Are driving standards in the UK getting worse?

[okgo]

Either it has or I have got less tolerant, I find myself shaking my head at the sheer numbers of people who do not realise how much backlog they can cause by sitting in the middle lane going slower then both the inside and outside lane. Literally this is maybe 1 in 5 drivers, they have no clue, not just women and old people, its everyone.

And yes, as above, texting at the wheel is hugely common, I cycle to work too and I would say again something like 1 in 5 or 6 cars seem to be on their phones in one way or the other, looking down every few seconds has to be about as bad as it gets.

[MGJohn]

Munter said:

thiscocks said:

Ive noticed since the ridiculous near universal 50 limits on all NSL roads I have enjoyed driving much less. Every journey now involves alot of cars doing 50/45 even on NSL roads. Very rarely do you see people doing 60/65 mph anymore.

They do 60 on the dual carriageways. "They" also believe that 60 is the limit on dual carriage ways because apparently it was when they learnt.

Had an argument with a copper about this. He was adamant that 60 mph was the limit on Dual Carriageways. He learned something from me that day.

Bought my first car in 1959 and have been a regular road user on a pushbike since before then and a car driver and motor cyclist ever since. I bought my first car two years before my first motor cycle. Many changes over the years and not all for the better. Far from it.

So, in answer to the OP's question: My answer most certainly is YES! ... they are getting worse. A lot worse and no evidence that trend will change.

One thing from the past I would like to see reintroduced is this :~



Few drivers take sufficient care when approaching a Major Road ahead from a side road. Any drive for me of even a few miles only any day will see folks approach major roads with no intention of stopping unless they really have to. Often overshoot encroaching on major road forcing those on that road to take avoiding action. Over the years have witnessed TWO serious incidents where vehicles ahead of me on the major road have collided with vehicles overshooting from a side road. I have ALWAYS stopped and provided details as an independent witness. Without that, human nature being what it is, the innocent parties can struggle to prove their innocence when it comes to the crunch with Accident Reports for Police and Insurance Companies.

Message to those many drivers who do this too fast side road approach encroaching overshoot onto major roads habitually. Traffic density nowadays means there there is almost ALWAYS something coming so you'll need to stop anyway. So stop or slow to a crawl anyway ideally without much use of the brakes thus reducing wear and tear on those components and tyres. There is such a thing as driver burn out. This cooler approach will mean less wear and tear stress on your well being. That can lead to a premature .... you know the rest or should do.

Bring back HALT AT MAJOR ROAD AHEAD signs I say.

OK those HALT signs cost so getting rid saved a few quid for the tax payers. Folks not taking safe approaches to major roads cost too ... not just financially, but, lost lives are sometimes involved. Anyway, those existing triangles and white paint markings could be used in a simple and low cost law change to mean HALT at Major Road Ahead. ZERO cost.

All kinds of drivers are guilty of this abuse. Not just private car drivers, Commercial vehicle drivers hard wired with "must keep the load moving" mindset very guilty but these are a poor second to drivers of smaller commercials. Not just white van Man, all van drivers appear guilty.

Edited by MGJohn on Tuesday 11th August 01:38

[iloveboost]

I think if standards have got worse it's due to sat navs and hands free mobile phones while driving. There was a study done that concluded that using a hands free mobile phone or sat nav whilst driving, is the equivalent reaction time of being on the limit of drink driving. Banning them would be seen as backwards and almost impossible, but that's the way it is.

[RobM77]

iloveboost said:

I think if standards have got worse it's due to sat navs and hands free mobile phones while driving. There was a study done that concluded that using a hands free mobile phone or sat nav whilst driving, is the equivalent reaction time of being on the limit of drink driving. Banning them would be seen as backwards and almost impossible, but that's the way it is.

I'm not sure they're entirely responsible! They will have contributed, yes, but of all the crazy things I see each day that I saw less of 10 years ago and even less of 20 years ago, not all of them involve someone talking on a phone or looking at a sat nav.

[jbsportstech]

StressedDave said:

OK, a few things stand out in this post:

1. Who appointed you to be a member of Her Majesty's Traffic Constabulary (Amateur Auxiliary Division)?
2. Would you have had the same exchange had the driver of the DS5 been a powerfully-built, goatee sporting, company director with HATE and HATE tattooed on his knuckles and clutching a can of Red Bull? Asking a random woman whether she wants to see your dashcam footage is possibly not the best chat-up line I've heard to date.
3. Presumably if you're going to upload the dashcam footage to YouTube, you'll be uploading every other single hour of same so that we can go through it with a fine-toothed comb and find all those incidents of careless driving or that without reasonable consideration that you've managed to accrue and post them to the Old Bill?

