Fast Response Paramedic Drivers

[Byteme]

I drive around a bit but the same idiotic driving I have experienced for years was equally proven, again, today while making a short eight mile round trip to my local branch of Screwfix.

Many of these Fast Response drivers are absolute lunatics behind the wheel and whatever technical training they are given seems to totally at odds with the people/medical skills they are no doubt blessed with.

Today: Para in opposite two lane approach to traffic lights. Traffic moves aside and after moving between/around/outside them he "guns" his Volvo without giving a flying "f!" about the crossing traffic.

You could see the him snatch the steering wheel one way and then the other, having no idea of car control but I bet the vehicle's DSC corrected anything he attempted. The look of sheer terror on his face was obvious. I have seen this same terror on the face of these drivers so many times. Fear, provoked because they are trying to control their car way in excess of their ability.

Police/Fire/normal ambulance, with very few exceptions are never a problem, in my experience.

I would assert, the natural aptitude that suits a caring profession is totally at odds with those who can operate a fast response car at speed.

This is not a one off and I put these guys in the same category as Subaru, Nissan Micra and stolen car drivers that you never want to be around.

Edited by Byteme on Saturday 11th October 23:47

[conanius]

Aaand let's give some balance.

Brother in law is a volunteer first responder, and his driving is superb, some of the best I've seen. I'm not saying superb because I've seen him do 100mph in a 30 past a school - I haven't and he wouldn't - but because he has superb awareness, and no matter what he is responding too, he won't go beyond his limits - in short, he won't let emotion cloud his driving judgement and training.

So, your post should read - I saw someone do something questionable, and I have no idea of the pressure they were under. I hope it wasn't a friend/family member fighting for their life when every second counted.

[deltashad]

agree

[Medic-one]

Byteme said:

Police/Fire/normal ambulance, with very few exceptions are never a problem, in my experience.

You can't start off on a rapid response car, you'll start on a normal ambulance first, and after a few years experience you can work as a solo responder, so we have plenty of experience blue light diving before we are work on the RRV's (rapid response vehicle).

So because you've seen one guy drive too fast for your liking, and in the couple seconds he drove past you you were able to fully assess his level of car control, all of us are lunatics....

At the end of the day we all want to go home at the end of the shift, and there's no point putting yourself and others at risk as you won't get to your patient if you cause an accident on the way.

Medic one
Non Lunatic RRV responder.

[izzzzythedog]

if i was face down in my own blood i wouldnt want driving miss daisy to rock up feeling fully refreshed after a trundle in the country taking in the view and waving to her friends

i also make the odd mistake ,,,, go figure , im human

and no im not a paramedic but do know they are not and can never be a target to be questioned

[lel]

One of those fast response cars caused an accident for my dad last year thanks to them overtaking on a blind corner in the wet, leaving my dad to decide whether to run off the road or face a head on with a big Volvo traveling at an alarming rate.


bds

[Byteme]

Medic-one said:

You can't start off on a rapid response car, you'll start on a normal ambulance first, and after a few years experience you can work as a solo responder, so we have plenty of experience blue light diving before we are work on the RRV's (rapid response vehicle).

So because you've seen one guy drive too fast for your liking, and in the couple seconds he drove past you you were able to fully assess his level of car control, all of us are lunatics....

At the end of the day we all want to go home at the end of the shift, and there's no point putting yourself and others at risk as you won't get to your patient if you cause an accident on the way.

Medic one
Non Lunatic RRV responder.

In this instance it had little to do with speed as I doubt was doing any more than 30mph limit appropriate for the area. My concern, and I see this repeatedly, is that he, and a significant number of his peers, take unnecessary chances and are not fully in control of their vehicles. In this cases demonstrated by his snatching the steering wheel back and forth by the look of fear on the drivers face.

Clearly it's not all but your never see his kind of behaviour in relation to a police traffic car.

[vonhosen]

izzzzythedog said:

if i was face down in my own blood i wouldnt want driving miss daisy to rock up feeling fully refreshed after a trundle in the country taking in the view and waving to her friends

i also make the odd mistake ,,,, go figure , im human

and no im not a paramedic but do know they are not and can never be a target to be questioned

Anyone can & should be a able to be questioned.
It's not a case of absolutely anything is acceptable.

[vonhosen]

Byteme said:

Clearly it's not all but your never see his kind of behaviour in relation to a police traffic car.

If you look at 'all', you'll see some.
Ideally you wouldn't, but humans are fallible (in all the emergency services & elsewhere).

[Nigel Worc's]

vonhosen said:

Byteme said:

Clearly it's not all but your never see his kind of behaviour in relation to a police traffic car.

If you look at 'all', you'll see some.
Ideally you wouldn't, but humans are fallible (in all the emergency services & elsewhere).

I feel the need to chip in here.

I have never seen a Police traffic car take bad risks, the odd panda or van, but not traffic.

