Discussion
As i come of the dual carriageway and approach the roundabout it splits into 3 lanes. The nearside lane is indicated by an arrow which feeds straight off to the shopping complex. The middle lane ( and the one i use ) is indicated on the tarmac with IKEA and has a dotted line feeding from the middle lane to the first exit ( the same as the nearside lane )where it takes you towards the Cardiff IKEA.
I want to carry right round the roundabout and come of the third exit. Just as you pass the first exit there is another set of lights and on the tarmac it is listed as Cardiff/Dinnas on both the nearside and middle lane and Barry on the outside.
I've tried to show by marking the way I approach the roundabout in RED but occasional people use the GREEN and straight away cut across after the first exit to get into the appropriate lane for DINAS which is on the third exit. They seem to believe at the start of the roundabout the middle lane is purely for IKEA.
Surely IKEA havent got so much sway to have their own private lane. I should add that I got into a good confrontation this morning but luckily I have a typical Pistonhead build!
I hope this makes sence!
I want to carry right round the roundabout and come of the third exit. Just as you pass the first exit there is another set of lights and on the tarmac it is listed as Cardiff/Dinnas on both the nearside and middle lane and Barry on the outside.
I've tried to show by marking the way I approach the roundabout in RED but occasional people use the GREEN and straight away cut across after the first exit to get into the appropriate lane for DINAS which is on the third exit. They seem to believe at the start of the roundabout the middle lane is purely for IKEA.
Surely IKEA havent got so much sway to have their own private lane. I should add that I got into a good confrontation this morning but luckily I have a typical Pistonhead build!
I hope this makes sence!
Edited by Chipper on Saturday 29th November 10:45
Neither of you are right. HTH
My maxim is 'never turn with any other road user', and if you do that you can't come into conflict. Lane discipline is poor and arguning the toss after a 'handbags at 12 paces' scrape is pointless because it will always end up as a 'knock-for-knock' from an insurance point of view.
Looking at that junction, I think I'd tend to be in lane 3, particularly if local knowledge tells me that a majority of the traffic wants to be in the centre lane as soon as it gets onto the roundabout because the Mecca for aspirational shoppers lies off that particular boulevard.
My maxim is 'never turn with any other road user', and if you do that you can't come into conflict. Lane discipline is poor and arguning the toss after a 'handbags at 12 paces' scrape is pointless because it will always end up as a 'knock-for-knock' from an insurance point of view.
Looking at that junction, I think I'd tend to be in lane 3, particularly if local knowledge tells me that a majority of the traffic wants to be in the centre lane as soon as it gets onto the roundabout because the Mecca for aspirational shoppers lies off that particular boulevard.
To answer your question in simple terms, if you're turning right at that roundabout, intending to leave at the third exit, then you should approach this roundabout in the right-hand lane, rather than the middle lane.
The lane markings on the roundabout make it a "turbo roundabout" (yes, really!). If you look at how the lanes are marked on the roundabout itself, they are designed to direct vehicles outwards from the centre, as they move around the junction. So in your case, a right-hand lane approach will leave you in the right-hand lane, close to the centre of the roundabout at the first set of lights. As you move off from those lights, a new lane "blends in" from the centre of the roundabout, and your right-hand lane then becomes the centre lane without you having to swap lanes.
Stay in that lane, and as you approach the third exit, there are two lanes on which you can exit, so just perform an offside lane exit and you're on your way.
Incidentally, I've never been a fan of traffic light-controlled roundabouts, but its nice to see one with some appropriately positioned box junction markings. Highways Agency take note - any chance of doing the same at Simister Island as part of the ongoing M60 works?
Please?
The lane markings on the roundabout make it a "turbo roundabout" (yes, really!). If you look at how the lanes are marked on the roundabout itself, they are designed to direct vehicles outwards from the centre, as they move around the junction. So in your case, a right-hand lane approach will leave you in the right-hand lane, close to the centre of the roundabout at the first set of lights. As you move off from those lights, a new lane "blends in" from the centre of the roundabout, and your right-hand lane then becomes the centre lane without you having to swap lanes.
Stay in that lane, and as you approach the third exit, there are two lanes on which you can exit, so just perform an offside lane exit and you're on your way.
Incidentally, I've never been a fan of traffic light-controlled roundabouts, but its nice to see one with some appropriately positioned box junction markings. Highways Agency take note - any chance of doing the same at Simister Island as part of the ongoing M60 works?
Please?
Do IKEA need "sway" to have their "own" lane? Or just a high volume of traffic?