Dave my old mate.

I haven't done anything with it but hopefully it made her think as she was all over the place on her phone. If she had run over your loved one I assume you wouldn't mind then?

I didn't pass it to the police but I felt strongly enough about her driving to say something I don't get out the car with women as not to be threatening. I agree just pulling out on me was is a mistake and I have made then yes. You won't find footage of me weaving between two lanes and tailgating whilst using my phone that is not a mistake its an accident waiting to happen. Using the same argument you shop a drink driver if you have ever driven a car after a shandy?

Yes I am big chap and will challenge anyone don't care. I had it out with a big tattooed vw t4 driver the other day who threatened to rip my head off after his argument for pulling out on my priority and then gesturing wker at me. I got out the car and informed he was being recorded and he still didn't fancy killing me and I asked to show me how he would rip my head off? Must be a neat trick. When and if I stop posting on here you know I have met my demise!

I saw a lady holding her baby in the passenger seat of Alhambra over the weekend while her chump partner drove at 90 in lane 3-4 of m5 with one hand holding the roof. I am waiting for the footage I take to be useful to the police like post collision as if I uploaded bad driving all the time I would be wasting my time every other day. I assume you condone this as well?

Don't know why, well I do you and I have crossed swords before but when you have someone who clearly is a risk handing the footage to the police or internet seems a responsible thing to do if it changes their driving or stops someone being killed or injured. I am not going to upload every minor incident because as you point out no one is perfect.

Edited by jbsportstech on Tuesday 1st September 13:04

Edited by jbsportstech on Tuesday 1st September 13:06

[RobM77]

jbsportstech said:

I don't get out the car with women as not to be threatening.

jbsportstech said:

Yes I am big chap and will challenge anyone don't care.

I'm not going to criticise and comment on what I think you meant by the above statements before you've had a chance to clarify yourself and perhaps retract the above. Are you suggesting that the gender of someone determines whether you'll get out of your car and 'challenge' them? What I mean is, if a man does something to annoy you on the road, perhaps accidentally or perhaps you were just mistaken over whose right of way it was etc (we're not all right all of the time - mistakes happen), would you get out of your car and use your size and possible thirst for conflict (which is inferred in your post, again feel free to clarify) to threaten them, just because they're male? I'm surprised and rather alarmed at this apparent sexism and bullying, that was all. Please feel free to clarify what you've written above if I've got the wrong end of the stick...

[jbsportstech]

RobM77 said:

I'm not going to criticise and comment on what I think you meant by the above statements before you've had a chance to clarify yourself and perhaps retract the above. Are you suggesting that the gender of someone determines whether you'll get out of your car and 'challenge' them? What I mean is, if a man does something to annoy you on the road, perhaps accidentally or perhaps you were just mistaken over whose right of way it was etc (we're not all right all of the time - mistakes happen), would you get out of your car and use your size and possible thirst for conflict (which is inferred in your post, again feel free to clarify) to threaten them, just because they're male? I'm surprised and rather alarmed at this apparent sexism and bullying, that was all. Please feel free to clarify what you've written above if I've got the wrong end of the stick...

Its not I get the hump if someone makes a mistake I don't and I brush it off most errors. Its consist bad driving ie not just the lady pulled into the lane across me but she drive down east reach a two lane town centre 30mph tailgating and swerving from lane to lane. Then carrys on looking at her phone and driving dangerous for miles.

The chap I had a row with pulled from the right turn lane onto a two lane system but went into the left hand lane so two errors across my path, then he moved back to the right hand lane. I let that slide but as I had tooted my horn as he pulled out he took offence when he then changed lane pursuing me tailgating and gesturing w@nker symbol at me through town for the next few miles. He challenged me first pulled along side looking for a confrontation

Don't get me wrong we all make mistakes and most you have to 99% brush off but I am not having this guy follow me mile upon mile when he was in the wrong to start with. Or a woman on her phone for 6 miles swerving!

[RobM77]

jbsportstech said:

RobM77 said:

I'm not going to criticise and comment on what I think you meant by the above statements before you've had a chance to clarify yourself and perhaps retract the above. Are you suggesting that the gender of someone determines whether you'll get out of your car and 'challenge' them? What I mean is, if a man does something to annoy you on the road, perhaps accidentally or perhaps you were just mistaken over whose right of way it was etc (we're not all right all of the time - mistakes happen), would you get out of your car and use your size and possible thirst for conflict (which is inferred in your post, again feel free to clarify) to threaten them, just because they're male? I'm surprised and rather alarmed at this apparent sexism and bullying, that was all. Please feel free to clarify what you've written above if I've got the wrong end of the stick...

Its not I get the hump if someone makes a mistake I don't and I brush it off most errors. Its consist bad driving ie not just the lady pulled into the lane across me but she drive down east reach a two lane town centre 30mph tailgating and swerving from lane to lane. Then carrys on looking at her phone and driving dangerous for miles.

The chap I had a row with pulled from the right turn lane onto a two lane system but went into the left hand lane so two errors across my path, then he moved back to the right hand lane. I let that slide but as I had tooted my horn as he pulled out he took offence when he then changed lane pursuing me tailgating and gesturing w@nker symbol at me through town for the next few miles. He challenged me first pulled along side looking for a confrontation

Don't get me wrong we all make mistakes and most you have to 99% brush off but I am not having this guy follow me mile upon mile when he was in the wrong to start with. Or a woman on her phone for 6 miles swerving!

I think if someone else has clearly started an argument with you by hurling abuse or hand signals etc then it's a different matter, but that aside, do you have answers to the two questions I asked you above? i.e. would you physically threaten someone purely on the basis of their poor driving ability (so no provocation from them with hand signals, shouting etc)? Secondly, would you choose your engagement in this threatening behaviour on the basis of their gender? Those were bits that worried me. Just because someone is male doesn't mean they deserve to be attacked if they drive like an idiot.

[jbsportstech]

RobM77 said:

I think if someone else has clearly started an argument with you by hurling abuse or hand signals etc then it's a different matter, but that aside, do you have answers to the two questions I asked you above? i.e. would you physically threaten someone purely on the basis of their poor driving ability (so no provocation from them with hand signals, shouting etc)? Secondly, would you choose your engagement in this threatening behaviour on the basis of their gender? Those were bits that worried me. Just because someone is male doesn't mean they deserve to be attacked if they drive like an idiot.

1) No never threaten or look for a fight simply mention the driving. When I spoke to the t4 guy I was like so you pull out in front of me and I am the w@nker ok, glad we have cleared that one up. He then says I was speeding. My reply to that is oh so you see what you think is a speeding car and decide to pull out in front and see if you can cause a crash. He is now out intelligent transporter driver banter and proceeds to make threats ie he will rip my head off. Human nature especially with men is criticism is normally not taken well.

2) I am more aware if you wife or mother was out you wouldn't want some big guy getting out and intimidating them so I try and be non threatening.

[RobM77]

jbsportstech said:

RobM77 said:

I think if someone else has clearly started an argument with you by hurling abuse or hand signals etc then it's a different matter, but that aside, do you have answers to the two questions I asked you above? i.e. would you physically threaten someone purely on the basis of their poor driving ability (so no provocation from them with hand signals, shouting etc)? Secondly, would you choose your engagement in this threatening behaviour on the basis of their gender? Those were bits that worried me. Just because someone is male doesn't mean they deserve to be attacked if they drive like an idiot.

1) No never threaten or look for a fight simply mention the driving. When I spoke to the t4 guy I was like so you pull out in front of me and I am the w@nker ok, glad we have cleared that one up. He then says I was speeding. My reply to that is oh so you see what you think is a speeding car and decide to pull out in front and see if you can cause a crash. He is now out intelligent transporter driver banter and proceeds to make threats ie he will rip my head off. Human nature especially with men is criticism is normally not taken well.

2) I am more aware if you wife or mother was out you wouldn't want some big guy getting out and intimidating them so I try and be non threatening.

I would suggest (humbly, and in my own opinion), that it is not your place to deliver lectures to complete strangers in the street on how to drive. In my personal opinion (and it is just my opinion), you have every right to defend yourself calmly and verbally if someone's just blatantly insulted you, but if someone's merely done something a bit daft or dangerous in a car whilst you're also driving your car, then that's what the police are for.

