Safe driving and received wisdom

Safe driving and received wisdom

Author
Discussion

ArnieVXR

Original Poster:

2,449 posts

182 months

Monday 13th April 2015
quotequote all
I question how much advice on safe driving has been invented with good intention, as opposed to proven with unbiased research. For example, I was recently informed that I should keep two hands on the wheel and that to have only one leaves me open to callenged by the Law, as it's just not safe. This all seems very odd, as I guy I worked with only had one arm, but still held a driving license. The only modification to his car was the addition of a dolly to the steering wheel for low speed maneuvers. He had received no 'special' training prior to being issued with a license. None of this caused him to be unsafe. I drive a very fast dragster with one hand, which doesn't pose any problems either.

So who is right and is the 'two hands' advice merely received wisdom?

R_U_LOCAL

2,676 posts

207 months

Monday 13th April 2015
quotequote all
I met a bloke once who had no arms, but drove himself everywhere. He seemed a pretty safe driver.

He struggled to put petrol in though.

ArnieVXR

Original Poster:

2,449 posts

182 months

Monday 13th April 2015
quotequote all
Guessing the car was heavily modified though.

R_U_LOCAL

2,676 posts

207 months

Monday 13th April 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
Guessing the car was heavily modified though.
Spoiler, foglights, aftermarket alloys - nothing too over-the-top.

barker22

1,037 posts

166 months

Monday 13th April 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
I question how much advice on safe driving has been invented with good intention, as opposed to proven with unbiased research. For example, I was recently informed that I should keep two hands on the wheel and that to have only one leaves me open to callenged by the Law, as it's just not safe. This all seems very odd, as I guy I worked with only had one arm, but still held a driving license. The only modification to his car was the addition of a dolly to the steering wheel for low speed maneuvers. He had received no 'special' training prior to being issued with a license. None of this caused him to be unsafe. I drive a very fast dragster with one hand, which doesn't pose any problems either.

So who is right and is the 'two hands' advice merely received wisdom?
I did my b+e test a few weeks back. The instructor said one hand on the wheel at all times. even at traffic lights for the purpose of the test. No hands is 'not in control'
1 is legal, 2 is better

akirk

5,377 posts

113 months

Wednesday 15th April 2015
quotequote all
A lot of advanced driving tuition is statements to help push a driver to drive better / safer / etc.
It doesn't necessarily mean that those statements are absolutes

hands on steering-wheels, I can think of times when 0 / 1 / 2 could be safe. Stopped at lights with car in neutral / handbrake on / modern car with stop-start may even have the engine off - hands on the steering wheel will make no difference to anything. The rest of the time will move between one and two, you need to be able to remove a hand to change gear / adjust controls / etc.

Looking at it from the other angle - while two hands does give you more control than one, if your driving style / the conditions are such that you must have two hands on the wheel, and one would not be safe, then there should be concerns as that is not a safe situation - safe driving is not about always sitting at the limit of ability, but about having ability beyond what you need, so that you have contingency etc.

You should therefore be able to drive safely with one hand - but choose two to add a safety margin

LordGrover

33,532 posts

211 months

Wednesday 15th April 2015
quotequote all
Guess the OP would question whether it's sub-optimal to change gear with on-coming traffic too.

ArnieVXR

Original Poster:

2,449 posts

182 months

Thursday 16th April 2015
quotequote all
Hi guys - my question was pitched more at understanding whether 'safe' is determined through empirical data or personal opinion.

The hands on wheel question is a great example, as the chap I worked with must be (as far as DVLA is concerned) safe enough in all situations to drive on the public highway. Taking that logic forward, two hands are therefore not necessary from a safety perspective in any scenario.

vonhosen

40,202 posts

216 months

Thursday 16th April 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
Hi guys - my question was pitched more at understanding whether 'safe' is determined through empirical data or personal opinion.

The hands on wheel question is a great example, as the chap I worked with must be (as far as DVLA is concerned) safe enough in all situations to drive on the public highway. Taking that logic forward, two hands are therefore not necessary from a safety perspective in any scenario.
In all situations?
Nobody is tested in all situations.

