on Sunday and coming off at the next slip road; I'm driving. We're in lane 2 overtaking a range of vehicles in lane 1, and I spot quite a good sized gap in lane 1, which, by the time I get to it, will be about half a mile to a quarter of a mile from the exit. Perfect. When I get alongside the car at the back of the gap, I check all is still well and indicate. Then, after a polite pause and when my car is in a suitable safe place in the gap, I check and the car at the rear hasn't sped up and all is still safe, so I slowly move over and cancel the indicator when all four wheels are within the lane. Not much slowing down needed and the gap was perfectly safe.
It doesn't sound as if traffic was light. If it was, why the need for so much road positioning and and slowing at all? Secondly, if you start the move at the lower end of your distance estimate, you are only going to get into the ns lane a hundred yards or so before the exit and that is going to be very late in the eyes of some drivers. It does appear you don't believe you did anything wrong but if you are getting reactions from other drivers you must be doing something wrong, at least in their eyes.
I see people making what I would call unnecessary and last minute exits all the time. Whilst I never feel the need to admonish them in any way, I can see why others would, especially if they are very risk averse, or, as I say, they have to make any adjustment at all to accommodate what they regard as a poor bit of driving. I think what goes through their mind, is what goes through mine - why couldn't you have got into the right lane a lot further back up the road?
half a mile = 880 yards
quarter of a mile = 440 yards
If it's a polite pause before the III marker, I see no problem on a lightly trafficed motorway if there's a nice big gap. This wasn't a last minute dash on a crowded rush hour motorway, we were coming back from the coast from a day out - there were a few cars in lane one and a very light scattering in lanes two and three.
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