It's right for the night...
Discussion
R_U_LOCAL said:
If you are driving in <100M visibility, your rear foglights are a priority to ensure traffic approaching from the rear can see you, but once you can see the headlights of following traffic in your mirror, it's usually best to switch off your foglights, because if you can see their headlights, they'll be able to see your tail lights without foglight assistance. Don't forget that rear foglights can mask your brake lights and make it more likely that a following vehicle will not see when you are slowing down.
+1I've always done this, especially important for following traffic to be able to see your brake lights. Let's encourage thinking drivers
daz6215 said:
I would personally like to see manufactures get rid of side lights on the switch, too many people use then when conditions require dipped beam. Lights should be on or off when driving i.e. dipped beam and nothing in between, side lights are of no use to any one when driving and if they are needed when parking the dipped beam should revert to them when the ignition is off!
What would you then use for parking? When parking on a road with a speed limit of 40mph or greater after dark it's a legal requirement to leave your lights on, which means switching your lights to the sidelight position. I remember school Christmas carol services at St Gabriel's Church in Blackburn on Brownhill Drive where nearly every member of the congregation would get booked by the police for disobeying this rule. The vicar ended up having to stand in the pulpit and tell everyone before the service to go out and switch their lights on before the police turned up. Not often traffic law gets preached from the church pulpit.
You might think so if it's an urban or residential road with lots of parked cars along it and maybe some street lighting as well. If you think about one car parked on an unlit road you want to see it as soon as possible, though in that situation use of the hazard lights as well as or instead of the sidelights and tail lights might be appropriate.
daz6215 said:
I would personally like to see manufactures get rid of side lights on the switch, too many people use then when conditions require dipped beam. Lights should be on or off when driving i.e. dipped beam and nothing in between, side lights are of no use to any one when driving and if they are needed when parking the dipped beam should revert to them when the ignition is off!
Don't forget that in the event of a headlight bulb failing the sidelight acts as a marker light so the car isn't totally unlit on one side. If a bulb fails when on the move you still want the sidelight lit when the car is moving.
Could I just add the importance of keeping your light lenses clean?
Wetter roads, spray combined with dirty run off water can mean your rear light lenses are filthy after only a few short journeys or even during a long journey.
A quick spit-n-wipe with some tissues is all it takes.
If you're not one to check your lights at the start of every journey, then at least have a walk around the vehicle and clean them every time you fill up.
I live in a rural area where having a 4x4 caked with an inch of dirt is de rigueur. I think farmers with tractors have finally cottoned on to the sheer stupidity of not keeping their lights clean and working (sometime offset by having a rotating orange beacon). Horsey types towing their trailers with knackered lights are just a lost cause IMO.
Wetter roads, spray combined with dirty run off water can mean your rear light lenses are filthy after only a few short journeys or even during a long journey.
A quick spit-n-wipe with some tissues is all it takes.
If you're not one to check your lights at the start of every journey, then at least have a walk around the vehicle and clean them every time you fill up.
I live in a rural area where having a 4x4 caked with an inch of dirt is de rigueur. I think farmers with tractors have finally cottoned on to the sheer stupidity of not keeping their lights clean and working (sometime offset by having a rotating orange beacon). Horsey types towing their trailers with knackered lights are just a lost cause IMO.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Additionally, drivers must use (dipped) headlights during the hours of darkness (half-an-hour after sunset until half-an-hour before sunrise),except when using a road which has lit street lighting, in which case the only legal requirement is to use sidelights.
Strictly this is only on restricted roads (despite the highway code implying otherwise). I've seen someone turn their headlights off in a lit section of motorway then turn them back on afterwards, not the safest (or even legal) behaviour!R_U_LOCAL said:
Its also a legal requirement to use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (generally when, due to weather conditions or perhaps smoke, visibility is reduced to less than 100 metres).
Note that there is no legal requirement to use foglights when visibility is seriously reduced. The legislation outlines when you should not use foglights, but there is no law which states that you have to use them.
Interestingly if you have front fogs on you don't need front headlights as well to comply with the law regarding reduced visibility. Obviously this only applies during the day.Note that there is no legal requirement to use foglights when visibility is seriously reduced. The legislation outlines when you should not use foglights, but there is no law which states that you have to use them.
Just a suggestion.
We no longer get the kind of frequent, heavy fog that legislation regarding the use of dedicated forward lights addressed decades ago. To the best of my knowledge C&U regs allow the use of front fog lamps, day or night without headlamps, when used in conjunction with side lamps and only in appropriate conditions.
In my view their modern day application is pretty much redundant. 40-50 years ago most cars were fitted with sealed beam, or otherwise poor, headlamps that spread light indiscriminately that was then reflected back in foggy conditions hindering forward visibility. Dedicated fog lamps spread a wide, flat, low beam addressed this but only when the headlamps were extinguished. This was only useful at very low speeds that only allowed the driver to identify little more than the edge and centre of the road. Remember this was in an era when hazard warning lights were new and high intensity rear fog lamps were unheard of but fog/smog was common.
Skip forward and there are many modern, high tech cars that have headlamps that are so useless that driving at night in rural conditions, is often improved, illegally, by the the use of front fogs. Early Vauxhall Insignias are just one of many examples where the abysmal (non HID) lamps with low to high beam switch had to be improved with a manufacturer change to low beam PLUS high beam. That doesn't address the fact that the only possible use of the low beam is a day time running light and at night you may as well be running with candles for headlamps.
