I’ve been feeling horny lately…
Discussion
Jon1967x said:
It doesn't matter what your intentions are or how friendly you think a toot is or what happens in other parts of the world, here, in this country, on these roads, the horn is seen as a sign of aggression by the majority of people.
You can believe the majority of people are wrong because they react badly... Or you can accept that's the culture on these roads and adapt your driving style accordingly however frustrating you may feel that is.
Agreed - I'd rather do that and campaign for better driver education and attitude, which will take generations, even if the political will were to exist. I only use the horn where my reading of the situation is that the driver I'm about to overtake isn't aware of my presence or intentions AND if I think it will help - if that's not true I'll usually wait rather than get embroiled in someone else's stupidity - when people ask me just what "Advanced Driving" is (terrible term and I wish I could think of something better), my usual response is, "being able to anticipate when something bad is going to happen and arranging to be somewhere else at the time…".You can believe the majority of people are wrong because they react badly... Or you can accept that's the culture on these roads and adapt your driving style accordingly however frustrating you may feel that is.
gdaybruce said:
Interestingly, my wife uses the horn more than I do when approaching blind bends on country lanes.
My uncle does this and I'm not sure what he hopes to achieve. Is it a warning and if so to whom? A pedestrian, well they'd probably hear the engine, somebody on a horse which may get spooked, a car coming the other way.. relying on the toot to make it safe (or at least improve the safety)? I think is a comfort blanket and no more to the driver.Jon1967x said:
My uncle does this and I'm not sure what he hopes to achieve. Is it a warning and if so to whom? A pedestrian, well they'd probably hear the engine, somebody on a horse which may get spooked, a car coming the other way.. relying on the toot to make it safe (or at least improve the safety)? I think is a comfort blanket and no more to the driver.
This applies particularly to single car width country lanes with blind bends - think Devon or South Wales although plenty of other places have them too - where the only safe speed is likely to be less than 20 mph (a potential closing speed of 40mph). An oncoming vehicle will generally hear a horn toot and anyone who is travelling quicker than you would like is then warned. Horse riders (I speak as a former rider and horse owner) will hold back from blind bends if they hear a vehicle coming for obvious reasons and horses are not generally spooked by a horn a little way off. It's cars sounding their horns from just behind that do the damage!It is possible to make the horn sound non-aggressive. Personally I prefer to make multiple short notes in quick succession rather than a single longer note: "bip-bip-bip" instead of "beeeeep". I think it helps in drawing attention without sounding aggressive.
Also, when your horn note has succeeded in making the other person look your way, a smile and raise of the hand can defuse any potential offence the other person may have taken.
I do want one of those train horns though. I loved the way the enormous fat bloke barely even flinched.
Also, when your horn note has succeeded in making the other person look your way, a smile and raise of the hand can defuse any potential offence the other person may have taken.
I do want one of those train horns though. I loved the way the enormous fat bloke barely even flinched.
Here's Mason, teaching us how to take it to another level with the fast honk:
http://youtu.be/4KigFRmr8qM
http://youtu.be/4KigFRmr8qM
R_U_LOCAL said:
Jon1967x said:
I can't remember the last time I needed to use the horn in any of the good or bad circumstances you describe. I'd never use the horn behind a horse for instance, a little bit of patience and waiting for room seems a much more sensible option.
And using your horn because a car is starting to cut you up seems perfectly legitimate by the definition of whats acceptable. You are, after all, warning them of your presence in their blind spot.
Now what constitutes an acceptable honk is a valid debate, but personally I've found no matter how hard I press or for whatever purpose, the sound is pretty much the same, its just the duration that might change. Sorry, but in this case honking and then having to make eye contact to disarm the situation just seems wrong.
And therein lies the problem - your feelings about the use of the horn are shared by most of the motoring public.And using your horn because a car is starting to cut you up seems perfectly legitimate by the definition of whats acceptable. You are, after all, warning them of your presence in their blind spot.