I'd have said L1 on the slip was left turn L1, L2 on the slip for left L2/L3 (doubling-up to avoid backing onto r'a'b) or L1 on the r'a'b, L3 on the slip to L2 r'a'b.
So, yes, I'm with green on this. Red is muppetry. But, regardless of that, to get into a "good confrontation", both people are clearly driving like pushy-shovey muppets. Not big, not clever.
I'd have said L1 on the slip was left turn L1, L2 on the slip for left L2/L3 (doubling-up to avoid backing onto r'a'b) or L1 on the r'a'b, L3 on the slip to L2 r'a'b.
So, yes, I'm with green on this. Red is muppetry. But, regardless of that, to get into a "good confrontation", both people are clearly driving like pushy-shovey muppets. Not big, not clever.
The difficulty is that I would say 95% of people go the red way and go across . I should add that as you come off the dual carriageway just at the point that the road turns into 3 lanes for the roundabout the road markings clearly show which lane to be in but the middle lane just states IKEA . L3 clearly states BARRY and this is before you enter the roundabout. What I find difficulty in is if L3 is used to access the roundabout for both destinations on the third exit there simply would not be enough room to safely allow the amount of traffic onto the roundabout and as such I would imagine it would back up onto the dual carriageway.
Though I appreciate that if going off at the third exit you should normally be in L3 the road markings lead you to get into the appropriate lane straight away. I think the problem is that people are taking it as it's purely an ikea lane with the dotted line marking leading off to the first exit, which surely can't be the case.
I think I need to get a better google earth image to show the start of the approach as I see many near misses and arguments at this section. Bloody ikea!
I should add that my confrontation this morning was simply someone who decided to prove a point by trying to push me into into Lane 1 .. It was only when he got so close to my window that he calmed down.
Though I appreciate that if going off at the third exit you should normally be in L3 the road markings lead you to get into the appropriate lane straight away. I think the problem is that people are taking it as it's purely an ikea lane with the dotted line marking leading off to the first exit, which surely can't be the case.
I think I need to get a better google earth image to show the start of the approach as I see many near misses and arguments at this section. Bloody ikea!
I should add that my confrontation this morning was simply someone who decided to prove a point by trying to push me into into Lane 1 .. It was only when he got so close to my window that he calmed down.
Edited by Chipper on Saturday 29th November 16:44
If someone with proper experience could be kind enough to google earth the destination and just street view it and go around the destination from the point of leaving the dual carriageway you might understand why i would love to know if I'm right or wrong as I would like to approach the highways agency and see if things can be improved.
The dual carriageway is the A4232 and near the end of it. The first exit off is the Ferry road retail park and the third exit is onto the A4055 towards Penarth , Dinas and Barrry. If you put in. Penarth hopefully you will find it.
Much appreciated.
The dual carriageway is the A4232 and near the end of it. The first exit off is the Ferry road retail park and the third exit is onto the A4055 towards Penarth , Dinas and Barrry. If you put in. Penarth hopefully you will find it.
Much appreciated.
Chipper said:
I should add that my confrontation this morning was simply someone who decided to prove a point by trying to push me into into Lane 1 .. It was only when he got so close to my window that he calmed down.
Sounds like two people trying to "prove a point", and the other guy gave in before you did...TooMany2cvs said:
Sounds like two people trying to "prove a point", and the other guy gave in before you did...
No it wasn't like that at all and if I was a knuckle driver I wouldn't be trying to find out who is correct on here. I've witnessed many similar incidents to what happened to me today and as such I first want to find out who's right as I believe the road markings are causing the problem. TooMany2cvs said:
So you went "Oh, look, he's in the wrong lane and trying to move over - I'll ease off and give him space..."?
Oh god have you nothing better to do than this. Is this what makes you feel important in life? I've come on here to try to find someone who has proper knowledge on car positioning like a traffic officer or advanced driving instructor not to have to read what you feel happened .Edited by Chipper on Saturday 29th November 18:47
https://goo.gl/maps/Eu8nO
1. Following the broken lines from lane two of the slip suggest to me that a move to lane 1 or 2 of the roundabout is a change of lanes, if you are going to do that, treat it like any other lane change, i.e. check mirrors and move over when safe.
2. If someone here can give you a 'definitive' answer as to who is in the right, how will that make dealing with this roundabout safer?
3. Cool steering technique from the Clio Williams driver
1. Following the broken lines from lane two of the slip suggest to me that a move to lane 1 or 2 of the roundabout is a change of lanes, if you are going to do that, treat it like any other lane change, i.e. check mirrors and move over when safe.
