Covering ground quickly

[golfdsg]

How is it possible to drive 200 miles, whilst not exceeding 70mph, yet reaching the destination faster than somebody travelling at 80mph.

I was reading a thread on here (cant seem to find it now) where a bloke would regularly travel to work using the motorway at 70mph, and a work colleague travelling in the same direction would be speeding past him at 80mph+, yet he would get to work earlier than his colleague.

So I was wondering, how is it possible to increase the average speed over 200 miles, keeping to the speed limit, yet reaching the destination faster than speeding vehicles.

Thanks

[Cliftonite]

When on all stages of the journey:

Looking and planning further ahead, thereby being in the faster-flowing lanes. Smarter take off at traffic lights, reducing the chance of being caught at the next set. Not slowing / stopping unnecessarily at roundabouts, give ways ('prepare to stop, plan to go').

Never miss an overtake opportunity.

This what you mean?

Often keeps me ahead of the 'boy-racers'!

[MarkwG]

Yep - it's all about maintaining an average, rather than hitting the big numbers.

[Defcon5]

But at some point he has to physically overtake his colleague if they are doing the same route, that requires clear open road, on which his colleague would be going over the relevant limit?

[theboss]

Cliftonite said:

Never miss an overtake opportunity.

This. Whenever I sit behind someone doing 'more or less' the limit in an NSL and tell myself "he's making decent enough progress, I don't really need to overtake him", before long we come up behind someone else, he then doesn't pass when possible, and then before you know it I'm a few cars back in a little bunched-up, dawdling convoy which is much harder to get around than any one of them individually. With this in mind, I make a habit of passing anyone I've caught up, who is doing less than the limit, at the soonest opportunity, even if it 'seems' unnecessary. And yes, I get flashed, all the time.

[andburg]

Defcon5 said:

But at some point he has to physically overtake his colleague if they are doing the same route, that requires clear open road, on which his colleague would be going over the relevant limit?

No he just has to be in the right lane at the right time if there is heavy traffic.
Outside lane isn't necessarily the fastest when things start to snarl up.

[clunkbox]

On the A9 from Perth to / from Inverness I would regularly keep pace with cars that were hitting 80+ without hitting speeds that would make me worry about speed cameras. I was on 9 points and driving something with a 15+ second 0-60 time, but I would take every (safe) overtaking opportunity available.

The chaps in the German saloons were, like me, overtaking on the s/c sections, but my view of their choices tended to be either why on earth aren't you overtaking here? and oh god why are you overtaking HERE?!?. I'm guessing they didn't know the road that well.

Admittedly plenty of people made much better time than me down the road, but I played hopscotch with quite a few. Also helps knowing the cheeky bypass round the traffic staying on the A9 at Inveralmond roundabout - it doesn't involve cutting anybody up but it does mean taking the wrong road and using a roundabout for a quick 180.

This was before the A9 average speed cameras were installed, but since their installation the "go slow, overtake everything" tactic is even more useful.

Edit: However, a quick pee stop will easily to loose half an hour plus worth of overtakes, which makes the whole thing seem quite futile.

I completely agree with "overtake everything". They may not be holding me up now, but then when you get another two cars who are holding you up a little bit, and you all end up behind a lorry, your ability to overtake the lorry is down the swanny. My mantra is that there isn't anything wrong with a safe overtake that doesn't get you anywhere quicker, as long as you avoid taking risky overtakes - even if they DO get you there quicker.

Edited by clunkbox on Monday 30th March 17:46

[golfdsg]

Thanks for all your input everybody. I was only wondering this as I have a 220 mile journey to make on Friday which will be done on the A1.

I would like to complete my journey as fast as possible whilst not exceeding the legal speed limit. Google maps says 4h20, I like to get that to under 4hours.

[clunkbox]

In my experience, google maps is pretty accurate for normal driving, i.e doing the speed limit, minimal overtaking, average traffic. To make any reasonable gains means very light traffic, or some level of "making progress".

The difference between 220 miles in 4:00 and 4:20 is 55mph / 51mph average. Considering goog reckons 51avg, I'm guessing its pretty slow section of the A1... heavy traffic or single carridgeway. In that case the chances of gaining 4mph is going to be down to the time of day as much as anything, unless you are really pushing on, and that probably means speeding.

For example, if you average 51 mph over half your journey as Google says, you'll need to average 60mph - 9 mph over the estimate for the other half, just to average 55! Assuming my quick phone maths are correct. If you avg 51 for 110 miles, and take a 10 minute piss / fuel/ Ginsters stop, you'll need to average 65 for the remaining 110 miles.

[SVS]

theboss said:

And yes, I get flashed, all the time.

I don't understand why you get flashed all the time How do you approach an overtake?

I'm in the same habit as you, but strive to make each overtake as unobtrusive as possible (because of third party perception).

[barker22]

clunkbox said:

In my experience, google maps is pretty accurate for normal driving, i.e doing the speed limit, minimal overtaking, average traffic. To make any reasonable gains means very light traffic, or some level of "making progress".