What must be maintained is effective control during the test, as far as the DVSA are concerned.



Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 16th April 16:57

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Thursday 16th April 2015
quotequote all
I vaguely remember a discussion with my driving instructor about using one hand while reversing. The idea being you could get a better rear view by twisting further in your seat. Whether you would get marked down was down to the examiner so I was advised not to even though it seemed a safer thing to do.

waremark

3,241 posts

212 months

Thursday 16th April 2015
quotequote all
Received wisdom. The IAM don't even seem able to establish that advanced training makes things safer, and Roadcraft used to hark back to experience in the 1930's for accident reduction info from introduction of the 'police system of driving'.

akirk

5,377 posts

113 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
Hi guys - my question was pitched more at understanding whether 'safe' is determined through empirical data or personal opinion.

The hands on wheel question is a great example, as the chap I worked with must be (as far as DVLA is concerned) safe enough in all situations to drive on the public highway. Taking that logic forward, two hands are therefore not necessary from a safety perspective in any scenario.
There are some different issues to unpick here:
- I suspect a mixture of empirical data / personal opinion, however there is nothing to say that one or the other is better - history is full of people whose personal opinion outstripped empirical data when those collating data didn't know what to test or collect... that their opinion is later proven through empirical data might show that personal opinion (assuming it is not contradicted by empirical data) should be considered valid
- whether two hands are necessary or not - doesn't define whether they are advisable... smile
- one hand being acceptable in an adapted car doesn't define one hand being acceptable in a non-adapted car

Mave

8,208 posts

214 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
Hi guys - my question was pitched more at understanding whether 'safe' is determined through empirical data or personal opinion.

The hands on wheel question is a great example, as the chap I worked with must be (as far as DVLA is concerned) safe enough in all situations to drive on the public highway. Taking that logic forward, two hands are therefore not necessary from a safety perspective in any scenario.
My thoughts are that there's no such thing as safe - only more or less safe. I've had occasions lazily driving with one hand where the wheel has slipped and I've needed to grab at it, so on that empirical basis I'd suggest 2 hands are safer, especially as a single hand means you tend to "palm" the wheel rather than hold it when manoeuvring - a risk significantly reduced if you've got a dolly.

Swanny87

1,265 posts

118 months

Thursday 30th April 2015
quotequote all
To me it depends on how it is held rather than the amount of hands that hold it. If you white knuckle grip the steering wheel with two hands, it isn't as safe as light grip with one hand as the car will be fidgeting all over the place.

The thread "do you walk the dog or does it walk you" comes to mind.

watchnut

1,163 posts

128 months

Friday 1st May 2015
quotequote all
Two hands on a wheel in a position to be able to control a skid/blow out/sudden change of direction is always going to be safer than one hand, as by the time you get the hand "not on the wheel" back on in a position to control the "issue" you will have probably lost control.

As for driving, when teaching learners I find that if for example they stop at lights, secure the car, and the start /stop kicks in, if they drop their hands into their lap, they loose concentration very quickly, then start rushing to get going again....rushing then in the first few hours of driving sometimes leads to stalling.....causing them to panic....and a further stall. Keeping their hands at 10 to 2 or 1/4 to 3 I find, makes them more aware of the light junction, and encouraging them to watch the other road users, looking into the mirrors to see if cycles/motorbikes coming up behind/either side of them, rear view mirror to see if the tt behind them has finished their phone call/picking their nose/applying make up/play with hair etc...keeps the Control and observing/anticipating what other road users may or may not do even when you are stationary helps....for example if the twit behind you is edging up/on the phone applying your brake might remind them to wake up? Keeping hands on the wheel reminds you that you are driving, and driving is the most dangerous occupation most of us do, using two hands on the wheel has to be the safest way to drive...hasn't it?

7db

6,058 posts

229 months

Tuesday 5th May 2015
quotequote all
watchnut said:
Two hands on a wheel in a position to be able to control a skid/blow out/sudden change of direction is always going to be safer than one hand, as by the time you get the hand "not on the wheel" back on in a position to control the "issue" you will have probably lost control.
Alternative view: one hand on the wheel is already halfway to having no hands on the wheel which will give you fast accurate skid correction in many instances. In extremis, I believe that one hand gives you finer control and feedback for the very best to control the car. I'm not that good so I prefer to use all my skill (and hands) to stay out of extremis.