This is just a suggestion, but how about extending your more empathic approach towards women towards everyone: male, female, young, old etc? Just because someone is male doesn't mean they wouldn't be frightened if some great big guy (civilian, not policeman) gets out of his car and starts asking them for 'a chat' - I know I would! If you don't do it with women then I'm imagining you must have an idea of how scary it must be, so why not apply that empathy towards everyone? Lack of prejudice and fairness such as that is precisely why the law frown upon vigilantism, or related activities such as members of the public approaching strangers to give them lectures on the law - the police are highly trained and have well thought out procedures for engaging with the public - it's their job. Like anyone, I'm more than happy for a policeman to knock on my door or stop me on the road, but if a civilian does that, it's a very different matter. Recently we had a thread on GG where a guy 'having a word' was run over; I'm not condoning it, but that's the sort of thing that can happen when you scare people...

I don't wish to be a hyprocrite, so the above is purely just my humble opinion - it's not my place to tell you how to behave.

[MGJohn]

Yes, they are.

[FiF]

I don't have a problem with people making errors, regardless of whether they recognise their mistake or just blindly carry on. We all make mistakes.

What grips my chain is where people deliberately take action to create conflict and then protest trying to claim some sort of righteous position.

An example just from today. Mini roundabout, someone wanting to turn right sees a vehicle from the right indicating and entering the island to turn left. So enters the roundabout area to turn right.

Except that the vehicle behind the left turning vehicle, at the time several car lengths back from the "give way line", at that point accelerates and tries to straight line the island hooting and waving at the right turning driver.

See more and more of this behaviour. Not fit to hold licence in my opinion.

[RobM77]

FiF said:

I don't have a problem with people making errors, regardless of whether they recognise their mistake or just blindly carry on. We all make mistakes.

What grips my chain is where people deliberately take action to create conflict and then protest trying to claim some sort of righteous position.

An example just from today. Mini roundabout, someone wanting to turn right sees a vehicle from the right indicating and entering the island to turn left. So enters the roundabout area to turn right.

Except that the vehicle behind the left turning vehicle, at the time several car lengths back from the "give way line", at that point accelerates and tries to straight line the island hooting and waving at the right turning driver.

See more and more of this behaviour. Not fit to hold licence in my opinion.

I've noticed this too. I walk four miles a day every lunchtime and one thing I've noticed is people accelerating when others turn out of a junction, as if this suddenly gives them an opportunity to take a moral high ground, when otherwise the car turning out would have had plenty of opportunity to accelerate up to speed without affecting the oncoming car.

[DangerDoom]

watchnut said:

If a car had a metal 8 inch spike in front of the steering wheel in place of an air bag....and no seat belts.....standards would be great !!!!!

Steering wheels were once made that way...

NHTSA said:

In passenger cars built before the 1967 model year, the steering column was a rigid pole ending in a narrow hub. In frontal crashes, the driver would hit the rigid column, his load concentrated on the narrow hub.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/regrev/evaluate/805705.html

[LordGrover]

RobM77 said:

FiF said:

I don't have a problem with people making errors, regardless of whether they recognise their mistake or just blindly carry on. We all make mistakes.

What grips my chain is where people deliberately take action to create conflict and then protest trying to claim some sort of righteous position.

An example just from today. Mini roundabout, someone wanting to turn right sees a vehicle from the right indicating and entering the island to turn left. So enters the roundabout area to turn right.

Except that the vehicle behind the left turning vehicle, at the time several car lengths back from the "give way line", at that point accelerates and tries to straight line the island hooting and waving at the right turning driver.

See more and more of this behaviour. Not fit to hold licence in my opinion.

I've noticed this too. I walk four miles a day every lunchtime and one thing I've noticed is people accelerating when others turn out of a junction, as if this suddenly gives them an opportunity to take a moral high ground, when otherwise the car turning out would have had plenty of opportunity to accelerate up to speed without affecting the oncoming car.

I've mentioned this before.
It's that, and a general lack of patience & courtesy that make driving far less enjoyable and often more dangerous.

[jbsportstech]

RobM77 said:

I would suggest (humbly, and in my own opinion), that it is not your place to deliver lectures to complete strangers in the street on how to drive. In my personal opinion (and it is just my opinion), you have every right to defend yourself calmly and verbally if someone's just blatantly insulted you, but if someone's merely done something a bit daft or dangerous in a car whilst you're also driving your car, then that's what the police are for.

This is just a suggestion, but how about extending your more empathic approach towards women towards everyone: male, female, young, old etc? Just because someone is male doesn't mean they wouldn't be frightened if some great big guy (civilian, not policeman) gets out of his car and starts asking them for 'a chat' - I know I would! If you don't do it with women then I'm imagining you must have an idea of how scary it must be, so why not apply that empathy towards everyone? Lack of prejudice and fairness such as that is precisely why the law frown upon vigilantism, or related activities such as members of the public approaching strangers to give them lectures on the law - the police are highly trained and have well thought out procedures for engaging with the public - it's their job. Like anyone, I'm more than happy for a policeman to knock on my door or stop me on the road, but if a civilian does that, it's a very different matter. Recently we had a thread on GG where a guy 'having a word' was run over; I'm not condoning it, but that's the sort of thing that can happen when you scare people...