With decades of EU legislation driving dictating what manufacturers must, or must not do, why is it that in 2014 there are still cars sold, in vast numbers, that have headlamps that a 1970's vintage car can easily outperform?
We no longer get the kind of frequent, heavy fog that legislation regarding the use of dedicated forward lights addressed decades ago. To the best of my knowledge C&U regs allow the use of front fog lamps, day or night without headlamps, when used in conjunction with side lamps and only in appropriate conditions.
In my view their modern day application is pretty much redundant. 40-50 years ago most cars were fitted with sealed beam, or otherwise poor, headlamps that spread light indiscriminately that was then reflected back in foggy conditions hindering forward visibility. Dedicated fog lamps spread a wide, flat, low beam addressed this but only when the headlamps were extinguished. This was only useful at very low speeds that only allowed the driver to identify little more than the edge and centre of the road. Remember this was in an era when hazard warning lights were new and high intensity rear fog lamps were unheard of but fog/smog was common.
Skip forward and there are many modern, high tech cars that have headlamps that are so useless that driving at night in rural conditions, is often improved, illegally, by the the use of front fogs. Early Vauxhall Insignias are just one of many examples where the abysmal (non HID) lamps with low to high beam switch had to be improved with a manufacturer change to low beam PLUS high beam. That doesn't address the fact that the only possible use of the low beam is a day time running light and at night you may as well be running with candles for headlamps.
With decades of EU legislation driving dictating what manufacturers must, or must not do, why is it that in 2014 there are still cars sold, in vast numbers, that have headlamps that a 1970's vintage car can easily outperform?
Only twice in 20 years I have driven in [b]extremely[b] thick "foggy" conditions that made seeing the road surface difficult ...and one of those was at the top of the Grossglocknerstrasse. Even driving along lanes across the fields is rarely foggy, beyond a bit of mist. The FOG matrix boards on motorways are normally "crying wolf", although some people do fail to slow at all to match a genuine reduction in forward visibility.
One of our cars has front fogs and one doesn't. Both have good dipped and main beams. Not having front fogs is not a problem at all. If it were, they would probably be compulsory.
One of our cars has front fogs and one doesn't. Both have good dipped and main beams. Not having front fogs is not a problem at all. If it were, they would probably be compulsory.
SVS said:
You did the Grossglockner in thick fog 
I'd love to ride the Grossglockner, and will do some day, but dread to imagine it in the fog.
I was driving our Mondeo, not the bike. It was clear at the bottom on the northern side, the rain came in and we were in thick foggy cloud at the higher bits. I was straining to see the white lines and the edge bollards, but was going very slowly. It wasn't too bad. I didn't have fog lights and it was daylight-ish.I'd love to ride the Grossglockner, and will do some day, but dread to imagine it in the fog.
It was clear and good fun on the descent down the southern side.
We were listening to Bond themes throughout, of course
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 28th October 13:39
Blakewater said:
daz6215 said:
I would personally like to see manufactures get rid of side lights on the switch, too many people use then when conditions require dipped beam. Lights should be on or off when driving i.e. dipped beam and nothing in between, side lights are of no use to any one when driving and if they are needed when parking the dipped beam should revert to them when the ignition is off!
What would you then use for parking? When parking on a road with a speed limit of 40mph or greater after dark it's a legal requirement to leave your lights on, which means switching your lights to the sidelight position. I remember school Christmas carol services at St Gabriel's Church in Blackburn on Brownhill Drive where nearly every member of the congregation would get booked by the police for disobeying this rule. The vicar ended up having to stand in the pulpit and tell everyone before the service to go out and switch their lights on before the police turned up. Not often traffic law gets preached from the church pulpit.
ch108 said:
daz6215 said:
I would personally like to see manufactures get rid of side lights on the switch, too many people use then when conditions require dipped beam. Lights should be on or off when driving i.e. dipped beam and nothing in between, side lights are of no use to any one when driving and if they are needed when parking the dipped beam should revert to them when the ignition is off!
Don't forget that in the event of a headlight bulb failing the sidelight acts as a marker light so the car isn't totally unlit on one side. If a bulb fails when on the move you still want the sidelight lit when the car is moving.SVS said:
You did the Grossglockner in thick fog
I'd love to ride the Grossglockner, and will do some day, but dread to imagine it in the fog.
I did this road:I'd love to ride the Grossglockner, and will do some day, but dread to imagine it in the fog.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@24.1703926,121.2405...
Route 8, sorry no street view from Taiwan but you can see the number of bends.
I did it at night, in drizzle, in thick fog.
It was mental. I was the most difficult drive I've ever done in my life. The fog was so thick that I couldn't see much beyond the edge of the road periodically sounded the horn as I would have had NFI if anything was coming.
R_U_LOCAL said:
The problem with driving in fog is that any bright light you display to the front is reflected back at you by the fog itself (or by the tiny water droplets which make up fog if you want to be technical).
And any bright light you display to the rear illuminates the fog behind you, meaning the person behind you is prevented from seeing anything very well that's further ahead than the tiny water droplets right in front of them, which is another reason forR_U_LOCAL said:
If you are driving in <100M visibility, your rear foglights are a priority to ensure traffic approaching from the rear can see you, but once you can see the headlights of following traffic in your mirror, it's usually best to switch off your foglights
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff