Driving with the Radio or C.D on.
Discussion
Reg Local said:
7mike said:
Reg Local said:
Ok I'll bite.
If it's been established beyond doubt that a phone conversation whilst driving (that's the conversation itself, not the actions involved in making or answering a call, which I specifically excluded from my statement), then there must be some published evidence or statistics to that effect.
Could you please provide a link / links to the evidence?
You first, then I'll provide mine.
I'm interested in your published evidence Reg. I found this: http://acrs.org.au/files/papers/15%20Young%20A%20r... Top of page 7 if you don't want to read all through it.If it's been established beyond doubt that a phone conversation whilst driving (that's the conversation itself, not the actions involved in making or answering a call, which I specifically excluded from my statement), then there must be some published evidence or statistics to that effect.
Could you please provide a link / links to the evidence?
You first, then I'll provide mine.
The DFT accident statistics for 2015 show that in 2015 a total of only 440 reportable (injury) road accidents were caused partly or wholly by a driver using a mobile phone. That's 440 out of a total of 108,211 accidents - 22 of which were fatal (out of 1,469). 0.4% of all accidents were attributed to mobile phone use in 2015.
By comparison, 2,920 accidents (2.7% of all accidents) were caused solely or in part by distraction inside the vehicle, which includes distraction by passengers. 61 of those accidents were fatal.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-set... (first link down the list)
I'm not trying to suggest that mobile phone use isn't dangerous or distracting, because it most certainly is. It isn't, however, the major cause of accidents suggested by the road safety lobby & politicians. It should be addressed and I'm all for increased penalties & enforcement, but there are much more serious issues on our roads which would benefit from an increase in enforcement and education.
Drivers failing to look properly would be a good place to start. This contributory factor accounted for over 47,000 accidents in 2015 & 400 fatalities. 47.7% of all accidents, in fact.
Hence the recent increase in penalties and the 'silent' protests to make this modern motoring menace as anti social as drink driving.
Next move, 'the designated phoner'.
nonsequitur said:
I think we can agree that this practice, however carried out, is foolish, inconsiderate, irresponsible and simpy unacceptable.
I think that people certainly seem to agree that hand-held phone calls are an inappropriate distraction...However there are many people who consider that it can be safe to drive and have a call through a hands-free system - depending on the nature of the call etc. (much as it would depend on the nature of any in-car discussion - a violent argument would be too distracting, simply answering a question is fine)
akirk said:
nonsequitur said:
I think we can agree that this practice, however carried out, is foolish, inconsiderate, irresponsible and simpy unacceptable.
I think that people certainly seem to agree that hand-held phone calls are an inappropriate distraction...However there are many people who consider that it can be safe to drive and have a call through a hands-free system - depending on the nature of the call etc. (much as it would depend on the nature of any in-car discussion - a violent argument would be too distracting, simply answering a question is fine)
is that the one at Napier University, Edinburgh or TRL Crowthorne? nonsequitur said:
akirk said:
nonsequitur said:
I think we can agree that this practice, however carried out, is foolish, inconsiderate, irresponsible and simpy unacceptable.
I think that people certainly seem to agree that hand-held phone calls are an inappropriate distraction...However there are many people who consider that it can be safe to drive and have a call through a hands-free system - depending on the nature of the call etc. (much as it would depend on the nature of any in-car discussion - a violent argument would be too distracting, simply answering a question is fine)
Infosite discussing use of comms devices when driving said:
It is an offence to use a hand held mobile phone or an "interactive communications device" but there is an exemption for a two way radio which is designed or adapted for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages and which operates on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz. If you are transmitting and receiving CB in the 27MHz range, you come within the exception and are OK.
Assuming this position is still current, is the law an ass?nonsequitur said:
Hands free just as foolish. Transport research institute report 2014. They are the top people when it comes to testing anything motoring.
It removes the issue of trying to work the car's controls one-handed, but hands free is still incredibly distracting - I've only just recently had a car where I've been able to do it, and I still try to pull over if I need to take or make a call. turbobloke said:
nonsequitur said:
akirk said:
nonsequitur said:
I think we can agree that this practice, however carried out, is foolish, inconsiderate, irresponsible and simpy unacceptable.
I think that people certainly seem to agree that hand-held phone calls are an inappropriate distraction...However there are many people who consider that it can be safe to drive and have a call through a hands-free system - depending on the nature of the call etc. (much as it would depend on the nature of any in-car discussion - a violent argument would be too distracting, simply answering a question is fine)
Infosite discussing use of comms devices when driving said:
It is an offence to use a hand held mobile phone or an "interactive communications device" but there is an exemption for a two way radio which is designed or adapted for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages and which operates on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz. If you are transmitting and receiving CB in the 27MHz range, you come within the exception and are OK.