Now what constitutes an acceptable honk is a valid debate, but personally I've found no matter how hard I press or for whatever purpose, the sound is pretty much the same, its just the duration that might change. Sorry, but in this case honking and then having to make eye contact to disarm the situation just seems wrong.
If we claim to be enthusiastic drivers or advanced drivers or just "better" drivers, we should be looking for and planning for emerging hazards. But if we spot an emerging hazard, what do we do about it? Well, there's all the avoidance tactics and safety positions and secondary plans of course, but what's wrong with using the horn as a signal to make people aware of your presence?
Nothing whatsoever - it's what the horn is designed for and it's what the highway code advises.
It's just that it has been misused so often for so long that people naturally assume that the horn user is being aggressive - hence my little tactic to take the aggression out of horn use.
And let's just be clear - I've no idea where the horse reference came from, but I've never suggested using the horn as a warning to horses. To be clear - horses are very easily startled and there are few things more dangerous than a ton of startled raw meat.
As for some other points raised in this thread , I still like the 'old' six-feature system ; I like its structure " a system , or drill , each feature of which is considered IN SEQUENCE by the driver on the approach to any hazard " and which specifically has a feature for consideration of use of the horn . Yes , I do quite regularly use it if passing buses at bus stops , on the approach to blind corners if the road width is restricted , if it seems that another driver hasn't seen me .
It has to be remembered , though , that use of the horn does not give 'carte blanche' to proceed - for example the other person might be deaf , or might have his stereo up so loud that he can't hear your warning ( pedestrians wearing headphones are another good example of this ) .
Red Devil said:
Fit something like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYvZHGDNlJE
Wired mine with a switch marked T/C so that I can select which are operative.
T=town C=country - the air horns are well OTT in town centres and residential areas
Town & Country horns , with a switch in the console , have been standard fare on top of range Mercs for many years , the video below shows a 600 driver demonstrating his ( this is standard factory fit , not a modification ) Wired mine with a switch marked T/C so that I can select which are operative.
T=town C=country - the air horns are well OTT in town centres and residential areas
https://youtu.be/uMzMPp_N7uQ
gdaybruce said:
The second occasion was this morning when a driver very deliberately - and while looking straight at me - pulled out across my path from a side road, forcing me to brake hard (from about 35mph) and to steer left to avoid him. Not a simple mistake - he was cynically forcing his way out rather than waiting for a suitable gap in the traffic. (It's a fairly busy junction in a 40mph zone but you never have to wait more than a few seconds to get out.) I freely admit that using the horn in that situation was no more than me venting my annoyance but it did make me feel slightly better that I'd expressed my opinion on his manners!
I must admit , despite not using the horn all that often myself , to doing similar quite recently .I was heading home on the A737 , traffic flowing freely at 50 or 60 ish , when completely without warning , the driver in front just anchored on to allow a waiting car to come out of a minor road on the left ; I was at a safe distance and there was no question of me not being able to stop , although I had to brake fairly hard once I realised what he was doing , but my worry was following traffic rear-ending me . I gave a sustained blast of my horn to wake the dozy driver up to the fact that I , and others , were behind and not expecting this silly move , then , having noted that the driver in the side road was not moving , I overtook the car in front of me , as did the following two drivers behind me .
Yes , it was partly 'I am here' , but there was also an element of rebuke in it that time .
Pontoneer said:
I must admit , despite not using the horn all that often myself , to doing similar quite recently .
I was heading home on the A737 , traffic flowing freely at 50 or 60 ish , when completely without warning , the driver in front just anchored on to allow a waiting car to come out of a minor road on the left ; I was at a safe distance and there was no question of me not being able to stop , although I had to brake fairly hard once I realised what he was doing , but my worry was following traffic rear-ending me . I gave a sustained blast of my horn to wake the dozy driver up to the fact that I , and others , were behind and not expecting this silly move , then , having noted that the driver in the side road was not moving , I overtook the car in front of me , as did the following two drivers behind me .