I don't wish to be a hyprocrite, so the above is purely just my humble opinion - it's not my place to tell you how to behave.

There are no police, roads policing has been dead in my area for many years, the only thing they do is speed camera vans and bikes in my area and this doesn't deal with bad driving or driving on facebook, just speed!

I drove up to Sheffield and Nottingham this weekend around 600 miles covered and the only police car I saw on the motorway was BTP KUGA. I drove on the m5, m42, m1 not a roads policing vehicle in site

I take your point that maybe I am not qualified or the person to give lectures and you may well be right. The issue I have generally is as a society we just turn the other cheek these days which for everyday driving mistakes is ok but I have seen people being attacked in the streets and people changing to the other side so they can ignore. Unfortunately the tory government seems hell bent and destroying the police so less and less can you rely on them.

[RobM77]

jbsportstech said:

RobM77 said:

I would suggest (humbly, and in my own opinion), that it is not your place to deliver lectures to complete strangers in the street on how to drive. In my personal opinion (and it is just my opinion), you have every right to defend yourself calmly and verbally if someone's just blatantly insulted you, but if someone's merely done something a bit daft or dangerous in a car whilst you're also driving your car, then that's what the police are for.

This is just a suggestion, but how about extending your more empathic approach towards women towards everyone: male, female, young, old etc? Just because someone is male doesn't mean they wouldn't be frightened if some great big guy (civilian, not policeman) gets out of his car and starts asking them for 'a chat' - I know I would! If you don't do it with women then I'm imagining you must have an idea of how scary it must be, so why not apply that empathy towards everyone? Lack of prejudice and fairness such as that is precisely why the law frown upon vigilantism, or related activities such as members of the public approaching strangers to give them lectures on the law - the police are highly trained and have well thought out procedures for engaging with the public - it's their job. Like anyone, I'm more than happy for a policeman to knock on my door or stop me on the road, but if a civilian does that, it's a very different matter. Recently we had a thread on GG where a guy 'having a word' was run over; I'm not condoning it, but that's the sort of thing that can happen when you scare people...

I don't wish to be a hyprocrite, so the above is purely just my humble opinion - it's not my place to tell you how to behave.

There are no police, roads policing has been dead in my area for many years, the only thing they do is speed camera vans and bikes in my area and this doesn't deal with bad driving or driving on facebook, just speed!

I drove up to Sheffield and Nottingham this weekend around 600 miles covered and the only police car I saw on the motorway was BTP KUGA. I drove on the m5, m42, m1 not a roads policing vehicle in site

I take your point that maybe I am not qualified or the person to give lectures and you may well be right. The issue I have generally is as a society we just turn the other cheek these days which for everyday driving mistakes is ok but I have seen people being attacked in the streets and people changing to the other side so they can ignore. Unfortunately the tory government seems hell bent and destroying the police so less and less can you rely on them.

Oh yes, I completely agree with that. In the 500-700 miles that I drive every week I virtually never see police cars. I can only speak reliably about the past week due to my rubbish memory, but for that period of time I can confidently say that I've only seen police vehicles when they're hidden trying to catch speeding drivers (always on wide straight roads near a transition from a 30 to a 50 or NSL, never at the school I pass each day...) or at the scenes of accidents.

However, I don't think this lack of police presence gives people the right to intimidate others by getting out of their car and 'having a word'. Even if you're not trying to intimidate, a big bloke getting out of a car and trying to talk to someone in another car is intimidating in our current society. What you describe above about not wanting to intimidate women is how I feel about everyone: male, female, young and old.

[TonyRPH]

jbsportstech said:

RobM77 said:

We never see any police cars...

But how many unmarked cars have you not seen do you think?

Because there seems to be a massive trend toward unmarked cars for road policing now - especially here in West Yorkshire.

[LordGrover]

Not much of a deterrent though. Most drivers keep to limits and drive with more care in the presence of a liveried police car.
I appreciate it shouldn't be necessary, but ...

[RobM77]

TonyRPH said:

jbsportstech said:

RobM77 said:

We never see any police cars...

But how many unmarked cars have you not seen do you think?

Obviously I have no idea at all