Assuming this position is still current, is the law an ass?turbobloke said:
Hand-held CB radio use is still lawful iirc, unless this position as found on many online information sites has changed.
Yes, the law is an ass Infosite discussing use of comms devices when driving said:
It is an offence to use a hand held mobile phone or an "interactive communications device" but there is an exemption for a two way radio which is designed or adapted for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages and which operates on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz. If you are transmitting and receiving CB in the 27MHz range, you come within the exception and are OK.
Assuming this position is still current, is the law an ass?
I had a car previously with both CB and VHF radios - both legal to use while driving
The CB was relatively simple - assuming you set the channel once, it is simply press a button and speak...
The VHF was not simple - very fiddly buttons / bouncing off repeaters etc. - it took more concentration than driving, would never have used it while driving - but it would have been legal...
In comparison - mobile phones - handheld would have been far simpler than the VHF and not far off the CB - call comes in - press big green button, hold to ear - no real difference to CB... handsfree, even easier - auto-answer on - just speak, no need for anything else, if auto-answer is off, press button on steering wheel / radio / etc. and speak - less of an issue than even CB which is legal...
The reality is simple - there are two elements to this:
- the distraction caused by the mechanics of the call
- the distraction caused by the conversation
The mechanics of the call - fine, with handsfree so prevalent now and so easy, it makes sense to ban handheld (but then CB / VHF etc. should be included)
The conversation - people will always differ in their views on this, yes there are studies to show that it can cause driving to deteriorate, but no-one drives at full concentration the whole time - in fact I suspect that the vast majority of drivers are way off full concentration most of the time... So the studies often show deterioration in a sterile environment with no other distractions - yet in a car you have huge distractions from kids to eating food, smoking to being tired, other drivers to worries going around in your head - all of these things go on all the time - we should not be expecting drivers to be 100% on task, if that is required we have a whole heap of issues going on - so driving will be a norm of less than 100% concentration and that is okay... so the question regarding a phone conversation is does that take the distraction above an acceptable level - it exists, but what is its impact? Banning it because it exists would be even more stupid than the current discrepancies - unless you ban every distraction which is unrealistic... And the reality as shown by the stats is that phone conversations are really not the major evil they are shown to be - are they the major cause of road accidents / deaths - no... So banning handheld makes sense because you do what you can to improve conditions and there is an alternative - but banning handsfree does not make sense...
akirk said:
turbobloke said:
Hand-held CB radio use is still lawful iirc, unless this position as found on many online information sites has changed.
Yes, the law is an ass Infosite discussing use of comms devices when driving said:
It is an offence to use a hand held mobile phone or an "interactive communications device" but there is an exemption for a two way radio which is designed or adapted for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages and which operates on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz. If you are transmitting and receiving CB in the 27MHz range, you come within the exception and are OK.
Assuming this position is still current, is the law an ass?I had a car previously with both CB and VHF radios - both legal to use while driving
The CB was relatively simple - assuming you set the channel once, it is simply press a button and speak...
The VHF was not simple - very fiddly buttons / bouncing off repeaters etc. - it took more concentration than driving, would never have used it while driving - but it would have been legal...
In comparison - mobile phones - handheld would have been far simpler than the VHF and not far off the CB - call comes in - press big green button, hold to ear - no real difference to CB... handsfree, even easier - auto-answer on - just speak, no need for anything else, if auto-answer is off, press button on steering wheel / radio / etc. and speak - less of an issue than even CB which is legal...
The reality is simple - there are two elements to this:
- the distraction caused by the mechanics of the call
- the distraction caused by the conversation
The mechanics of the call - fine, with handsfree so prevalent now and so easy, it makes sense to ban handheld (but then CB / VHF etc. should be included)
The conversation - people will always differ in their views on this, yes there are studies to show that it can cause driving to deteriorate, but no-one drives at full concentration the whole time - in fact I suspect that the vast majority of drivers are way off full concentration most of the time... So the studies often show deterioration in a sterile environment with no other distractions - yet in a car you have huge distractions from kids to eating food, smoking to being tired, other drivers to worries going around in your head - all of these things go on all the time - we should not be expecting drivers to be 100% on task, if that is required we have a whole heap of issues going on - so driving will be a norm of less than 100% concentration and that is okay... so the question regarding a phone conversation is does that take the distraction above an acceptable level - it exists, but what is its impact? Banning it because it exists would be even more stupid than the current discrepancies - unless you ban every distraction which is unrealistic... And the reality as shown by the stats is that phone conversations are really not the major evil they are shown to be - are they the major cause of road accidents / deaths - no... So banning handheld makes sense because you do what you can to improve conditions and there is an alternative - but banning handsfree does not make sense...
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