I too have seen these paramedic cars do some horrendous things locally, never ambulances, just the small paramedic vehicles. I saw one clip a kerb in Worcester a week or two back, I thought it was going to roll, it actually went onto three wheels, a Honda CRV I think.

[R0G]

not fair to judge all by one but I would have been in touch with their boss asap

[vonhosen]

Nigel Worc's said:

vonhosen said:

Byteme said:

Clearly it's not all but your never see his kind of behaviour in relation to a police traffic car.

If you look at 'all', you'll see some.
Ideally you wouldn't, but humans are fallible (in all the emergency services & elsewhere).

I feel the need to chip in here.

I have never seen a Police traffic car take bad risks, the odd panda or van, but not traffic.

I too have seen these paramedic cars do some horrendous things locally, never ambulances, just the small paramedic vehicles. I saw one clip a kerb in Worcester a week or two back, I thought it was going to roll, it actually went onto three wheels, a Honda CRV I think.

I've probably seen a lot more (of all types) of Police drivers than you have though Nigel, good or bad.

A quick trawl of the news can bring up examples of traffic officers taking unnecessary risks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/795041...

[Martin4x4]

Are you sure these are NHS Paramedics (who receive advanced driver training) and not First Responders (who generally do not)?

Can't say I've noticed this but did hear an interesting and possible related item on R4 News last week. The Ambulance service has lost around 1 in 10 paramedics in recent years because of funding cuts and pay freezes. This is more acute in the senior ranks because they can easily get better jobs in the private sector as glorified first aiders with better pay, sociable hours and less stress.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Nigel Worc's said:

I have never seen a Police traffic car take bad risks, the odd panda or van, but not traffic.

I have, plenty of times.

Now I'm out of the job I can also be honest enough to say that I've taken some risks in the past which, in hindsight, needed an element of luck to pull off.

There are two elements of emergency response and pursuit driving which are entirely dependent on the driver's own mental state. They are red mist and noble cause risk taking.

We're all familiar with red mist - it's the situation when a drivers emotions take over and their ability to make realistic dynamic risk assessments is seriously hampered by the amount of adrenaline being produced by their body. The adrenaline puts their body in "fight or flight" mode, which is a throwback to our animal days where the body is quickly prepared for running away or fighting by the affects of adrenaline - raised heart rate and blood pressure, and - worryingly for drivers - a tunnelling of their vision and reduction in awareness of their hearing. Fine motor skills become much more difficult and it dramatically changes a driver's thinking process.

Red mist shifts a driver's thinking on to the target or goal - the incident they are attending or the subject they are pursuing - rather than thinking about the job at hand - the driving.

The second element I mentioned - noble cause risk taking - allows drivers to justify their poor decisions by claiming that they are necessary because someone's life is at risk, or there is some other "noble cause" to justify their risky behaviour. Even for a driver who is fully in control of their emotions, noble cause risk taking can creep into their driving and create very real dangers.

Good quality driver training can help - if you're affected by red mist, for instance, a good grounding in systematic driving can at least give you a good "baseline" standard of driving to fall back on when the adrenaline is flowing.

But, ultimately, it's down to to individual drivers and their ability to recognise when these issues are arising, and having the ability to overcome them and keep their attention fully on the driving.

It's very easy to criticise an emergency driver for one poorly judged manoeuvre when you've never been in that situation yourself, or experienced the pressures involved in carrying out those duties.

Edited by R_U_LOCAL on Sunday 12th October 14:26

[Byteme]

R0G said:

not fair to judge all by one but I would have been in touch with their boss asap

I wasn't judging all by one. I've witnessed many examples of poor judgement and "car thief" control on the part of the first responders.

[R0G]

Byteme said:

I wasn't judging all by one. I've witnessed many examples of poor judgement and "car thief" control on the part of the first responders.

I was generalising

[daz6215]

Byteme said:

I wasn't judging all by one. I've witnessed many examples of poor judgement and "car thief" control on the part of the first responders.

So what is the way forward to address this problem?

[Byteme]

daz6215 said:

So what is the way forward to address this problem?

They must receive a high level of training before they're enabled to carry out this role but in my experience, far too often, they go into "car thief" mode.

My comments are limited to urban environments where I've also observed that in most cases they often arrive at scene well after the usual ambulance is on site so, perhaps, you have to ask first whether many of their tasks were ever necessary in the first place.

[daz6215]

Byteme said:

They must receive a high level of training before they're enabled to carry out this role but in my experience, far too often, they go into "car thief" mode.

My comments are limited to urban environments where I've also observed that in most cases they often arrive at scene well after the usual ambulance is on site so, perhaps, you have to ask first whether many of their tasks were ever necessary in the first place.

What type of training would you recommend to address this sort of behaviour?

[Byteme]

daz6215 said:

What type of training would you recommend to address this sort of behaviour?

I think the training is, and has always been, in place. My estimation is that once completed, driving becomes a secondary task and lessons taught are forgotten.