2. If someone here can give you a 'definitive' answer as to who is in the right, how will that make dealing with this roundabout safer?
3. Cool steering technique from the Clio Williams driver
7mike said:
https://goo.gl/maps/Eu8nO
1. Following the broken lines from lane two of the slip suggest to me that a move to lane 1 or 2 of the roundabout is a change of lanes, if you are going to do that, treat it like any other lane change, i.e. check mirrors and move over when safe.
2. If someone here can give you a 'definitive' answer as to who is in the right, how will that make dealing with this roundabout safer?
3. Cool steering technique from the Clio Williams driver
Thanks Mike,1. Following the broken lines from lane two of the slip suggest to me that a move to lane 1 or 2 of the roundabout is a change of lanes, if you are going to do that, treat it like any other lane change, i.e. check mirrors and move over when safe.
2. If someone here can give you a 'definitive' answer as to who is in the right, how will that make dealing with this roundabout safer?
3. Cool steering technique from the Clio Williams driver
I think the answer to 2 is instead of just IKEA I would of thought an Arrow marker pointing lane position or maybe IKEA / DINAS. I just find it difficult to see moving from L3 into L2 after starting the roundabout safe and especially if it's very busy.
Chipper said:
Thanks Mike,
I think the answer to 2 is instead of just IKEA I would of thought an Arrow marker pointing lane position or maybe IKEA / DINAS. I just find it difficult to see moving from L3 into L2 after starting the roundabout safe and especially if it's very busy.
It doesn't look particularly clear granted; whatever choice you make, someone else will probably choose differently! Keep an eye on traffic to the sides, stay in a flexible gear and be able to back off/boot it (a well known technical term) as the circumstances see fit. The aim; to have space to the sides not to win/teach someone a lesson/prove a point.I think the answer to 2 is instead of just IKEA I would of thought an Arrow marker pointing lane position or maybe IKEA / DINAS. I just find it difficult to see moving from L3 into L2 after starting the roundabout safe and especially if it's very busy.
7mike said:
It doesn't look particularly clear granted; whatever choice you make, someone else will probably choose differently! Keep an eye on traffic to the sides, stay in a flexible gear and be able to back off/boot it (a well known technical term) as the circumstances see fit. The aim; to have space to the sides not to win/teach someone a lesson/prove a point.
Yeah always try to but the more I think about it the more it looks incorrect. if L3 is the only proper way to enter the roundabout ( which I agree is the correct approach ) to depart on the third exit to Dinas / Barry then we are pretty much saying L2 sole purpose is for IKEA or getting back onto the duel carriageway again.All seems highly unlikely as its a pretty major roundabout and we have the issue of space getting on the roundabout especially as the lights are timed to stop straight away as you enter the roundabout from where I start.
Chipper said:
Oh god have you nothing better to do than this. Is this what makes you feel important in life? I've come on here to try to find someone who has proper knowledge on car positioning like a traffic officer or advanced driving instructor not to have to read what you feel happened .
Well both Reg & I have posted (he was a Police Instructor IIRCC and I've been known to dabble a bit)...Edited by Chipper on Saturday 29th November 18:47
The simple answer is that you got involved with another road user so you're wrong. Every road user is an idiot and that includes you - sooner or later they're going to do some thing unexpected and, from your point of view, bone-headed. Claiming the supposed moral high ground because you were 'right' and he was 'wrong' doesn't help when you're looking at the deformed shape that was once your pride and joy.
Now, with that little diatribe in mind, wouldn't it have been better if you found a way such that no matter what the other drivers do, you'd be safe rather than coming on here to gain the approbation that the other bloke was wrong?
I've come on here asking for help for information on what is the correct way to approach this roundabout. The comment of the dispute was not something I wanted to discuss as it was nothing and more tongue in cheek.
I crossed from L2 , behind two other vehicles in the flow of traffic. We all approached the next set of lights which were going red. We were all probably doing less than 5 mph as the next set of lights were already going to red so we all new we were going to stop.
I must of been about 10 ft from the stationary vehicle at the lights creeping forward when a vehicle in L3 came up at speed and moved straight across in the gap. No signal that I was aware of and positioned his car which was now blocking L3 and L2. All I could do was come to a stop as I had nowhere else to go. Did I rant and rave for having a chap use his vehicle in an aggressive manner ,NO . He proceeded to wind his window down and I feel was about to be verbal towards me ( at this point I couldn't do anything as I was stuck by his car and the stationary car in front and to the back of me) but he calmed down to the point of just saying that I should of followed the dotted lines. Lights tuned Green and I just let him through.