The difference between 220 miles in 4:00 and 4:20 is 55mph / 51mph average. Considering goog reckons 51avg, I'm guessing its pretty slow section of the A1... heavy traffic or single carridgeway. In that case the chances of gaining 4mph is going to be down to the time of day as much as anything, unless you are really pushing on, and that probably means speeding.

For example, if you average 51 mph over half your journey as Google says, you'll need to average 60mph - 9 mph over the estimate for the other half, just to average 55! Assuming my quick phone maths are correct. If you avg 51 for 110 miles, and take a 10 minute piss / fuel/ Ginsters stop, you'll need to average 65 for the remaining 110 miles.

And its a bank holiday weekend.....good luck

[7db]

I'm not sure that peak speed has much to do with average speed unless you are blessed with unusually open flowing roads or a particularly long drive.

As ever, the best way to arrive first is to leave early and not get lost.

[MC Bodge]

Most drivers use the brakes far more than is necessary. They might stomp on the accelerator at every opportunity, but they will also be stomping hard on the brakes a lot, having failed to observe and anticipate the situations they are encountering.

Many people will not overtake.

Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 4th April 06:55

[theboss]

SVS said:

theboss said:

And yes, I get flashed, all the time.

I don't understand why you get flashed all the time How do you approach an overtake?

I'm in the same habit as you, but strive to make each overtake as unobtrusive as possible (because of third party perception).

Many people of a certain mindset simply don't like being overtaken - its as simple as that - and a certain proportion react without fail. I'm generally careful and considerate in my approach but 'unobtrusive' is obviously a rather subjective measure and I certainly don't care about trying to conform to everyone's sense of approval - otherwise I'd just resign to sitting behind them rather than trying to ungraciously 'jump the queue'.

I do try to remind myself of third party perception and realise its significance - so you raise a good point there.

If I get flashed more than it seems I 'should' on average, I'd wager it has something to do with local demographics in my area (lots of old / retired / generally slow paced) as I get flashed more within 20 miles of my house than anywhere else in the country - and I do travel a lot. I also know the roads well so there may be a perception I'm overtaking dangerously if I'm using a stretch of road which I know to be safe but that which others may consider marginal. Some people just seem to go mad whatever the circumstances. I passed someone sat in the middle lane of the A1M near York a few nights away, completely clean, no flashing or objection to them being sat in the middle lane on an empty carriageway, I just moved well in advance from L1 --> L3 and they went absolutely berserk on the headlights as I passed. I was cruising at a fast but not licence losing pace, and I'd estimate they were doing 55-60, so there was some differential. I can't think of anything I did to warrant the reaction.

Have you really never observed this phenomenon?

Edited by theboss on Friday 3rd April 23:52

[MC Bodge]

I put it down to many drivers not being aware of cars behind them.

When you do pass them it surprises them, because they didn't know you were there and that they can't comprehend somebody going faster than them. Their reflex reaction is to think that you are a hooligan that needs telling/flashing at angrily.

Everybody has their own comfortable speed and as the saying goes,
"Anybody slower is a dawdled and anybody faster is a hooligan".

In my own case, I try to drive/ride to the forward visibility, so anybody overtaking me really must be a lunatic

It's interesting to note that it is rare to be overtaken (other than in a 30/40 limit or somewhere dodgy) even whilst driving the family in a diesel estate or even a slow supermini.

[ArnieVXR]

Some man-maths going on here.

On an open road, if I do 80mph for an hour and you do 70mph for a hour, I'm ten miles ahead. I'd have to slow to 60mph for a whole hour, while you did 70mph just to catch me up. Thus the doing 80mph+ bit is very misleading.

Very occasionally travelling at or above the speed limit while travelling on busy roads is a pointless comparison. It becomes more about how you deal with the congestion that how fast you travel on the open bits.

[Cliftonite]

MC Bodge said:

< big snip >

It's interesting to note that it is rare to be overtaken (other than in a 30/40 limit or somewhere dodgy) even whilst driving the family in a diesel estate or even a slow supermini.

Or even when driving a 50 year old bus along a straight A-road at 30 mph with nowt oncoming and 1/4 mile of visibility!

It then falls to me to find a suitable layby or similar to pull into to let the knobs (and the poor sods, that might be capable drivers, trapped behind them) come past.

[Red Devil]

clunkbox said:

Also helps knowing the cheeky bypass round the traffic staying on the A9 at Inveralmond roundabout - it doesn't involve cutting anybody up but it does mean taking the wrong road and using a roundabout for a quick 180.

Ah, the BP filling station gambit. A friend in Auchterarder told me about that little wheeze.

[FiF]

The question raised by the OP is sort of familiar to me. Used to do the same journey as a work colleague when we couldn't car share for one reason or another. Journey was 1:15 to 1:30 typically, I would drive to make best possible legal process and he would basically be up over 80 where possible as just one example and points to show for it. Mixture of urban 30, rural NSL SC, DC and short stretch of motorway.

He would almost always get there before me but usually not much in it, e.g. he would be walking in from the car park to office entrance as I'd come in through the gates.

[Bebee]

Heckalopter?