Total Motion

4 posts

108 months

Wednesday 6th May 2015
quotequote all
As mentioned above the best thing to do is to advise any one to have 2 hands on the wheel, however circumstances dictate different situations and for example if you choose to drive on a polished surface then one hand is much more effective. Whereas on a good sticky surface at speed then two may be more realistic, subject to whatever is ahead. What is quote amusing there was a case in London where the driver was stationary in traffic, she took both hands off the wheel and proceeded with helping herself to a drink. The police officer saw this then decided to take action and charge the driver with driving without due care or attention.

Therefore keep at least one hand on the wheel at all times and watch out for who is about!

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
quotequote all
I think what you mean is don't go helping yourself to a drink - that's a known (although potentially OTT) thing to get done for. Whereas, no hands on the wheel stationary in traffic isn't!

On the whole, the problem some of the received wisdom is that sensible thoughts turn into mantra and end up completely out of shape.

Yes of course it's better in a lot of cases to be using two hands not one. Pull-push is hard without it for example.

If you get a front tyre blow out on a nice sunny empty motorway where one handed steering was otherwise ok, then having two hands on the wheel to control the car is probably better. If (hypothetically) you are hooning up a mountain pass, then probably two hands are better than one. But there's always exceptions until it gets turned into damnable AD dogma biggrin

Such as don't let the handbrake ratchet make a sound - it's not mechanically sympathetic and might wear out - really? It's a ratchet FFS. Do the Swiss think the same when they make clocks?

And "gears are for going and brakes are for slowing" - really? "Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing unless you are using acceleration sense" doesn't scan so well!

Hey ho. Bee in my bonnet? Moi?
Bert

Total Motion said:
As mentioned above the best thing to do is to advise any one to have 2 hands on the wheel, however circumstances dictate different situations and for example if you choose to drive on a polished surface then one hand is much more effective. Whereas on a good sticky surface at speed then two may be more realistic, subject to whatever is ahead. What is quote amusing there was a case in London where the driver was stationary in traffic, she took both hands off the wheel and proceeded with helping herself to a drink. The police officer saw this then decided to take action and charge the driver with driving without due care or attention.

Therefore keep at least one hand on the wheel at all times and watch out for who is about!

Len Woodman

168 posts

112 months

Saturday 31st October 2015
quotequote all
R_U_LOCAL said:
ArnieVXR said:
Guessing the car was heavily modified though.
Spoiler, foglights, aftermarket alloys - nothing too over-the-top.
In 1979 as manager of BSM Ealing branch I had the privilege of organizing driver training for victims of thalidomide. Great work was done by a specialist whose name I can't remember (he was given an OBE for this). We had a young girl who had very underdeveloped arms and hands so the Mini Countryman she had was modified with a foot-steering mechanism, indicators, gear selector etc. were all moved up to where she could reach. Her instructor, Dave ? (ex-Met Police Class 1 and one of the few real gentlemen I have met) got her through her driving test (extended to be sure that she was able to cope well). On returning, apparently Dave was driving when they stopped at traffic lights; a jam-sandwich settled next to the car and Dave, having a good sense of humour, looked at the crew, smiled and put his hands behind his head. On green he proceeded only to hear the b&ts. He pulled over and they all had a laugh! Incidentally, all these kids had skid-control and circuit training at Brands Hatch before we 'let them go!'.

I can't remember the girl's name but she would never have had a problem putting petrol in the car - her smile sorted that out!


Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Saturday 7th November 2015
quotequote all
akirk said:
hands on steering-wheels, I can think of times when 0 / 1 / 2 could be safe. Stopped at lights with car in neutral / handbrake on / modern car with stop-start may even have the engine off - hands on the steering wheel will make no difference to anything.
In many cars with stop-start active, you can barely turn the wheel at all while stopped.