Yes , it was partly 'I am here' , but there was also an element of rebuke in it that time .
I'd say the driver in front of you formed the opinion that the waiting car was going to pull out, regardless of there being traffic which may or may not have been seen or if seen may not have registered in their brain. So they decided braking was preferable to t-boning them. I was heading home on the A737 , traffic flowing freely at 50 or 60 ish , when completely without warning , the driver in front just anchored on to allow a waiting car to come out of a minor road on the left ; I was at a safe distance and there was no question of me not being able to stop , although I had to brake fairly hard once I realised what he was doing , but my worry was following traffic rear-ending me . I gave a sustained blast of my horn to wake the dozy driver up to the fact that I , and others , were behind and not expecting this silly move , then , having noted that the driver in the side road was not moving , I overtook the car in front of me , as did the following two drivers behind me .
Yes , it was partly 'I am here' , but there was also an element of rebuke in it that time .
creampuff said:
I'd say the driver in front of you formed the opinion that the waiting car was going to pull out, regardless of there being traffic which may or may not have been seen or if seen may not have registered in their brain. So they decided braking was preferable to t-boning them.
Who can say what was going through his mind , but it was quite a wide open junction with good visibility at the end of a left hand bend and I saw the car in the side road waiting patiently with nothing to suggest he was going to move .I think the driver who just stopped in front of me was one of those well-meaning but thoughtless individuals who thinks stopping on a main road to let people out is courteous and doesn't consider traffic behind him , or the possible consequences of just stopping on a main road without warning .
Pontoneer said:
Town & Country horns , with a switch in the console , have been standard fare on top of range Mercs for many years , the video below shows a 600 driver demonstrating his ( this is standard factory fit , not a modification )
https://youtu.be/uMzMPp_N7uQ
My basic, 1957, bottom of range Renault Dauphine (other French cars were available) had standard fit Town & Country horns.https://youtu.be/uMzMPp_N7uQ
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
It is possible to make the horn sound non-aggressive. Personally I prefer to make multiple short notes in quick succession rather than a single longer note: "bip-bip-bip" instead of "beeeeep". I think it helps in drawing attention without sounding aggressive.
Also, when your horn note has succeeded in making the other person look your way, a smile and raise of the hand can defuse any potential offence the other person may have taken.
I do want one of those train horns though. I loved the way the enormous fat bloke barely even flinched.
use of different styles of horn were taught on a MHE/ fork lift course i did a few years back ... Also, when your horn note has succeeded in making the other person look your way, a smile and raise of the hand can defuse any potential offence the other person may have taken.
I do want one of those train horns though. I loved the way the enormous fat bloke barely even flinched.
single pips , multiple short notes then the long note in ascending order of 'urgency' of the situatiojn
R_U_LOCAL said:
Jon1967x said:
I can't remember the last time I needed to use the horn in any of the good or bad circumstances you describe. I'd never use the horn behind a horse for instance, a little bit of patience and waiting for room seems a much more sensible option.
And using your horn because a car is starting to cut you up seems perfectly legitimate by the definition of whats acceptable. You are, after all, warning them of your presence in their blind spot.
Now what constitutes an acceptable honk is a valid debate, but personally I've found no matter how hard I press or for whatever purpose, the sound is pretty much the same, its just the duration that might change. Sorry, but in this case honking and then having to make eye contact to disarm the situation just seems wrong.
And therein lies the problem - your feelings about the use of the horn are shared by most of the motoring public.And using your horn because a car is starting to cut you up seems perfectly legitimate by the definition of whats acceptable. You are, after all, warning them of your presence in their blind spot.
Now what constitutes an acceptable honk is a valid debate, but personally I've found no matter how hard I press or for whatever purpose, the sound is pretty much the same, its just the duration that might change. Sorry, but in this case honking and then having to make eye contact to disarm the situation just seems wrong.