My father was a police driver in greater manchester police force and I spent a considerable amount of time with him teaching me to drive and also having his driving instructor in the force take me out several times. as well as that I had very useful input on how to deal with people
. I've done regular courses to try to keep up to date. The last was an advanced police driving instructor who ate Lockets all day long and whom I believe advertised on here ( it was a few years ago) I'm not into confrontation and treat everyone as a fool on the road including myself. I came on here simply wanting to know who was right and I was quite prepared to be told L3 is the right way. But more importantly I feel that the council / highways agency need to make the road markings clearer as I have watched multiple incidents of similar things happening including a mother with children in her car be verbally abused.
It seems as of yet no one is 100% sure of a definite answer and maybe there isn't one.
Sometimes you read things via email and text and don't get the context of how it was meant. This has yet again shown me why I don't do twitter or facebook.
I crossed from L2 , behind two other vehicles in the flow of traffic. We all approached the next set of lights which were going red. We were all probably doing less than 5 mph as the next set of lights were already going to red so we all new we were going to stop.
I must of been about 10 ft from the stationary vehicle at the lights creeping forward when a vehicle in L3 came up at speed and moved straight across in the gap. No signal that I was aware of and positioned his car which was now blocking L3 and L2. All I could do was come to a stop as I had nowhere else to go. Did I rant and rave for having a chap use his vehicle in an aggressive manner ,NO . He proceeded to wind his window down and I feel was about to be verbal towards me ( at this point I couldn't do anything as I was stuck by his car and the stationary car in front and to the back of me) but he calmed down to the point of just saying that I should of followed the dotted lines. Lights tuned Green and I just let him through.
My father was a police driver in greater manchester police force and I spent a considerable amount of time with him teaching me to drive and also having his driving instructor in the force take me out several times. as well as that I had very useful input on how to deal with people
. I've done regular courses to try to keep up to date. The last was an advanced police driving instructor who ate Lockets all day long and whom I believe advertised on here ( it was a few years ago) I'm not into confrontation and treat everyone as a fool on the road including myself. I came on here simply wanting to know who was right and I was quite prepared to be told L3 is the right way. But more importantly I feel that the council / highways agency need to make the road markings clearer as I have watched multiple incidents of similar things happening including a mother with children in her car be verbally abused.
It seems as of yet no one is 100% sure of a definite answer and maybe there isn't one.
Sometimes you read things via email and text and don't get the context of how it was meant. This has yet again shown me why I don't do twitter or facebook.
Edited by Chipper on Sunday 30th November 07:26
Pints said:
Green is correct IMHO. Basing this on the road markings.
Yeah it seems that is the case but it's still looks very strange that L2 is simply for IKEA or to get back onto the duel carriageway that you would of just come off to get to the roundabout.Also there is a major problem that I would say the majority of users go red ( I've also witnessed a standard police car and van go red ) which means the road marking need to be sorted. I only use it two to three times a week and I must see at least three incidents a month from my very limited time on the roundabout.
Looking at the street view version from all approaches, green is the correct line IMHO.:
From the approach road:
Lane 1 should only turn left into Lane 1 or 2 of the road on the left.
Lane 2 should turn left into lane 3 or continue on to lane 1 of the roundabout.
Lane 3 should go on to lane 2 of the roundabout, changing lane to lane 3 if they are turning right.
I hate turbo roundabouts as this happens all the time. At least this one has good clues by using the dotted lines and a box junction protected by traffic light, which means the chance of meeting traffic coming Fromm the right on the roundabout is low (but should've zero!)
Steve
From the approach road:
Lane 1 should only turn left into Lane 1 or 2 of the road on the left.
Lane 2 should turn left into lane 3 or continue on to lane 1 of the roundabout.
Lane 3 should go on to lane 2 of the roundabout, changing lane to lane 3 if they are turning right.
I hate turbo roundabouts as this happens all the time. At least this one has good clues by using the dotted lines and a box junction protected by traffic light, which means the chance of meeting traffic coming Fromm the right on the roundabout is low (but should've zero!)
Steve
Thanks , I'm going to approach from L3 from now and just signal into lane two once I've crossed the yellowbox. Does anyone else feel that as you approach the roundabout using street view that instead of just Barry ( and then in welsh) it should be Barry / Dinas ? The last thing I want to do is waste my time on this but I'm looking at the rest of my life using this roundabout and something eventually is going to happen that could be serious.
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