If we claim to be enthusiastic drivers or advanced drivers or just "better" drivers, we should be looking for and planning for emerging hazards. But if we spot an emerging hazard, what do we do about it? Well, there's all the avoidance tactics and safety positions and secondary plans of course, but what's wrong with using the horn as a signal to make people aware of your presence?
Nothing whatsoever - it's what the horn is designed for and it's what the highway code advises.
It's just that it has been misused so often for so long that people naturally assume that the horn user is being aggressive - hence my little tactic to take the aggression out of horn use.
And let's just be clear - I've no idea where the horse reference came from, but I've never suggested using the horn as a warning to horses. To be clear - horses are very easily startled and there are few things more dangerous than a ton of startled raw meat.
Some areas of Asia, Thailand for example, the use of the horn is considered rude and provocative, so a sense of jai yen or "cool heart" is considered polite and use infrequent. Other areas of Asia the horn is used as a rebuke and fairly common.
Whenever I use the horn, after adjusting speed and position etc, I always give a "dissipating" wave to indicate a level of gratitude for acknowledgement,reduce conflict and create harmony (sounds like I've been too close to the incense).
Just a footnote. I haven't read all of the posts here but, when using the horn, bear in mind the deaf, people with loud music, etc, may not heed your warning.
Jon1967x said:
It doesn't matter what your intentions are or how friendly you think a toot is or what happens in other parts of the world, here, in this country, on these roads, the horn is seen as a sign of aggression by the majority of people.
You can believe the majority of people are wrong because they react badly... Or you can accept that's the culture on these roads and adapt your driving style accordingly however frustrating you may feel that is.
I am originally from the yUK. I always gave a "dissipation" wave if I thought offense was taken when I was living there, so long as it did not affect my control. Reg's suggestion will work n 99% of cases and the 1% it doesn't you'd better have a gun.You can believe the majority of people are wrong because they react badly... Or you can accept that's the culture on these roads and adapt your driving style accordingly however frustrating you may feel that is.
Lozw86 said:
The horn is used much more readily in Asia for alerting people to your presence and no one takes offence at all. In some countries it is excessive; Vietnam for example, where you can hear constant horn use on any semi busy road. It could certainly help motorcycles in this country who often feel unsure whether someone is going to pull out of a junction in front of them
Laos...bikes just pull out without looking and keep close to the pavement! Gave me the shock of my life the first time I rented a bike there!! Where I am it is used to indicate the presence of the self entitled...lol
I was reminded of this thread on Sunday, while out with RoSPA coaching for a couple of ADIs for their upcoming check tests. I was the stooge driver, on a lovely bit of country road but stuck behind a dozen old mods reliving their scooter days. Just under 40mph through the village (30), and yep - the same nailed to the max speed on the winding NSL afterwards. As pure luck would have it (it was an unfamiliar area), the road opened up just beautifully after a right hander and I could see for almost a mile, complete with cross views.
The scooterists hadn't checked their mirrors once and were weaving around in lane chatting, with several of them two-abreast at times. As we cleared the corner, I took the car offside and gave three sharp toots of the horn. A dozen dozy bikers all checked their mirrors/shoulders in unison, and I blasted past all twelve of them and tucked it in neatly before the next left hander. It was just one of those beautiful 'bow on the top' (Reg
) overtakes and I couldn't help but smile. My two ADIs had their mouths open, and one eventually remarked 'That was decent. TWELVE?!'. I just nodded and then couldn't help but laugh. The horn. Get it.
The scooterists hadn't checked their mirrors once and were weaving around in lane chatting, with several of them two-abreast at times. As we cleared the corner, I took the car offside and gave three sharp toots of the horn. A dozen dozy bikers all checked their mirrors/shoulders in unison, and I blasted past all twelve of them and tucked it in neatly before the next left hander. It was just one of those beautiful 'bow on the top' (Reg
) overtakes and I couldn't help but smile. My two ADIs had their mouths open, and one eventually remarked 'That was decent. TWELVE?!'. I just nodded and then couldn't help but laugh. The horn. Get it.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff